Looking for advice on interpreting iffy signals

[TrpnBils]

I read something recently that said that strong, solid coin signals only account for "a small percentage" of coins that are in the ground, and the rest were iffy signals next to iron or other junk. I'm still learning my CTX and usually run it in combined audio with little discrimination and smooth response in either ferrous-coin or ground-coin. I'm coming off of two years with the Etrac and I only can make it out 3-4 hours per week, but so far my finds have gone down the toilet with the CTX. Mostly I'm having trouble interpreting iffy signals around iron. I get a lot of vertical trails with the target trace, which are allegedly indicative of iron and a good target, but I find myself recovering a horrendous amount of nails when I hardly ever recovered them with the Etrac.

One other thing I've noticed is that the numbers are all over the place when I do dig coins.... zinc pennies are showing up as 45s and 46s on a pretty regular basis and the one silver coin I've dug in the past two months was in the low 40s.

What should I be looking for on my screen in areas with iron when I'm looking for coins and getting mixed signals? Or...better yet, how do I differentiate between falsing and mixed target signals on the screen?

 

[flysar]

I almost missed a 43' Walking Liberty Half at 3-4" because of a iron mixed iffy signal. If it squeaks a high tone somewhere in my headset I check it again at 90 deg and if it's in the same area I dig it.

I read in Andy's book on the CTX that if it takes longer to analyze than to remove the object you're wasting time... I've adopted that theory.

If you don't have Andy's book I'd recommend getting one. I had my CTX for 2 years before the book was out and I still picked up a few tips.

HH

 

[CCadrin]

I am just a beginner with the CTX but here is my approach. Maybe someone with more experience can reply and correct or add to the approach.

Right now I am only hunting in 'ferrous coin' and occasionally double check with 'high trash' in my user defined previous mode. I'll go very slow waiting to I hear a tone. I then try to center in and lock in by doing the wiggle. For me, anything within 6 inches will lock in into the ranges I am looking for. Anything deeper may be iffy. If I see numbers 12-10 thru 12-13 (nickels), 12-29-thru 12-50 (Indian heads, Lincolns, zincolns, dimes. quarters, silver) flash across the screen. For me the ferrous number is the one that moves the most on the iffy (away from the '12' ferrous line). If the conductive number is with my ranges I'll dig it. Also, make sure your trace is set. As you wiggle the location on the screen will get colored in.

 

[sube]

Check my post out that says no audio read all the post first I have added some more imfo then read hunting in trash you well have a better understanding of what's going on sube

 

[TrpnBils]

If you don't have Andy's book I'd recommend getting one. I had my CTX for 2 years before the book was out and I still picked up a few tips.

HH

It's funny....I have had Andy's book for longer than I've had the CTX and have read it cover to cover two or three times and referenced specific parts on multiple occasions and I still think his Etrac book was WAY more informative than this one. I'm a little disappointed with it.

 

[CT Todd]

I read in Andy's book on the CTX that if it takes longer to analyze than to remove the object you're wasting time... I've adopted that theory.

If you don't have Andy's book I'd recommend getting one.

HH

That's the best information

Just dig it is what I do.

 

[Jason in Enid]

This is one of the most common questions for the CTX. When you are looking for good items mixed with iron, use a lot of small coil wiggles, watch the ground and use your pinpoint! If the target sounds off in the same spot while moving the coil, its worth digging. Iron falses as the coil is moving away from the target, so iron targets will appear to jump back and forth several inches as you swing. When you pinpoint, if you get NO SIGNAL from where you got your target, it's iron. If you have any pinpoint signal at all over the coin signal spot, its worth digging. Good targets next to iron can cause pinpoint problems because it will be "pulling" your pinpoint over to the iron center, that is why if you have any amount of pinpoint over the spot you got the solid signal you should dig. Some times I will dig "ifffy" if they sound off most of the time and have a definite iron next to them. You will dig more iron, but you will also get some coins that nobody else will.

