Looking for that deep detector?

[Hightone]

Reading through the many MD forums on the NET, it appears that most people are making a quest to finding the deepest seeking MD, and many wanting TID as well.

If there were one unit that was deepest with TID, everyone would have one. And if.........say.........Minelabs were deepest, we would all have Minelabs and no one would be selling or trading them to try and get something better. What becomes best is what you think is best for you.

As for Tesoro's, they are just as deep as anything out there in the standard price range. For every person that says they found clad left behind after using X brand, you will have X brand saying the same thing. Since depth seems to be the number one concern, it appears that there are a few things to consider that affect depth.

First is ground balance. As we all know, if the detector is not balanced properly, it is affecting the field like trying to see through a fog. Ground balancing makes the ground disappear so the field has a clear "view" of any other metal item. The more the ground balance is off, the thicker the fog, so to speak. Ground balance allows the already deep field to work efficiently.

Second is TID. When the internal program is set to attempt identifying a metal find, it has parameters it goes by. Changing ground balance affects these parameters. It's the reason that Tesoro does not have ground balance on their TID. Even the discrimination mode is slightly altered with ground balance, but not enough to notice change. This was even evident when Jabbo's recent post confirmed that altering the GB pot made the TID not work properly. Since Garrett uses segments rather than a TID number, their higher end units can still categorize the find to a segment, though the segment intervals change slightly with ground balance. Ground tracking is a technique to alter the TID automatically with the change in ground balance. All of these detract from depth just as an AC unit pulls power from a car. There is no TID that is better than anyone else's. There are too many varibles on how the find relates to the field in distance, position and sweep speed.

Clearly, all metal mode without TID interference would be the deepest mode. The Cortes and Deleon let the TID work in the all metal mode, so they are not going to be as deep as a Bandito II using the same coils. The Vaquero and Tejon have been found to be Tesoro's deepest detectors to date because of the reasons I displayed. Add to the the H.O.T. coil technology, and there isn't anything I have seen in the standard $400-$700 price range that can do any better.

To the new people..............if you want TID to start, you are going to give up some depth. This is not a bad thing, because once you get a handle on detecting, sound is the way to go. Trying "sound only" first may become disappointing as you will dig much more trash during your learning.

The best way to get deep is to drop TID, have the ability to balance out the ground minerals and use the all metal mode with a concentric coil of choice, preferably using Tesoro's H.O.T. technology.

Just my thoughts.

 

[BarberBill]

Good post, Hightone. I often think the quest for "deepest" is somewhat like a dog chasing its tail. Just how deep do most of us want to dig, anyway? There's a lot more to a detector than raw depth. Depth with poor retune time = difficult pinpointing and increased vulnerability to target masking. A heavy, cumbersome designed detector is no fun after an hour or more in the field. Too many of us don't really put in enough serious learning time with whatever detector we use, then get excited about whatever new or next model that somebody says is "deeper". Hunting technique is as important or maybe even more important, on average, concerning good finds than what machine is being used, assuming the targets are there in the first place. My two bits.
HH
BB

 

[jabbo]

Hightone, great info about TID, didn't know it reduced depth. My Golden operates at 10khz, same as my Cortes. But the Golden gets a little less depth then the Cortes, maybe the four tone circuit takes away some depth too. While testing my CZ7a in my test garden (soft mild soil) in Disc mode, I set the ground balance max negative, then max positive. I picked up the 6" deep quarter equally well with both settings, but the signal was a shorter beep with max negative GB setting.

 

[BarberBill]

I haven't experimented with measuring actual total depth with TID versus the same without, but I've read a number of times that TID machines will respond to a target considerably deeper than they can reliably ID it so I'm not sure TID alone causes a loss.. For what it's worth, I can say I've noticed my DeLeon is deeper in the local soil than my other umax machines. I've pondered whether that is due to the 8 AAs versus 1 nine volt or just differences in the circuitry. I'm not sure I want much more depth in most of the areas i coin shoot due to considerations of leaving the grass in as pristine shape as possible. In the country, at old homesteads, logging camp sites etc. where one can dig in with a shovel is a different story. My two bits again.
HH
BB

 

[Hightone]

The transmitter puts out much more than the receiver retrieves. My Deleon can pick up a can at 12 inches. When the TID is trying to decipher the signal, it pulls power from somewhere. Tesoro's 2 TID machines make sure the power is there by using 8 batteries.

It's not as much a power issue than a signal processing issue. If the unit only has to "tone",it is not as taxed as it is if it has to display and LCD image. Though this is done extremely fast, it still requires time and power from the circuit board. If you could disable the circuitry that drives the TID (not the just the display), I'll bet you could detect deeper with the Deleon as the field only has to "tone" on metal.

All in all, Vince has done a great job on the TID circuits while still allowing super fast retuning.

 

[marcomo]

And if.........say.........Minelabs were deepest, we would all have Minelabs and no one would be selling or trading them to try and get something better.

