r.r.warren
New member
what happens to coins or metal in the ground when lighting hits anyone know?
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lighting
- Thread starter r.r.warren
- Start date
John 'n' W.Va
Active member
I use to live in Fl. and there is a whole lot of lighting there. It is responsible for the pitting in copper pipes in houses. It doesn't have to hit the lines, just the ground. Most Fl. homes are built on slabs with the copper lines in them.
People was wondering why all the copper lines would leak over time. They did a study and found out it was the lighting striking the ground.
I have had to help others replace their lines when the wall for no reason started getting wet. Sometimes we could replace the lines in the wall. If it was in the slab, we had to run the lines in the attic.
I would guess it would pit the coins.
Lighting is a big killer in Fl. If it was within 5 miles of a construction site, they would shut everything down. Tonight I am in Fairmont. Tomorrow I will be in Orlando to get my grandkids. The lighting capital of the U.S. The state with the highest crime, humidity, roaches, fire ants, mosquitoes and crazy drivers. You can't imagine how crazy till you see a driver get out of his car with a baseball bat.
People was wondering why all the copper lines would leak over time. They did a study and found out it was the lighting striking the ground.
I have had to help others replace their lines when the wall for no reason started getting wet. Sometimes we could replace the lines in the wall. If it was in the slab, we had to run the lines in the attic.
I would guess it would pit the coins.
Lighting is a big killer in Fl. If it was within 5 miles of a construction site, they would shut everything down. Tonight I am in Fairmont. Tomorrow I will be in Orlando to get my grandkids. The lighting capital of the U.S. The state with the highest crime, humidity, roaches, fire ants, mosquitoes and crazy drivers. You can't imagine how crazy till you see a driver get out of his car with a baseball bat.
Joel-Winnipeg
New member
It's got to be all that lightning affecting the Orlando area .You'll have to avoid that location .
John 'n' W.Va
Active member
Joel-Winnipeg said:It's got to be all that lightning affecting the Orlando area .You'll have to avoid that location .
That is what I plan on doing. As soon as I get the kids on Wednesday, we are leaving. I won't relax for 2 1/2 hours later when I cross the Ga. line, then I will get a motel room.
Uncle Willy
New member
Yeah I've seen lightning at its worst. Desert states like Arizona have spectacular lightning storms. THe whole sky lights up with thousands of lightning bolts going in all directions I had lightning strike a tree just about eight feet from me when I was young. The stench of burnt oxygen was overwhelming. It hit a big oak tree just outside the kitchen window and stripped everything ( bark, limbs, the whole works ) off from the ground all the way to the top. Course the thunder was instantaneous and mind boggling. loud and rattled the windows.
My worst experience was when I worked on a big towboat on the Mississippi River system. We were stopped at Hannibal, Missouri waiting to go through a swing bridge. We were pushing about eight barges loaded with millions of gallons of 100 octane gas. Behind us was another boat pushing about the same. All of a sudden a tornado brews up out of nowhere and heads for us. Lightning was everywhere, striking trees on the shore, buildings in Hannibal, and dancing dangerously close to us.
All we could do was stand out on deck and pray a bolt didn't nail us or the boat behind us. If it had Hannibal and that part of MIssouri would have been erased. Soon the tornado appeared coming through the trees on the bank to the right of us. It came right across the river, sucking up tons of water, and passed between us and the boat behind us, then hit Hannibal. That was one scary day that I'll never forget. Nothing generates lightning like a full blown tornado and I've seen a lot of those puppies and been in a couple..
Bill
My worst experience was when I worked on a big towboat on the Mississippi River system. We were stopped at Hannibal, Missouri waiting to go through a swing bridge. We were pushing about eight barges loaded with millions of gallons of 100 octane gas. Behind us was another boat pushing about the same. All of a sudden a tornado brews up out of nowhere and heads for us. Lightning was everywhere, striking trees on the shore, buildings in Hannibal, and dancing dangerously close to us.
All we could do was stand out on deck and pray a bolt didn't nail us or the boat behind us. If it had Hannibal and that part of MIssouri would have been erased. Soon the tornado appeared coming through the trees on the bank to the right of us. It came right across the river, sucking up tons of water, and passed between us and the boat behind us, then hit Hannibal. That was one scary day that I'll never forget. Nothing generates lightning like a full blown tornado and I've seen a lot of those puppies and been in a couple..