As for the concept that it takes less time to dig than to analyze, that may be true. When I hunt fields, I don't quibble about quality, if it beeps I dig. I can't do that in town. If I'm in somebody's yard or a park it can be destructive to dig every iffy target. A little analysis can keep the landowner happy!

 

[ironman200081]

If you get consistent audio tones both ways at 90 degrees and if pinpoint is close, dig it. Go by tone, as iron (and your search mode settings) may affect the visual target ID. I came to the CTX nearly 4 years ago from the E-Trac. E-Trac would often reward me when I dig iffy signals, CTX does not. Iffy signals that do not produce consistent 2-way audio tones at 90 degrees are always rusty, bent iron. Despite my experience with the machine, I still find myself digging them at times, mostly when I am bored and not hitting any good signals. I have named the phenomena "E-Trac Fatigue" in honor of the old machine.

One tip that helps with isolating a good target among iron where the iron pulls your pinpoint off target is the Minelab wiggle-back method. Andy mentions it in his E-Trac book, not sure on the CTX book because I do not own it. I have had success with wiggle-back pinpointing in iron-laden areas and even with the 17-inch coil.

The CTX is a very smart machine, and it knows when it hits a nonferrous object.

 

[amberjack]

maybe you got it all with the etrac ? good headphones are a must have and go slow check out each signal as said above the pin point thing works, and well sube is a freak of nature we all have something to learn there with the no audio thing, will be checking that out and see how I go next time out, cant argue with the results he is showing in the video.

for me detecting is all about confidence in the machine and then in myself, go where you have the best chance of finding coins and start there, if we keep hitting duck eggs its normal to wonder "what am I doing wrong" and sometimes the answer is nothing there's just nothing there !!

ctx is made to run an open screen and if its made that way take advantage of that as we all know disc masks targets, set up the bins for the type of coins you hunt if its silver test the coins see where they come in and use the bins to help as best you can to find them, not sure what your ground is like but I bought a ctx cause it has ferrous coin if I wanted to use high trash I would have kept my etrac.

if there are not many coins left we have to go slow and well minelabs especially the ctx are made for going slow can near have the coil not moving and in some cases this is a huge advantage from other brands.

sure there's a lot of good info to read around here and well we cant do it all but we can take some little things to help us and its not about being perfect its about having fun so relax and take time to listen to the detector, and in the ctx's case look at the screen, try taking it out at night it really does bring this detector life it is a night owl

but most of don't stress and have fun we find what we are meant too

AJ

 

[underwatermetalman]

I have had tremendous success finding silver in trash laden areas, last year I found 60 silvers. I am finding them next to trash mostly nails and other iron items that want to null. I listen for a high tone I then work the signal rotating around the target. I often dig bent nails that sound off similar to deep silver targets. Last week I found a silver washington down about 7 inches at an angle approximately thirty degrees, pinpointing didn't work, I had a repeatable signal in one direction only.
I find ferrous/coin works better in our highly mineralized frozen tundra soil here in Minnesota.
I have used an Etrac over the past five years, I find the CTX does a better job at sniffing out coins amongst the trash and is better at finding them on edge or at an angle.

UWMM

 

[TrpnBils]

I have had tremendous success finding silver in trash laden areas, last year I found 60 silvers. I am finding them next to trash mostly nails and other iron items that want to null. I listen for a high tone I then work the signal rotating around the target. I often dig bent nails that sound off similar to deep silver targets. Last week I found a silver washington down about 7 inches at an angle approximately thirty degrees, pinpointing didn't work, I had a repeatable signal in one direction only.
I find ferrous/coin works better in our highly mineralized frozen tundra soil here in Minnesota.
I have used an Etrac over the past five years, I find the CTX does a better job at sniffing out coins amongst the trash and is better at finding them on edge or at an angle.