Not necessarily. Depth is just one part of the equation.

I don't know if Minelab is the deepest, but I'm seeing that they have a reputation for being very deep. Particularly the Explorers and the E-Trac.

But the downside is they have a longer learning curve than most, they're expensive, heavy, slow, and a number of Minelab users are less than pleased with their service department.

 

[rebelLT]

Depth, I think, can best be termed "usable depth", I've used alot of machines and can tell you for a fact that some can ID a coin, or certain object, better at depth. I have been suprised in the past to find that most machines with pick up deep desirable items, though they cant properly ID them as such. Another problem with depth is learning your machine well. I dont really think "Depth" is that much of a problem. If you wanted you could run a machine on all metal and dig everything up that made noise, you would make some amazing deep finds sure to impress. The problem is that most of us only have X amount of time to hunt and dont want to waist the better portion of our lives cleaning the metal bits and pulltabs from one old school yard in order to find a few deep coins. We WANT a machine to help us out.

I have a minelab and it is AWESOME at digging deep targets in trash infested, hard hunted old sites with the best tone ID and visual TID when using the smart screen. Of course the thing is heavy, ungainly, pinpoints like cr@p, requires a slow sweep speed, is impossible for most people to learn well, and has a very unimpressive battery life. This machine is far to heavy to swing around in a field for 4 or more hours.

I have an XLT that I use when I want to dig clad fast at newer sites. Well balanced, good battery life, dead on pinpoining, decent tone ID combined with great visual TID and awesome with a 5.3 coil. Plus, at a few hundred less than the DFX is is a bargain, as it will find ANYTHING that a dfx can. The drawback to this machine, like most of the whites machines that I have used, is that the TID is not usefull beyond 6.5 inches at best. Not a deep seeker, thoug a great overall machine.

I have a golden umax that I use for large open fields, wooded and rural areas that I havent pinpointed my exact hunting area in or that I am likely to find targets spread out over big areas. I know, not as deep as the all terrains or relic tesoro's. Why would I choose the umax? A machine that Tesoro sells as a coin hunter? 1. machine weight. 2. battery life. 3. Tone ID. Again, USABLE depth. I think the tone ID is more usefull (more usable depth) for my kinds of hunting. Of course I'm not a "relic hunter" that digs up every piece of iron I can get my coil over. which brings me to my point in all of this.

The best machine in the world wont find any deep, old coins unless you get your coil over them. Most of the mid to high price range machines on the market today are more than suitable to find small coins 6 or seven inches deep. In fact millions have been sold over the last 40 years or so. Dont waste your time buying an expensive "new" machine that you think you are going to head to the local park with and find a layer of undiscovered seated dimes ten inches deep. Your best bet is to get a decent machine, learn it, and stick with it. RESEARCH and hunt anywhere that you think might contain something. Dont be afraid to ask permission, knock on doors etc. You will be much more productive doing this than spending 1600 dollars on the newest "deep seeker" machine.

 

[nick hunter]

Good post, RebeLT.

I own a digital Minelab too, and just bought a Compadre.

Of course, I use those units in different hunting conditions.

I found coins and rings in the wet salt sand at up to 14" deep with the Minelab (our euro coins are larger than US ones), which is not bad at all, especially when considering that the ID, even that deep, is bang on ! The wet sand beaches are "clean" over here.

Unfortunately, this unit is not usable inland. It will null at the tiniest iron flake in the ground. At those places, the Compadre will do a better job.

There are several detector brands, each of rhem offering different useful accessories.

The main thing about all this is indeed not the depth, but it is matter of choosing the right equipment intended for the places and targets you hunt.

Not that easy to achieve !

HH

 

[Bill in Texas]

I have found some small gold items with a Vaquero following a couple of much more expensive detectors in the paces that I hunt. It really will sniff out small gold items better than any detector that I have had in my hands and I love it. I have a Toltec 100 with a notch that I use in places where there are pull tabs every 6 inches, but when I find good targets (gold or silver), I go back over the area with the V digging everything. As far as depth goes, the V has plenty for me and I have found a very small gold ring at about 7 or 8 inches. I also have found fine chains with it that most detectors won't even read. Bill in Texas

 

[Gunnar MN]

My musketeer , can whith ease and some room to spare pick up a dime at 10" deep using the 10" coil in all metal if you want something deep in tesoro i would try out the vaqero,

 

[comcat]

well done guys,very interesting input,,what i would like to add is that the cibola,which i have ,and the vachero are both opperating on quietened down tejon HOT cicuitry,,and are brilliant performers,,,use a g,t, too,and thats awesome in its place,,,but a good way to get 20%-25% more out of these guys is to fit a 12 x 10 d.d. coil,,its magic,,works also on salt wet,,,AND finds exactly the same size and type of coins the stock coil does,,,and in naily areas,,,the recovery speed after iron will astound you,,,,have mine fitted with a 10 turn ground bal also,,,,can pick up a large george 111 copper at 50,cm,,,,and tesoros just love gold,,,(if you would like to see this working,,go on youtube,,look for cibola test,,and you will see this Italin guy using the same machine as mine),,,awesome,,rgds ,,,comcat

 

[Furious T]

This has been a great post guys, like reading a chapter of a good book. Thanks all.

