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Lithium AA Batteries last 3 to 5 x longer ?

jmario

New member
The claim is that lithium batteries last substantially longer than alkaline. The run times vary depending on the electronic device, but you can expect 3 to 5 times longer.

I found a very good deal on brand name lithium batteries, they claim to have a ten year shelf life and are much lighter.

I read on this forum that the Whites MXT has a voltage regulator built in so there wont be an over voltage problem.
I'm thinking this might be a good way to go.


Does any one have any opinions? Have any of you used lithium's in you detectors ?
 
[size=large]what i've seen so far is New England Detectors and KellyCo are selling a version for the whites machines. about $190 is the cost.
these are recharable versions. looks like they come with charger for home and possibly the car. i'd try if i could justify the cost.

HH[/size]
 
Well for how long the lithium's last and what I can buy a 36 pack for I should be good for years .

I can buy a four pack of AA at my big box store for $4.59/4 = $1.14 each.. lets say I get 30 hours.


I can order lithium's (brand name) for $5.22/ 4 = $1.30 each .. lets say I get 3 x the battery life 90 hours that figures to about .34 cents per battery over its useful life, of course the larger quantity you buy the lower the unit price . Seems like a no brainer extended power use and long storage life.

Am I thinkin this right ?
 
You mentioned 'MXT has a voltage regulator built in so there wont be an over voltage problem.'

What regulator chip did Whites use in the MXT? Only Whites could say for sure unless someone could access the regulator chip and see what one they used. I researched the regulator and found that it is rated for 13.4 volts. http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?9195-MXT-battery
I would say that is fairly conclusive since it is on the Whites forum and was NOT contested. I'm pretty sure a few Whites representatives read that post.

The voltage regulator keeps the voltage stable to 8 volts output over a span of battery voltage input assuming it is at most 13.4 volts. What it does NOT do is protect against OVER VOLTAGE beyond 13.4 volts. There are some AA batteries on the market that are higher voltage than normal as you suggested these Lithiums could be. If they are the 1.7 volt ones I have heard about, that would be a total of 13.6 volts. Maybe ok, maybe not. I doubt you would have a problem but its not my loss to suggest its ok. Like any Lithium battery, they will probably hold their peak voltage for the majority of their life and drop swiftly at the end so you will be running over voltage for that 90ish hours. I would only trust an answer on this from a Whites representative.

If you find the 1.5 volt Lithiums, That is most likely the BEST battery you can buy even if a bit more expensive. I have seen them so that could be what you've found.
 
Yes, I've used the Enerigizer Lithiums in things and they do last MUCH longer. Not only that but they are super light compared to regular AAs. The extra run time is worth the slight extra cost and more than makes up for it. However, be careful. We tried them in an Etrac and it gave an over voltage error. Also, linear voltage regulators (which I assume all detectors use because switching regulators may be more efficient, but they are more costly and generate a lot of noise that would require extra components to cancel out)...But anyway...Linear regulators get rid of the excess voltage by bleeding it off as heat on a heat sink that sticks out the top of the chip. The more excess voltage there is the more heat that is generated. I would worry that the extra voltage could cook the regulator. Most regulators have a thermal shut down in them, so if your lucky after it cools back down it will work again...But I wouldn't take that chance.

On the subject of batteries. I hear a lot of people say they don't like rechargeables because they might lesson the performance of their detector because of the lower voltage. In truth it doesn't matter, because the regulator only allows a fixed amount of voltage (say 8V) to the circuit board, so higher voltage isn't going to give you better performance. They do this to keep the voltage stable, otherwise the detector's tuning would constantly drift as the voltage drops with battery drain.

A good high capacity rechargeable nimh (say 2500ma or higher) will outlast a store bought non-rechargeable battery most of the time these days in terms of run time, so I'd opt for those. They are also lighter than regular batteries which helps with weight. Me? I run a 3 cell lipo in my detector. They don't lose their charge sitting on the shelf. It's healthy and normal and not stressing a lipo to do a 1 hour charge time (that's pushing nimhs), and even though I'm using a lower capacity 750ma lipo versus my stock 1000ma stock nimh pack I get longer run times because a lipo holds it's voltage very high until the very end of the discharge, so it trips the low voltage cutoff later than a higher capacity nimh which drops it's voltage faster as it drains. A 3 cell series lipo generates 12.6V, so it's perfect to replace an 8 cell AA pack. A lipo is also MUCH lighter and smaller. Only problem is they require a special charger, and should never be drained below 3V per cell (9V total for a 3 cell series pack). Luckily my low voltage alarm on my detector sounds off at about 10.2 to 10.5V. I had to wire a little plug inside my regular AA holder for it to plug into, but the little pack fits easily inside the holder. I can move the little plug out of the way to run regular AAs in the holder if I ever wanted to do that again. Nimhs drain as they sit, so they need a top of charge if they've say sat for several weeks (or say a few months at least), while a lipo won't self discharge.
 
All excellent points, I will have to drag out my trusty multimeter and do some checking .First each individual Battery to check for voltage consistency, then when installed in the battery power pack total out put .

As long as I am at or under 13.4 volts there should be no problems.

Enjoyed reading some of the more in depth answer's these are the kinds of responses that I feel make this one of the better forum resources.

