Looking for a FAST Salt Beach machine...

[seahunter34]

I'm in Washington State and want to hit our Pacific Ocean beaches from Washington down to Oregon, in search of possible shipwreck coins. The beaches are vast, so I want to be able to cover some ground in wet salt sand. I have an Infinium PI, custom Excalibur and custom Explorer XS. But all of these machines require a slower sweep speed.

So I'm thinking about 2 machines, the BHID 300 and CZ 21 with 10 inch coil. I believe both are faster responding machines. My thinking is to hunt near max sens in the AM mode, then check targets in Disc. I hear the BHID goes crazy deep and the CZ a great reputation too. Which of these 2 VLF machines would cover ground faster, while still hitting targets? I also have a new to me splash-proof CZ70 Pro that I could get a 10 inch coil for. But something tells me the BHID 300 is the way to go?

Now to stir the pot a bit. There could be lots of black sand/iron in the matrix that possibly could render a vlf useless in areas. I'm not sure about that. But if so, then I would turn to a PI and have the idea that the Whites DF is a faster responding PI? Is there a better PI to cover ground on a big beach than the Dual Field? Thanks, SH34.

 

[crusher28]

I use the CZ21 for years and love it. Your choice is good either one is a great machine. Always hard to tell someone what to use but top of the line detectors are your best choice

 

[Stevo]

Tesoro Sand Shark

 

[tvr]

I've got a CZ and a Sand Shark and neither performs well with fast sweep speed. Both get best depth and target response with slower sweep speeds; comparable to what I am finding with respect to sweep speed with the newer to me Excalibur.

If you want to cover the beach faster with a faster responding detector, may want to consider an F75. Down side to an F75 is that it takes frequent attending to ground balance to keep it deep, but you can swing it fast and get good target response at good depth running in all metal mode. You learn to identify iron by the sound and ID readings. It is not water proof, but does the job for wet sand as long as you don't have any high crashing waves coming in on you.

Personally, I do better focusing on finding promising areas such as low spots and cuts or scalloped out areas and working them well and not worrying about covering it all. The detectors you list should handle the selective hunting scenario very well.

Just my two cents.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[mudpuppy]

I've got a CZ 20 and an F70. The F70 is very light, and VERY fast on the beach. LIke TVR said... If you need to cover a lot of sand very quickly without wearing out your swinging arm, the F70/75 would be hard to beat. You can extend the lower rod as far as possible, drop your hand off the grip, go into a beach prowl crouch, and cut a 10' swath. I set up disc at 1, Delta Pitch tones on the F70, or like tvr said, stay in alllmetal until you hit. Covering lots of sand quickly, yet still effectively, is a different type of hunting altogether. Its certainly differrent than water hunting, and requires LIghtness, Speed, the right footwear, (barefoot seems to be the best for me) It is very physically demanding, you really have to carry a small water bottle, light scoop, cant start carrying all the junk you find either, etc. Night hunting is a dream, just take a small light that clips onto the front of your shirt, but leave it off until you need it (if ever) you'd be surprised how your ears become your eyes at night, and you are scooping targets without any problem in the dark with no light..
One thing, after about three months straight of hitting the sand every morning and covering 5 miles of it before the sun comes up, you will be in very excellent shape, but very happy to get off of it for a while and hunt something a little less strenuous with more targets...like totlots!.
Mud

 

[Stevo]

I understand your aim but must admit it always makes me chuckle when I go to metal detecting rallies and see the "racing snakes" streaking off around the fields with coils whizzing from side to side trying to cover as much ground as possible and invariably finding nothing much.
I know some detectors are faster than others but you have to be sensible about it and give the electronics a fighting chance. My Sand Shark may not be the fastest but its faster than the Sov Elite I used to use. That doesn't mean I whip up and down the beach with it though. I agree with tvr - you'd probably get better results by reading the beach, identifying likely spots and working these thoroughly rather than trying to get from one end to the other in short order. You've got some decent machines there, let them do their job. The grass isn't always greener you know !

 

[mudpuppy]

You can read it, or grid it, just as long as you are out there with something you are comfortable with. It changes constantly, and you cant find anything in the house, so whatever you do, you just gotta get out there and keep that coil moving. There was a good beach hunting site called "The Golden Olde" written by Norm Garnush, I hope you can find that and read it. Stevo, I must admit I'm a racing snake on the sand, but I'm after fresh drops, and smoke jump from towel spot, to cut out, to anything that looks promising. Its through necessity rather than choice, once the sun comes up, its in the water with the CZ 20 to take it easy and work it good. Its good to have a sport that allows completely different styles of pursuit, and to be able to change them as the situation dictates.
Mud,

 

[OldBeechnut]

Allmetal/PP with the Excalibur you should be able to go as fast, if not faster then any detector......And far as the black sand, I have a friend that hunts RD/PP mode with the Excalibur II and said...