Bill
r.r.warren
New member
john u going 2 detect while your in the big "O"
Lightning to the ground will generally have no effect on coins.
The likely reason for pinholes in copper water line are the use
of PVC entrance lines. This is what causes the problem, not the
use of copper tube itself.
If the water system was totally metal, including the entrance line,
you shouldn't see any pinholes in the copper lines.
What usually happens is the strike energy will travel along the
ground, and be picked up by the ground rod which is connected to
the power ground, and also usually connected to the water piping.
The charge is picked up by the ground rod, and the energy is transferred
along this pipe. All is wants to do is find ground to discharge. If the pipes
are all metal, the discharge is easy and painless. No leaks.
But with the PVC entrance line that many homes have, you lose your
connection to ground at that point. It's like a big insulator.
So when the strike energy travels along the copper water lines to
ground, the PVC acts as a big insulator. No bueno..
The lightning charge has enough potential that it's going to find ground,
PVC or not. Remember that a lightning strike travels a few miles
in the poorly conductive medium called air.. A short section of
insulated pipe is not going to amount to squat. It's still going to
jump to ground one way or the other.
So what does it do? The charge energy travels to the end of the copper
pipe, and then pops through the copper tube to use the water inside
the pipes as the conductor. When this happens, it blows a pinhole
from the outside of the copper pipe to the inside where the water is.
Presto... A leak is formed.
The problem has nothing to do with the copper tubing itself. It's
due to placing that big PVC resister in line to ground, instead of
the metal pipe which most older houses used to use.
So to cure this problem, all one should need to do is connect a
metal jumper to make a good connection from the copper
tube running to the entrance PVC, and bypassing that PVC
to a good ground connection with the strap.
IE: a piece of wide copper strap would be best, but a heavy
gauge wire would work also. I'd use at least a section of #6 or
heavier wire.
Once you have a good low resistance connection from the
copper tube to ground at the other side of the PVC, the
problem should be solved.
But it's very unlikely for lightning to effect a coin that is
sitting in earth. It's not acting as a conductor of lightning
current to ground. For all practical purposes it is part of
the ground itself, and will float along at the same potential
as the ground surrounding it.
The potential of pipes, wiring, or any other conductors in
the home should all be at the same potential.
This is why code requires all grounds to be bonded together.
If all conductors are at the same potential, no current can
flow, and no damage.
But it they are at different potentials, current will flow between
them, and you will have lightning charge damage.
Being a ham op, I have to deal with lightning all the time,
and design my systems to handle it.
I've had lightning strike my antenna mast two different times
while I was sitting in this chair 10-15 away from the base of
the mast. But... It's a non event.
#1, I have a very good low resistance connection to ground
at the base of the mast.
This ensures that the bulk of the charge will go to ground at
the base of the mast. It also reduces the fireworks which you
will see when the strike hits the mast.
Take a tree.. A tree has a fairly high resistance to ground.
When lightning hits, there is no really good connection to
ground, but remember, it's going to find it anyway being it's
traveled through the air a few miles to get to you.
Wood is a poor conductor of electricity.
So.. it sees the water on the tree bark, and also moisture
in the tree bark as it's path to ground.
BAAAAAANNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Due to the poor return to ground, you have a huge energy
dump at the base of the tree which can strip bark, make
fireworks, and a huge loud noise.
But when lightning strikes my well grounded mast, it goes
to ground in an easy military manner, and you avoid the
large energy dump. A strike to my mast makes basically
no noise. All you hear is a sound about the same as throwing
a light bulb on the ground so it breaks. It's just a large quiet
arc..
Then a split second later you hear the overhead sonic boom,
which is not to be confused with the sound of the actual strike.
All my wiring, water lines are connected together and are at
the same potential. So no current can flow, and no damage
to anything in the house.
Moral of the story.. If you live in a high lightning strike area,
and use copper water lines, *DO NOT* use a PVC entrance
line to this copper system. It acts as a resister to currents.
It's best to run metal pipe all the way from the meter.
If they did use a PVC entrance line, bypass it with a piece
of copper strap from the copper end, to a good ground
connection at the metal "meter" side of the entrance.
This should cure the pinhole in the copper problem.
Is this post a novel or what...