Jmario AKA jman
 
You can do what my friend does with his lithiums for his Etrac. He runs them in another device like a flashlight for about ten minutes and then the voltage is low enough to not trigger the high voltage alarm on the Etrac. They'll still give much longer run times than regular batteries. 8 AAs at 1.5V is 12V. My lipo is 12.6V, but I would assume (never checked) that fresh AAs hold a somewhat higher voltage than 1.5V per cell? So in other words a little over voltage probably shouldn't be a problem because the regulator will have some built in tolerance for that as I'm sure (? Somebody check) fresh AAs are going to read a good bit higher with 8 cells than just 12V total. Never thought about that concerning the extra .6V of my lipo...But then again I'm sure the regulator has some built in tolerance over say maybe up to like 13 to perhaps 14V or so. I'm sure they didn't widdle it down to a tolerance of less than .6V over voltage. That wouldn't seem too reliable in terms of longevity of the regulator, as it would need some excess ability to it wasn't being pushed at a flat 12V and running hot, if you know what I mean.
 
But still, those lithiums are 1.7V X 8 = 13.6V. That might be pushing it too much for the regulator, so I'd think twice about using them. Might at least cause things to go lights out on a hot day when the regulator has trouble getting rid of the excess heat burning off the extra voltage. If the machine stops working turn it off and let it cool down for 20 minutes and chances are the thermal overload will reset in the chip.
 
The regulator is designed to handle a max of 13.4 volts, but Whites NEVER expected the regulator to handle that voltage from AA's. Thats well beyond the average AA voltage peak when brand new. What it is not well beyond is the voltage of 1.7 volt Lithiums which would be 13.6 volts.

Whites designed it to be extra duty when using the correct voltage AA batteries. Even when Alkalines are used, 8 AA's would maybe peak at 13 volts at the very max but only for a couple min and thats throwing in an extra full volt just for sake of the debate. So you should expect some extra voltage than advertized from the Lithiums, at least when new.

If you used the Lithiums at 13.6 volts, they would most likely peak beyond that for awhile as already mentioned, which would cause extra internal heat and possibly causing a shutdown. Might be momentary, might be permanent. If the regulator failed and allowed 13+ volts to travel into the circuit board, it might burn out the whole board.

I'm positive that you can buy 1.5 volt lithiums. Just check the voltage, nothing against lithiums if your willing to pay for em.
These first two links are great deals at a bit over $2 for 4 AA's! Thats only about $5 for fresh batteries in the MXT that would seem to last much longer than Alkalines.
http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Eveready-01793-Ultimate-Lithium-Battery/dp/tech-data/B001SQNY08
http://www.megabatteries.com/item_details2.asp?id=15571&cat1=&uid=1420

These are just some quick results I found to show they are available but these are more expensive....
http://www.adorama.com/BYEULAA4.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase
http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Lithium-1-5V-Energy-Batteies/dp/B001INF2L0
http://www.megabatteries.com/item_details2.asp?id=16368&utm_source=google+product&utm_medium=versafeed&utm_term=16368&utm_campaign=electronics+electronics+accessories+power+batteries&utm_content=camelion&v_traceback=c0501_2115_f0501_2217&sid=shopgoogle
 
I took out my multimeter checked each new lithium battery .

Average voltage was 1.84 VDC Fresh.

MXT battery pack combined voltage was 14.72 VDC a full 2.72 VDC higher than the recommended alkaline.

Conclusion until I verify with Whites that I can safely use the lithium's at these higher voltages I agree with (Critterhunter) not recommended.

Or put another way use at own risk, to bad seemed like a good idea but to risky for expensive (toys) detecting equipment.

Rats I'm sure I will find another use for my newly opened packs of AA lithiums.
 
I found a forum that has raised the same concern about lithiums....
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?4317-lithium-AA-s-vs.-alkalines-OK-to-use-litium-s-in-turtlelite-II

They have also bought and tested several packages with mixed and concerning results. Some say they got high voltages 1.7 to 1.8 volts, ect, while some say they got 1.5 volts.

If you use them TEST YOUR VOLTAGE, Especially the total voltage of the battery PACK. Don't use them if the pack is beyond 13.4 volts.

Thanks for testing and letting us know your results, jmario.
 
I know there is a battery pack modification that allows you to use nine AAs which is 13.5 volts. I know a number of folks have used the mod on the MXT and DFX with no problems. I haven't used it myself, but those that have say it doesn't give the detector anymore power because of the input regulator is robust. It just gives a longer run time. If I get time, I may try it down the road, but I would like to hear Whites answer on what the max allowable input is.
John
 
If the ACTUAL voltage was 13.5 volts it would probably be fine, and if you used alkaline they seem to be VERY close to 1.5 volts each. But as a few have found out, the lithiums test upto 1.8 volts each or a total of 14.4 volts when using 8 of them. Some have tested new lithiums at closer to 1.5 each but for some reason they vary considerably. I guess someone could re-open the lithium thread or start a new one on the whites forum and see if a rep could verify.
 
Post on the Whites forum that specifically state the voltage regulators RATING being 13.4 volts......
http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?9363-Batteries-for-MXT

Another Whites forum post that states 15 volts max.....
http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/showthread.php?53000-NiZn-batteries

Not sure how a person gets an official answer here.
 
The rating is just that, like the best used date on your milk, I am sure 15 volts would be no problem and I believe the Engineering Dept at White's confirmed that in an earlier post here.
 
I've been using the lithium batteries for over a year now and have had no problems at all.
And they do last about4 times as long as alkaline batteries JMHO HH
 
My response from Whites;

Dear J Mario

We have many customers using many high end
 
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