 

[David]

"The Vaquero and Tejon have been found to be Tesoro's deepest detectors to date because of the reasons I displayed. Add to the the H.O.T. coil technology, and there isn't anything I have seen in the standard $400-$700 price range that can do any better."

"well done guys,very interesting input,,what i would like to add is that the cibola,which i have ,and the vachero are both opperating on quietened down tejon HOT cicuitry,,and are brilliant performers,,,"

1) The Vaquero(14 kHz) uses on 9V and the Tejon(17 kHz) uses 8AA batteries. Does the Tejon have the same depth, or a bit more depth than the Vaquero ?? "IF" more, how much % more ?

2) Also the Vaquero is 2.2 pounds and the Tejon is 2.98 pounds. Is most of this extra weight of the Tejon under the rear arm support battery compartment and NOT in the control head itself ?? Thank You!

I feel that Tesoro should have made the Vaquero and the Tejon the same operating kHz so they could use the same coils.

Also I agree about the 12 x 10 d.d. coil.

 

[lurksalot]

Actually, the Vaquero and Tejon do use the same coils.

 

[Onus]

I was a died in the wool Garrett user until I watched a guy with a Tesoro Cibola go over an area I had hunted with my GTI 2500. He pulled about 4 silver coins out of an area where I had pulled a couple dollars worth of clad. Most of my clad was at 5" or less. He went to 8 or 9" for a couple of the silvers that didn't even show on my 2500. Talk about disappointed! I thought I had top of the line until I saw this. Now I have a simple Silver Umax that has got down to the deeper silver a couple of times and I am amazed at what this little inexpensive detector can do. Nothing fancy, just finds "stuff"! I also sold my 2500 and got a Minelab Safari and I'm still learning it as it is a bit different than anything else I have used, but already found a dime at 9" with it and it was masked by another piece of metal. Onus

 

[David]

Yes I got rid of my Garrett GTI 2500 also as I was very disappointed with it too.

The very good Minelab Safari is FBS machine, yes very deep, but all FBS and BBS machines are very slow sweep moving to get the depth. So you will not cover as much ground in a day as a single frequency VLF.

 

[rmptr]

It would be difficult to determine the deepest machine under all circumstances.

Tejon, CZ's, InfiniumLS, SovereignGT, GT2500 and a number of others are surely in the running !

Good luck !
rmptr

 

[Neil]

"The Vaquero and Tejon have been found to be Tesoro's deepest detectors to date because of the reasons I displayed. Add to the the H.O.T. coil technology, and there isn't anything I have seen in the standard $400-$700 price range that can do any better."

"well done guys,very interesting input,,what i would like to add is that the cibola,which i have ,and the vachero are both opperating on quietened down tejon HOT cicuitry,,and are brilliant performers,,,"

1) The Vaquero(14 kHz) uses on 9V and the Tejon(17 kHz) uses 8AA batteries. Does the Tejon have the same depth, or a bit more depth than the Vaquero ?? "IF" more, how much % more ?

2) Also the Vaquero is 2.2 pounds and the Tejon is 2.98 pounds. Is most of this extra weight of the Tejon under the rear arm support battery compartment and NOT in the control head itself ?? Thank You!

I feel that Tesoro should have made the Vaquero and the Tejon the same operating kHz so they could use the same coils.

Also I agree about the 12 x 10 d.d. coil.

David, lurksalot is correct. The Vaquero and Tejon use the same coils as well as the Cibola and Lobo ST.
The Tejon is heavier but does offer better balance because of the batteries under the armrest. even with the stock 9x8 coil on the vaquero/cibola they felt a little nose heavy to me.
I compared them with a thin buried 14k ring in my back yard at various depths and the Tejon is deeper, at least the one I had versus the Vaquero I had. I would say it was by 2", thats gonna vary from place to place though. I beach hunted both detectors and the Tejon consistently found deeper coins more often on the same beaches.
Neil

 

[Willee - Texas]

No VLF can detect as deep as a PI.
If you want max depth and that is all you are after then your choice becomes simple.
You want the baddest PI detector money can buy.
I hope you have deep pockets.

Willee

 

[silversmith]

Well, I have doubts about detector multi-tasking taking power away from anything. Hey, if your detector was busy making submarine sandwichs on the side, all that should happen is your batteries will go down quicker. Ya know, subs on the side don't sound bad. Drinks would be nice too, but that'd make the detector too heavy.
Now on depth, I hunt for gold in all metals with my Lobo ST. I'd carry around a car battery for a little more depth. Give me more depth!
Hey willee, how much gold you gotta find each month, too make payments on your P.I.