Looking for advice on pinpointing.

[Mick in Dubbo]

I've started to experiment using the advice that I've read and been given about how to pinpoint the Ace using the standard method (centre of the coil).
Is it necessary to hold the coil 4 to 6 inches off the ground to make the pinpoint work?
When hitting the pinpoint button a few times over the target, it seems to narrow the pinpoint down to a usable size, but it sounds like the target is nulled as if it were an overload signal. Is this how it's supposed to be done?
The only way I can get the target to show up in the cut out in the middle of the coil is by sliding the coil back towards me till I start to get a signal; I don't seem to be able to slide it forward as it gives off too much signal in the front half of the coil. Is this the correct method of pinpointing with it, or am I doing it wrong?
Thanks for any input.
Mick Evans.

 

[Dick from IA]

So it isn't just me, Mick. Glad you made this post as the more I experiment with the different tips on pinpointing the worse I get at it.

Maybe this will clear up with more advice from the Garrett experts here.

 

[khouse]

I pinpoint just in front of the little half moon cut out on the coil. I first detune the target - the nulling effect you spoke of. Then I find the center left and right. Lets say that tone is 2 inches wide. Set the coil in the center of that never releasing the pinpoint button. Then slide the coil up and down. This tone will be longer because the shape of the coil. Lets say it's 3.5 inches. Slide the coil to the center. Then left and right just for good measure. Then I dig a 3.5 inch plug and usually it's there. Unless it's on edge somewhat. While doing the pinpointing always scrub the ground with the coil. It's not fool proof. Garrett made the coil oval to cover a bit more ground by widening the cone effect under the coil. But in some ways if they switched to concentric coils there would be zero issues with pinpointing.

 

[Parkit]

I'm certainly no expert but have dug 600+ coins in the two weeks I've had my ACE 250. I assume you're using the stock coil. What I've found to work best for me is to sweep back and forth a few times after getting the original hit, and I've found that the tones come to either side of the target, not on top of it. I move the coil off to one side, off the target, and press pinpoint. Now the tone WILL come over the target, a smaller area for smaller targets and a larget area for larget targets. I'm still sweeping the coil doing this, and at this point I usually have an area of 4-6" and the target lies somewhere inside of that. While I have the pinpoint button pressed, I'll slowly move OFF what I think is the center of this smaller area, release the pinpoint button and then press it again. This is the de-tuning method you may have heard about.
About 75% of the time when I re-press the pinpoint button in this manner, I will only get a tone (lower volume than before) in one side of my headphones. When that happens I simply continue to hold the pinpoint button, slowly work the coil over the target area and watch the bars, and when I get all the bars lit up I slowly slide the coil back towards me. As soon as the tone stops, the target is directly under the top of the inner loop of the coil.
I have tried pinpointing using the little cutout in the coil above the stem, but I found that what I was doing was simply trying to judge the loudest, strongest tone. It's a lot easier to tell when the tone STOPS altogether.
Pinpointing for me is the same with the stock coil and the larger 9x12, while the Sniper coil has an "X" on top of the solid coil itself that marks the spot. That's another reason a lot of people prefer the Sniper coil, it's a lot easier to pinpoint in addition to "going around the trash".

Hope this helps instead of confuses.

Steve

 

[bcoop]

MIke:
I use a GTI 2500 and a GTI 1500. When I locate a target I pull the head away about 6 or so inches away from the signal and then press my pinpoint button and slowly move the head toward the target area. As I do this my signal starts to get stronger and the bars will move to the far right showing full signal. My target is 99.9% of the time in the circle cut out of my coil. I don't have the new PROformance coil I have the original coil that came with my detector it is a solid coil with about a 1 1/2 inch hole in the center. I have never used the 250 but I would think your target would be just in front of your coil shaft and in the center of the coil. One good way to test this would be to take a piece of card board and poke a hole through it in several various places and on one side tape some coins of diferent types centered over the holes, on the other side tape some plastic poker chips over the center of the hole that way you can see exactly where the coin is. Then you can run your machine over the poker chips and with a little practice you should be able to pin point with accuracy. It will take several trips to the field to get good and the more you use your machine the better you will become. I would recomend you do your testing outside and not on the living room carpet too may nails etc in your floor. Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[NM5K]