The likely reason for pinholes in copper water line are the use
of PVC entrance lines. This is what causes the problem, not the
use of copper tube itself.
If the water system was totally metal, including the entrance line,
you shouldn't see any pinholes in the copper lines.
What usually happens is the strike energy will travel along the
ground, and be picked up by the ground rod which is connected to
the power ground, and also usually connected to the water piping.
The charge is picked up by the ground rod, and the energy is transferred
along this pipe. All is wants to do is find ground to discharge. If the pipes
are all metal, the discharge is easy and painless. No leaks.
But with the PVC entrance line that many homes have, you lose your
connection to ground at that point. It's like a big insulator.
So when the strike energy travels along the copper water lines to
ground, the PVC acts as a big insulator. No bueno..
The lightning charge has enough potential that it's going to find ground,
PVC or not. Remember that a lightning strike travels a few miles
in the poorly conductive medium called air.. A short section of
insulated pipe is not going to amount to squat. It's still going to
jump to ground one way or the other.
So what does it do? The charge energy travels to the end of the copper
pipe, and then pops through the copper tube to use the water inside
the pipes as the conductor. When this happens, it blows a pinhole
from the outside of the copper pipe to the inside where the water is.
Presto... A leak is formed.
The problem has nothing to do with the copper tubing itself. It's
due to placing that big PVC resister in line to ground, instead of
the metal pipe which most older houses used to use.
So to cure this problem, all one should need to do is connect a
metal jumper to make a good connection from the copper
tube running to the entrance PVC, and bypassing that PVC
to a good ground connection with the strap.
IE: a piece of wide copper strap would be best, but a heavy
gauge wire would work also. I'd use at least a section of #6 or
heavier wire.
Once you have a good low resistance connection from the
copper tube to ground at the other side of the PVC, the
problem should be solved.
But it's very unlikely for lightning to effect a coin that is
sitting in earth. It's not acting as a conductor of lightning
current to ground. For all practical purposes it is part of
the ground itself, and will float along at the same potential
as the ground surrounding it.
The potential of pipes, wiring, or any other conductors in
the home should all be at the same potential.
This is why code requires all grounds to be bonded together.
If all conductors are at the same potential, no current can
flow, and no damage.
But it they are at different potentials, current will flow between
them, and you will have lightning charge damage.
Being a ham op, I have to deal with lightning all the time,
and design my systems to handle it.
I've had lightning strike my antenna mast two different times
while I was sitting in this chair 10-15 away from the base of
the mast. But... It's a non event.
#1, I have a very good low resistance connection to ground
at the base of the mast.
This ensures that the bulk of the charge will go to ground at
the base of the mast. It also reduces the fireworks which you
will see when the strike hits the mast.
Take a tree.. A tree has a fairly high resistance to ground.
When lightning hits, there is no really good connection to
ground, but remember, it's going to find it anyway being it's
traveled through the air a few miles to get to you.
Wood is a poor conductor of electricity.
So.. it sees the water on the tree bark, and also moisture
in the tree bark as it's path to ground.
BAAAAAANNNNGGGGG!!!!!
Due to the poor return to ground, you have a huge energy
dump at the base of the tree which can strip bark, make
fireworks, and a huge loud noise.
But when lightning strikes my well grounded mast, it goes
to ground in an easy military manner, and you avoid the
large energy dump. A strike to my mast makes basically
no noise. All you hear is a sound about the same as throwing
a light bulb on the ground so it breaks. It's just a large quiet
arc..
Then a split second later you hear the overhead sonic boom,
which is not to be confused with the sound of the actual strike.
All my wiring, water lines are connected together and are at
the same potential. So no current can flow, and no damage
to anything in the house.
Moral of the story.. If you live in a high lightning strike area,
and use copper water lines, *DO NOT* use a PVC entrance
line to this copper system. It acts as a resister to currents.
It's best to run metal pipe all the way from the meter.
If they did use a PVC entrance line, bypass it with a piece
of copper strap from the copper end, to a good ground
connection at the metal "meter" side of the entrance.
This should cure the pinhole in the copper problem.
Is this post a novel or what...
Uncle Willy
New member
Yeah I've had my share of adventures in my lifetrime.
Bill
Bill
Some would say scientwist... 
But lightning is some weird stuff. I can tell you all kinds of weird
things about lightning.