SurfnTurf

OBN,
Yes I'm 80% PPing I get 3 to 4 inches deeper in the black sand!! On good sounding targets I'll flip over and check in discrimination!
Ya it will be tough to repeat this next year..... But I'll try!!

SnT

SnT sofar 68 gold this year, 60 plus last...And this is only his second year hunting

Several of the old-masters noticed the same about the PP mode on the BBS machines

BBsailor
Remember, in the all-metal mode there is no falsing as there would be in the discriminate mode. So hunt in the all-metal mode at max sensitivity

.

Walter L.I.
Hi CJC, I had to read your article quite a few times for things to sink in.You have put quite a bit of thinking in to it.The Sovereign-Wot-S12 is my main weapon of choice on wet sand and I always hunt in All-Metal and check target in Disc. using a remote switch as (bb Sailor) stated.I also feel you can scan a beach quicker in all-metal compared to hunting in Disc. which you really need to move at a snails pace.After using all-metal for a few years i can normally tell if it is a coin or good target like you said it is much sharper response unless it is real deep without even checking in Disc. for the obvious good tone.Good Luck! Walter

CJC
Thanks again BB. It's for sure a force to be reckoned with. WOT Sovereign combo in all metal. It's nice in that listening for carry overs gives you pulse-type depth with some discrimination. Caps and some of the iron gives a recognisable tone with two "ends". I have tested this again and again and it seems to hold true. except for some bobby pins that must be sitting straight up and down. Mind you it helps if you have done some pulse hunting because it's a lot of work. Another thing I take from pulse-hunting is recognising that deep iron won't carry as well as something non-ferrous.

I do know I can swing my excals in PP alot faster then my Ls, and PP mode on the excal will smoke a BHID...My White's DF, where I hunt is a killer in the saltwater, but on the wet sand..excal PP mode rules, now the CZ 20/21 in auto tune AM/mode..that's a tuff call, Eric Foster hunts with the CZ this way with audio boost .........All of these are based upon Ocean City Md Hunting.....a little Double Discriminating Hunting with the Long Reach Excalibur/remote disc button this summer in OC, digging mid and disruptive tones only...covering more area looking for gold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBXAdnoEQps

 

[tvr]

OBN,
Another excellent video.

Are running your CZ with the volume control high into the boost range (8 to 10)? If you have not been running it there, try it, it may surprise you a little. You loose some ability to sense how deep a target is, but you will be finding (hearing) deep targets.
tvr

 

[OldBeechnut]

OBN,
Another excellent video.

Are running your CZ with the volume control high into the boost range (8 to 10)? If you have not been running it there, try it, it may surprise you a little. You loose some ability to sense how deep a target is, but you will be finding (hearing) deep targets.
tvr

Thanks TVR, I really did not get in very much hunt time this year and most was with the excal's. I did get out twice with the CZ20 8 inch, once in the Bay and once at OC..I'm still very much a Rookie with the Fishers...But my hunt to ring ratio with the CZ20 8 is better then the excal's. I think I tried the auto tune the year before, but Everywhere I've use the CZ there has been plenty of shallow targets............joe/tim

 

[goodmore]

After spending the weekend beach hunting I was reminded how I need to slow down and work a productive area. I don't think hunting a beach quickly is feasible or productive.

 

[seahunter34]

Have you guys looked down a Pacific NW Ocean beach? There are no productive/promising spots- just vastness! My idea is to cover ground with a faster responding machine, find targets, then slow down. Also that a faster responding machine might just happen to clip a target a slower machine might miss with a hurried sweep?

I watched a factory produced Whites PI Pro video and the guy whipping the coil looks like he is speed detecting, yet hits the gold in the wet sand! If I did that with my Excal in DISC, I would miss most targets. Though I will have to test Excalibur in AM mode- a good point/idea. That might work with a WOT coil? When I water hunt I find more gold when I cover more ground. Wouldn't it be similar on a huge beach with miles of big sand? Keep in mind... more than likely there will be no other detectors at the beach!

In my test garden, clearly some machines hit deep targets better with a fast swing. I'm not saying they wouldn't perform even better with a slower swing, but that some detectors totally miss deep targets with a fast swing. That would not help in covering ground? Remember, I agree slow hunting is usually better...