Yea, I do it the way you do. I pull the coil back
until the tone quits. That places the target just
in front of the inner coil. The sniper is the only
coil I use the center. The reason I don't use the center
of the two larger coils is because it's less precise.
You are having to judge what is the middle of the two
directions, and it's not always ultra precise if the
pinpoint tone seems "large". Like you say, the cutoff
of the tone is more precise. That covers your fore/aft
directions, but also using the top corner of the coil
is more precise for the right/left directions cuz the
coil is smallest there. So the tone is at it's narrowest,
and most precise. This is easy to see if you compare the
right/left tone width at the top of the coil to the middle
of the coil. The middle will be wider, cuz naturally it's
following the shape of the coil. The way I do it pretty
much matches khouse's method, except once I get the middle
lined out, I then pull it back to see where my cutoff
point is. Once I see that, then I double check the side
to side once again to make sure I'm in the middle, "should
seem narrow", and then pull it back till the tone quits.
The target will be right in front of the inner coil.
At least half the time I can stab the target/coin and hit
it with the probe first time.
If I used the middle of the coil to pinpoint, I'd be way less
precise, and have to dig bigger holes.
I use the middle of the sniper, as it's made that way, and
is round, and is smaller. Pinpointing with it's middle "X" is
pretty precise if you are careful to get in the middle with
both directions.
Here is an old pix I made a few months ago to show the pattern.
The gray oval is the tone. In the pix, the coil is pulled back
and hears no tone. But you can see if I pulled the coil
forward a bit, I pass into the gray oval, and would start to
hear the tone. Anytime you hear the tone, that means the coin
is under the inner coil somewhere.
MK

 

[Uncle Willy]

You don't hold the coil off the ground to pinpoint. Who gave you that info? Flat on the ground to pinpoint. May be most of your problems. When you detune correctly nothing should change except the target grows smaller.

When pinpointing shallow targets, 2-3 inches, ( watch the depth on your display ) drag the coil back until the instant the signal stops and the target will be under the center front tip of the inside oval. As targets get deeper they move back from that spot towards the center of the coil. As a rule of thumb, for every extra two inches in depth the hotspot moves back an inch or so.

Have you taped coins to the back of a piece of cardboard and practiced pinpointing? That's one way to find out how the target travels backwards with depth. With this test you can raise the coil to assimilate depth.

Bill

 

[Uncle Willy]

The only problem with that is the difference in coils and the fact the GTI coil has two receivers as opposed to only one on the 250. THe GTI's are a snap to pinpint with. The 250 coil also throws a completely different signal pattern.

Bill

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Thanks heaps everybody for replying. There were some ripper posts to read! It good to see the slightly different way in which we approach pinpointing and learn from it. Perhaps we should ask ourselves some obvious questions about how we do things and learn from each other!
I usually use the centre and slide technique, I am just trying to get a handle on how to pinpoint using the cut out in the middle of the coil.
Using some of the info I've pick up, I went out today and practiced pinpointing via detuning and using the cut out. Seemed to be working it out now. I pulled up a heap of pull tabs today and most of them were smack bang in the cut out or very close (less than an inch).
What I was doing once I'd found the target, was hit pinpoint as usual and then detuned (pressed pinpoint while over the target), then I'd centre the target, I'd slide the target forward till the target disappeared. Once the signal had stopped, I'd slowly slide the coil back toward myself till the signal came back. Then I would let the coil come back about a quarter of an inch from the moment I got the first sound. That usually puts the target smack bang in the middle of the cut out.
Give it a try and let us know how you get on.
Cheers
Mick Evans.