One example.. A good low resistance connection to ground is everything.
It will mean the difference between a non event and a disaster.
You hear of houses getting hit by lightning and starting fires.
Thats because of the high resistance to ground, and the resulting
monster energy dump at the end of the trail. It can start fires, vaporize
metal and wiring to a glob of sprayed metal.
But... If you have a good low resistance connection to ground, a single
run of #10 gauge wire can handle a full lightning strike with little heating,
and no damage at all. No joke.
This is how lightning rods can take repeated strikes and not show any
real damage. They are connected by copper ground straps to a good
ground, using a low resistance connection.
Lightning can and does strike twice or even dozens of times in the same
place, if that place is an attractive streamer. IE: lightning rod, or similar.
A lightning rod can be struck many times. Even multiple times in a
single storm, if the storm was really bad and the lightning rod was higher
than any other object around.
Lightning is a two way street.
IE: you have a down leader that comes out of the sky. This is what most
people see, and think of as lightning.
But... You also have streamers which start from the ground and stream
upwards towards the clouds. A sharp pointed object will generally stream
easier than a blunt or flat object. This is why lightning rods have a sharp
point. It causes easier streaming which is required in order to attract
lightning that otherwise might strike in a slightly different location in the
area.
If lightning hits the ground, or an object near the ground, that means the
down leader found an appropriate streamer in the area of the strike to
connect with and complete the full stroke to ground. You always have
both of them with a complete strike to ground.
Streamers are not nearly as visible as a down leader, but you can see
and photograph them. A streamer will look like an arcing flash of energy
which points up towards the sky, and actually will point towards approaching
down leaders.
A down leader will only decide on a likely streamer to connect with in it's
last 150 yards or so to the ground. Both are attracted to each other, and
will sort of seek each other out. IE: the up streamers are pointing themselves
at the down leaders. A down leader runs in jagged sections of about 150
yards or so apart, if I remember right on the distance. It's at that last section
to the ground where the leader starts really sniffing for a streamer.
So... if you have a lightning rod on your house, you are actually inviting lightning
strikes to use it as the streamer point, vs some other undesirable point like a
roof peak, TV antenna/dish, etc.
You are not actually causing strikes to occur, rather you are setting up a desirable
streaming point just in the case a strike is over your house area. In that case, if
lightning strikes, it's going to hit it's easiest streamer in the area. The rod is just
acting as a better streamer to lure the down leader to it, vs something else.
You are controlling the strike to an extent.
To protect other items, the rod should be mounted above those items to have
the best success of luring the strike away.
Some safety info..
If you are ever outside during a storm and start feeling a tingling, or your hair
starts standing on end, that means *you* are starting to stream. This is ***very***
dangerous. This places you at a large risk of attracting a down leader.
If you starting streaming strong enough and it was dark, you might even actually
see the streaming.
Just a hair on your head is sharp and pointy, and will stream well. Lots of hairs,
lots of potential streaming points.
This is how people get popped out on the golf course.
If you started feeling like you are streaming, and have no where to get indoors
fast, it's best to crunch down on the balls of your feet, and place your hands
on your pants legs, *** but not touching the ground**, and duck your head
down into a ball in your lap. You want to reduce streaming, and make a lower
target against other objects close by that will also be streaming at the same time.
That way they look stronger to the down leader, and hopefully will pick one of them,
vs you.
Note this picture of a strike to the tree. The downleader connected to a streamer from
that tree. But... There was another streamer also begging for attention.
Look to the right of the strike halfway between the strike and the right edge of the pix..
See that white-blue vertical line coming up from the branches? Thats a streamer
that you can actually see. See the top pointing towards the down leader?
It wants some action too, but alas the streamer to the left was stronger and ended
up being the one to attract the strike. That's how close you can be from death, or
just having an accident in your britches from the scare.
Anyway, if a person were streaming strongly, and it was totally dark, it's possible
to see a visible streamer coming off him, much like the one in that tree.
But most people never notice it, being it's often light, and the down stroke
makes the streamer look runty in comparison. But they will usually feel the tingle,
and sometimes a streamer can buzzzz a bit..
Lightning is some weird @#$%....
And it can strike you at up to 8-10 miles away in some cases. Even if you have blue
skies overhead.