UWMM

How often do you figure you get a coin that only gives a good one-way signal? I dug one last week on a whim like that and it was a large cent out of an area I have absolutely hammered with the Etrac...dozens of hunts over 2 years. It's the most iron nail-laden site I've ever been to. Makes me wonder what else I've passed over...

 

[sube]

Jason said ( Good targets next to iron can cause pinpoint problems because it will be "pulling" your pinpoint over to the iron center )

I make statements like this all the time it's the opposite of this especially when I don't proof read what I write . sube

Now if you watch the video with the nail and pencil lines , look where that nail is giving a signal east west it will be 3 inches left or right of the target this is where the little balls come together on the bottom of the screen you are pinpointing a false so you really can't pinpoint this hit regardless if it has a coin or not the signal is being push to the side by the nail .This same thing happens when the coin is not under the nail it can be 3 to 6 inches away from the center of the nail say south of center or north of center so that nail has created a dead spot about 12 inch circle where you can't pinpoint .


Now if you turn 90 degrees to the target north south you can pinpoint the nail to find center push the coil north and south till your in the middle of the target now you no how that nail is laying .The north south hit well let you see the target dime or other non-ferrous object under the nail or 3 to 6 inches away in this dead spot and you should be getting audio now , if not then the coin is mask the other way but if its masked the other way it well pinpoint closer to center as compared to a signal nail . Watch video with the nails that are crossed in a x .

So you found a questionable signal it's a double grunt by turning 90 degrees it gives you a 1 grunt or high tone or a signal you can't determine this is where you look with target trace to see if that signal has a non- ferrous target with it .

When a target can't be heard either way but target trace is seeing it , east west hit ids well be lower than north south so co #s for a east west hit will read 18 to 38 where as north south hits well read where they are suppose to but be off 1 to4 #s either way.

I have found out more information how target trace acts compared to audio . Digger has informed me that they are different from each other separate but are tied together when deployed target trace was to show you the location of the cursor on the screen leaving it there for a short while so you could see it .

You can see this with a simple test by rejecting the whole screen and putting it to light grey . now you have blocked all audio but trace is still working so it is independent of audio .
Still working on this but with snow on the ground again can't get out sube

 

[sube]

Ironman said (and your search mode settings) may affect the visual target ID.)

No they won't they only effect the audio vid .

Remember these are different disc circuits audio disc and target trace disc .So if you reject the whole screen being disc out the trace will still be working .That's why I did the nail pencil thing to show you in both videos . You have to understand what the iron is doing once you understand what the iron is doing you will be much more efficient in hunting in the trash . It's just not nails you have to contend with bottle caps tabs and other iron objects close to the surface will all give you a 3 hit on a pass just like a coin on the surface one hit leading edge of coil real hit center of coil and another hit as the trailing edge go's over the target.so there's more to it than just the nail .However the surface targets will not display this once at depth but iron continues to display this at depth. sube

 

[sube]

Trpnbils said

One other thing I've noticed is that the numbers are all over the place when I do dig coins.... zinc pennies are showing up as 45s and 46s on a pretty regular basis and the one silver coin I've dug in the past two months was in the low 40s.



When a target can't be heard either way but target trace is seeing it , east west hit ids well be lower than north south so co #s for a east west hit will read 18 to 38 where as north south hits well read where they are suppose to but be off 1 to 4 #s either way.

sube

 

[underwatermetalman]

Sube,
you are absolutely correct assuming that you have passed over good targets, I have. I am learning to slow down, dig more, and look for the iffy targets that are difficult to pinpoint or isolate. I can count on one hand the number of silvers I have found that were isolated , the greater majority have been finessing the signal and listening for the hint of a high tone. I am not much of a screen watcher, when I do check I have found good targets from 12-23 Fe and from 35-48 Co. I have not had zincs hit above 37, coppers typically hit in the 41-43 range, silver dimes in the 41-46 range and silver quarters in the 43-48 range. I find ferrous/coin works best for me, auto +3 coin mode

HH

UWMM

 

[TrpnBils]

I can count on one hand the number of silvers I have found that were isolated

I'm by no means saying I don't believe you, this statement though seems nuts to me because those types of signals are virtually the only way I can find silver....which probably explains why my total for silver is only 49 in 2 years with the Etrac and the past couple of months with the CTX here. I've got to be missing stuff because I'm not interpreting correctly what the machine is telling me.