With my new to me CZ I noticed that in AM mode at max volume and sensitivity, the 8 inch coil just nails targets with a Fast swing. Not so in DISC mode. That reminds me on a prospecting trip to Alaska, I watched an expert find nuggets with a Fisher G-Bug. It seemed to be a fast responding detector and he swung his coil twice as fast as I did with my MXT. He found plenty of nuggets.

So why not at a vast ocean beach? Thanks for all the thoughts and I will also look at the 70.

 

[dbsmokey]

The black sands of Longview, WA drove my former tesoro supertraq nuts, the former tesoro eldorado never even stood a chance....my former explorer 2 nuts, and even challenges the excal. The next time I am there I will try the excal in AM. I can't wait to try the TDI at the beaches in SW Washington. However, the TDI is not waterproof and must not be swung like an ax. The sand is so laden with black sand, the beach must be loaded with goods, right?

 

[tvr]

... With my new to me CZ I noticed that in AM mode at max volume and sensitivity, the 8 inch coil just nails targets with a Fast swing.

I've got a lot more time with the CZ than the Excal, but I think I can say either can be swept too fast in all metal / autotune, although both can be swept faster in all metal / autotune than in discriminate mode. Both handle black sand fairly well, although even in all metal, you need to slow down over heavy black sand deposits. A PI will punch through the black sand better, but both the CZ and Excal do not do too bad. I have not been able to sweep the F75 LTD that I have too fast except in Cache mode; and that is not a good mode for the salt water beach.

I have not detected the West Coast yet, but have visited San Fransisco area beaches. I did notice some contours and wished I had packed a detector and scoop.

Based on what you observe with the CZ in autotune, I'd recommend using it and the Excal in all metal and go for it. If you feel that at your fast swing rate the CZ is nailing targets in autotune, I think you will have a similar experience with the Excal in all metal.

Again, just my two cents.
Best of luck to you and please share how you are doing and what you observe in your hunts.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[seahunter34]

That's what I remember years ago when I tried the beaches around Ocean Shores/Westport, WA. I had a Garrett Master Hunter and an early Whites PI (I think 1000 or 2000 model). Neither machine could handle the sand. It seemed like the entire area was peppered with iron- black sand? Plus I had no idea what I was doing at the time!

I know my Excals do not perform well in black sand and often wondered if fixed Iron Mask had anything to do with that? I have not tried my XS in wet black sand. So, I may not have a choice and might have to use my Infinium- a slower machine!

 

[seahunter34]

Last night I did a side-by-side of Excal and CZ in AM modes. While the Excalibur responded faster than I thought, the CZ seems to be faster. But now as was pointed out, all this may be a moot point? On our Pacific beaches I may have to use a PI because of black sand mixed in an otherwise white beach. I keep hearing how detectors fail at our beaches and that could very well be the case? I may have to use/try my slower Infinium and may even have to use the 14 DD coil, my least favorite. I may also have to give up on the idea of using a fast machine to cover ground. Even though I live West of Seattle, I still have to drive several hours to reach our Pacific beaches. I'll be bringing several machines on my first exploratory trip. Perhaps getting a BHID could be a mistake and will call Whites- since they are in Oregon and should know how well it performs at beaches out West. Thanks for all the help. SH34.

 

[jimmy]

I don't have a beach detector per se but I have the Whites Mxt which has a salt mode, I have found that you can sweep it pretty fast when hunting in the relic mode with the trigger forward for two tones hi/lo and there is a true all metal mode when the disc. is set to zero, in this mode it goes extremely deep in wet sand or dry and is not bothered at all by black sand. I have used the mxt mainly to nugget hunt in alaska and n.carolina. but am very surprised and happy that it is an excellent beach machine, I use a 10" dd coil at the beach and consistantly get nickles & quarters to 12"-14" dimes and pennies 8"- 11" and my last gold ring was 11" deep 14kt 5 grams. This machine is chatty so not for everybody but I have much better luck when using a set of hi ohm headphones (170 ohm) with just a hint of threshold sound and it's one hot detector !.

 

[calibil]

The TDI with a 4x18 inch coil is very good on the west coast beaches, you can sweep fast and still pick up coins, still it is a daunting task to search these end less beaches, I hip mount mine and the pole and coil are very light. Using a slower sweep will increase your chances of finding a smaller shallow or a deeper lager target. Gold/silver rings I have found will usually not be missed with a medium sweep. You can't miss Spanish coin with a TDI