 

[Dick from IA]

Thank you, Mick, for starting this thread and to all who have added suggestions. Guess I'll try the cardboard sytem to practice as the reality of winter is finally setting in here:sad:. Might get out yet today, but the forecast now is for normal January conditions, which means frozen ground. Oh Well, it's been fun while it lasted.

Off and on I've considered the GTI-1500 to replace my XTerra 70, with the easy pinpointing being one of many reasons. Pinpointing is probably what I like best on the XTerra, but I still prefer swinging the little Ace 250 and missing on pinpoint once in awhile, vs. all the minor setting adjstments to fool with on the X70 (always wonder if it's set right) With the Ace it's pretty much turn on and go.

 

[bcoop]

Mick:
Sounds like you have got if figured out and working on fine tuning your skills. I grew up following my grandfather using an old whites analog machine and watching and helping him dig up silver. About 5 years ago and 35 years old I was yearning to get a detector and became a Garrett dealer. I went straight to a GTI 2500. The first time out I could not hardly find anything I would dig and there was nothing. I found that the target would be 2 or 3 inches to the left or right or forward or behind my dig site. I read the book studied the video and the book did recommend several hours of use before you started learning your machine.The first time out I thought I had a 1,000.00 piece of junk. Looking back I may have been better off with a lower end machine but I wanted the best. I learned by trial and error and now I am confident and proud of my choice. Good luck and keep digging.

 

[Uncle Willy]

I ran into a lot of that on the Garrett Classroom, users who basically overloaded their butts by buying more machine than they were prepared for. No one first starting out should ever purchase a professional grade machine to cut their teeth on. They should pick up an entry level machine, learn it and the raw basics of detecting then move up.

It's like buying a 747 to train in for your first pilots license. And too many folks fall for the ad hype that gives one the illusion that all they have to do is get a fancy detector, wave it over the ground, and riches will abound. Like those stupid White commercials on TV. They ruin the hobby for more people than you can count but all they care about is peddling detectors. I'm glad Garrett doesn't do that crap.

Bill

 

[Uncle Willy]

Tip Of The Day

Yeah pinpointing with any GTI is a piece of cake and dead on. You can practically do it blindfolded. One thing I discovered with the GTI's when I field tested them way back when was the unique sensitivity of the sides of the coil whereas they would detect coins laying on the ground under the grass four inches or so out from the hole you just dug and would read the target as if it was still in the hole, even if it was never in the hole. So if I get a tricky signal like that I move away from the hole and scan all around it 4-6 inches out. This accounts for a lot of the phantom signals that never get recovered with GTI's.

I got so frustrated one day trying to find a phantom signal with my 1500 that I was about to stomp it into the ground - then this unique aspect dawned on me and I found four quarters laying flat on the ground beneath tall grass about 4-5 inches out from the edge of the hole I had dug. Found a ten-quarter spill in a ballfield some time ago that reacted just like that. Just remember how your coil reacts when you get within 12-16 inches of metal playground equipment. Works the same way on unburied coins.

Bill

 

[tucky_tector]

Since Garrett came out with the Ace 250, Whites has to try other methods to sell their machines. The "Yeller Feller" seems to be takin the market.
KY Bud

 

[wag-jr]

the way i figured out the best way to pinpoint was going to the lakes swim beach and dug everything i hit on pulltabs,foil you name it.after going and doing this a few times i became very adept at pinpointing my targets and it made detecting much more enjoyable.i don't think there is anything better than time spent learning your machine

 

[NM5K]

I've had a few "phantom" holes... :/
I had one in the backyard I never did find..
Finally gave up as I was digging out too big
a hole in the yard.. But I kept getting a good
signal, both ID, and pinpoint... Or I thought.
I dug to the middle, dug to the right, to the left,
deeper, bigger.....I pinpointed it about 42 times,
and the same place every time..But I never found
anything but dirt. Dang...
I finally said this was a waste of time, and went
after new targets. Probably was part of a rusty nail
or something, and it fell apart when I was digging
or something along those lines. Rusty nails hit pretty
hot as rust is very conductive, and it was hitting about
at the "25c" tab.
MK