 

[ironman200081]

Ironman said (and your search mode settings) may affect the visual target ID.)

No they won't they only effect the audio vid .

Remember these are different disc circuits audio disc and target trace disc .So if you reject the whole screen being disc out the trace will still be working .That's why I did the nail pencil thing to show you in both videos . You have to understand what the iron is doing once you understand what the iron is doing you will be much more efficient in hunting in the trash . It's just not nails you have to contend with bottle caps tabs and other iron objects close to the surface will all give you a 3 hit on a pass just like a coin on the surface one hit leading edge of coil real hit center of coil and another hit as the trailing edge go's over the target.so there's more to it than just the nail .However the surface targets will not display this once at depth but iron continues to display this at depth. sube

Respectfully disagree with you. I have experienced in the past nearly 4 years with the CTX (got mine in the first wave, Memorial Day Weekend 2012) that the TID numbers will be off on desirable targets surrounded by iron, particularly lower conductors. For example, one site that I hunt was a Civil War cavalry camp and it is laden with iron, so bad that you can hardly get the machine out of null in discrimination. Cuff eagle buttons are typically 12-13 via air or in ground without iron nearby. However, they will read up to 18 through 22 on the Fe number and 20-24 in the CO number in the iron forest. When I recover them and air test, back at 12-13.

Also, monkeying with settings does affect TID at depth (6" or deeper, irrespective of iron).

For clarification, I was referring to TID, not target trace. I would agree that the trace spot is "accurate" even when TID is off. Taking the same eagle cuff button example, the fuzzy target trace red blob will still be centered in the 12-13 area while I am getting TID numbers of 18-22.

 

[sube]

I'm not really grasping what your disagreeing on are we talking audio or target trace .

For clarification, I was referring to TID, not target trace. I would agree that the trace spot is "accurate" even when TID is off. Taking the same eagle cuff button example, the fuzzy target trace red blob will still be centered in the 12-13 area while I am getting TID numbers of 18-22.

Remember audio and target trace are separate without target trace engaged you still will get a cursor where the target is located on the screen .On deep items 7 to 8 inches target trace looses it's punch and may not colour any of the cursor but audio is still working to max depth . Now if you reject the whole screen you will get no audio at all but target trace is still working okay.

Remember east west hits give a lower #s wise location on the screen north south hits will give a higher or lower # on the screen but only about 1 to 4 #s either way. So a north south hit will give truer #s than a east west hit . You really can't tell what the target is but looking at what happens on the east west hits compared to the north south hits one gets a general idea of what the location is on the screen . So if the cursor or blob is on the 12 line you at least know there is a non ferrous target with the iron .

As far as TID #s being 18 to 22 on a 12-13 this will very depending on angle of approach and how well the target is mast with iron .And as far as target trace being accurate it won't be because it is also seeing a blended target so it will not place the target in the true location on the screen . sube

 

[masterjedi]

Don't take this the wrong way... but have any of you decided to stay or go back to the Etrac? That's a lot of guessing and digging only iron to find the occasional coin.

 

[underwatermetalman]

The only point I am illustrating is most easy target silvers in pounded parks are found, what is left are the iffy targets often masked by iron or something else. I say forget the FeCo numbers and listen for tones. I often dig nails and other bad targets as I am fooled by the quick signal which is what I listen for. I am occasionally rewarded with silver... which is good enough for me. my screen is failing and I won't get it repaired until after this season. I expect my ear to become acutely tuned as I progress through the season.


UWMM