But lightning is some weird stuff. I can tell you all kinds of weird
things about lightning.
One example.. A good low resistance connection to ground is everything.
It will mean the difference between a non event and a disaster.
You hear of houses getting hit by lightning and starting fires.
Thats because of the high resistance to ground, and the resulting
monster energy dump at the end of the trail. It can start fires, vaporize
metal and wiring to a glob of sprayed metal.
But... If you have a good low resistance connection to ground, a single
run of #10 gauge wire can handle a full lightning strike with little heating,
and no damage at all. No joke.
This is how lightning rods can take repeated strikes and not show any
real damage. They are connected by copper ground straps to a good
ground, using a low resistance connection.
Lightning can and does strike twice or even dozens of times in the same
place, if that place is an attractive streamer. IE: lightning rod, or similar.
A lightning rod can be struck many times. Even multiple times in a
single storm, if the storm was really bad and the lightning rod was higher
than any other object around.
Lightning is a two way street.
IE: you have a down leader that comes out of the sky. This is what most
people see, and think of as lightning.
But... You also have streamers which start from the ground and stream
upwards towards the clouds. A sharp pointed object will generally stream
easier than a blunt or flat object. This is why lightning rods have a sharp
point. It causes easier streaming which is required in order to attract
lightning that otherwise might strike in a slightly different location in the
area.
If lightning hits the ground, or an object near the ground, that means the
down leader found an appropriate streamer in the area of the strike to
connect with and complete the full stroke to ground. You always have
both of them with a complete strike to ground.
Streamers are not nearly as visible as a down leader, but you can see
and photograph them. A streamer will look like an arcing flash of energy
which points up towards the sky, and actually will point towards approaching
down leaders.
A down leader will only decide on a likely streamer to connect with in it's
last 150 yards or so to the ground. Both are attracted to each other, and
will sort of seek each other out. IE: the up streamers are pointing themselves
at the down leaders. A down leader runs in jagged sections of about 150
yards or so apart, if I remember right on the distance. It's at that last section
to the ground where the leader starts really sniffing for a streamer.
So... if you have a lightning rod on your house, you are actually inviting lightning
strikes to use it as the streamer point, vs some other undesirable point like a
roof peak, TV antenna/dish, etc.
You are not actually causing strikes to occur, rather you are setting up a desirable
streaming point just in the case a strike is over your house area. In that case, if
lightning strikes, it's going to hit it's easiest streamer in the area. The rod is just
acting as a better streamer to lure the down leader to it, vs something else.
You are controlling the strike to an extent.
To protect other items, the rod should be mounted above those items to have
the best success of luring the strike away.
Some safety info..
If you are ever outside during a storm and start feeling a tingling, or your hair
starts standing on end, that means *you* are starting to stream. This is ***very***
dangerous. This places you at a large risk of attracting a down leader.
If you starting streaming strong enough and it was dark, you might even actually
see the streaming.
Just a hair on your head is sharp and pointy, and will stream well. Lots of hairs,
lots of potential streaming points.
This is how people get popped out on the golf course.
If you started feeling like you are streaming, and have no where to get indoors
fast, it's best to crunch down on the balls of your feet, and place your hands
on your pants legs, *** but not touching the ground**, and duck your head
down into a ball in your lap. You want to reduce streaming, and make a lower
target against other objects close by that will also be streaming at the same time.
That way they look stronger to the down leader, and hopefully will pick one of them,
vs you.
Note this picture of a strike to the tree. The downleader connected to a streamer from
that tree. But... There was another streamer also begging for attention.
Look to the right of the strike halfway between the strike and the right edge of the pix..
See that white-blue vertical line coming up from the branches? Thats a streamer
that you can actually see. See the top pointing towards the down leader?
It wants some action too, but alas the streamer to the left was stronger and ended
up being the one to attract the strike. That's how close you can be from death, or
just having an accident in your britches from the scare.
Anyway, if a person were streaming strongly, and it was totally dark, it's possible
to see a visible streamer coming off him, much like the one in that tree.
But most people never notice it, being it's often light, and the down stroke
makes the streamer look runty in comparison. But they will usually feel the tingle,
and sometimes a streamer can buzzzz a bit..
Lightning is some weird @#$%....
And it can strike you at up to 8-10 miles away in some cases. Even if you have blue
skies overhead.