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Learning the F5...

cju7250

New member
I had mentioned in a post that I had compiled bits of information and such from different posts about the F5, mainly from Mike Hillis, and saved them in a notepad file so I could quickly reference them when I needed them without having to go back and search through different posts to find what I needed. Someone asked me to send this to them, but instead I figured I may as well just post it. I hope my little bit of hunting and picking out bits of information may be of help to someone. Of course Mike is really the one to thank, i'm just trying to condense it down so it could referenced quickly. Btw, Mike if you'd rather I not have this posted, just let me know and i'll get rid of it! :nono: It is mostly all your information afterall. :)

Learning the F5:

****"The gain is basically the power, a magnifier of the signals that increases or decreases the strength of those signals.
The threshold controls what size signal the detector will pick up.
Anything below 0 with the threshold and the detector is restricting smaller signals from being detected to some degree.
At 0 the threshold is totally open, above 0 threshold settings will increase the volume of all signals.
Mike H. made an analogy a while back that stuck with me. The threshold is the door that controls what signals get in. At 0 the door is wide open. Below 0 the door is partly shut. Above 0 threshold does not open the door more, it merely increases the volume.
A higher threshold is usually preferred when you're looking for very small targets, small gold for instance.
Stability aside go with what you can tolerate re: the amount of valid signals coming through which will vary depending on the site conditions (trash ect.). In areas with a lot of small trash you can go with a lower threshold to reduce signals from the tiny stuf and then perhaps up the gain a bit. Of course you could just notch out the foil range for coin hunting but many prefer to hear it all.
Lower threshold settings should not cause much if any loss/depth on coin sized targets however the signal will be audibly weaker."


****Some help with your TID....pinpoint the target inside the golf ball size opening in front of the lower rod, then sweep for id. When you look at your TID, also look at the confidence graph. The more confidence bars lit up, the stronger and better the read. Disregard the lower graph readings and just keep the higher graph readings. . If you sweep 4 times and get a 20/4bar, 33/3bar, a 22/4bar, and a 70/2bar, keep the 4 bar readings and ignore the others. This scenario would give you a 20 and 22 reading.....Your intial pinpoint will tell you what to expect to see, confidence bar-wise.

****The Phase number changes every second. Ignore it unless you are pumping your coil. When you want to check your ground balance, just pump the coil over clean ground and see if the phase number and ground numbers are still the same or close to the same. If you see the numbers have become more than 3 or 4 numbers apart, reground balance by pressing the phase lock button and pumping the coil over the ground again. Then ignore the Phase number until you are ready to check your balance again.

****Set your Gain and Threshold so that your detector is stable. You only want it to beep when you are over a metal target. If you have it set to hot you will get a lot of false signals. Set your Gain to somewhere between 65 and 85, and then raise the Threshold up until it starts to chatter, then back it off until it stops chattering. Now it will only beep when you are over or around metal.

****Set your discrimination low (around 8 or 9) unless there are so many targets that you can't focus. In that case, raise the discrimination until you can handle (read "process") the audio. Use a tone id option that you are comfortable with.

****Only recover the repeatable signals. They repeat on both left/right sweeps over the target.

****You never know about the weak signals. They could be fringe depth targets or they could be micro trash or they could be oxidized iron that got charged up enough to spike a reading. Raising the Gain like you are doing is good, if you investigate them you want to try to get the best signal response you can. You can also try raising the threshold closer to +9 to get a more definitive (sharper) audio response. Typically, if it doesn't pinpoint, or can't pinpoint in one specific location it is trash.
Speaking of fringe depth targets (objects at the limit of the detectors ability to detect them with the current settings), Threshold settings play a big part of how they will sound. Theshold settings closer to 0 will give a "whisper" type response. Threshold settings closer to the ends, either -9 or +9 will give more "ping" type responses. I bring this up so you know what type of audio to expect for the deep objects.

****The can slaw is jumping up into the high numbers because your not centered over the target. To get the most accurate TID, pinpoint it to the center of your coil and resweep. The numbers will drop back down where they belong.

**** Normal basic jewelry settings are:'
Threshold - a high positive setting, all the time. I like +5.
Gain - raised until it starts to chatter, then reduced until stable. Gound minerals determine if I do this with the coil held still or with the coil in motion.
Tones - most of the time I use the 4 tone mode but it really depends on what I'm focused on hunting.
Discrimination - I usually run around 7 or 8. Unless I'm focused into a particular range of targets in which case I'll use the notches to limit the audio as much as possible to just that range.

****There is a point where the threshold setting stops giving you a depth increase and changes over to a modification of target response. Threshold settings close to 0 make fringe depth targets sound as "whispers". When the threshold is moved out toward the edges (-9 or +9) then the fringe depth targets start to sound more like faint "ticks". Since it is often difficult to get a +9 threshold setting in urban environments it is not general knowledge, and I may be the only person that hunts with a -9 threshold setting on a regular basis and aware of the differences. In fact, although I prefer the audio rubustness that positive threshold setting give, at sites where my ground minerals are low enough, I like coin hunting with very low (-9 to -5) threshold settings and very high gain settings. For gold jewelry hunting I use very high (+5 or higher) threshold settings with stable gain settings.

****You will also find that you can put the F5 into 2-tone mode and walking parallel to them, drag the tip along foundations and listen for the zip sounds among the reinforcing iron and pick up targets that nobody else can.

****if you are getting chatter with the coil held still, that is EMI. Drop your threshold another number.

****if you are getting chatter with the coil in motion, that is ground noise, trash and such. Verify your ground balance, and if the trash is too much, notch some of it out.

Pinpointing:
****1st, for shallow targets, stay in Disc mode and use the toe of the coil to pinpoint. Just wiggle the coil back and forth over the target while you move the coil back toward you until you lose the target, then move slightly back. Youll get it just under the tip. Practice it a bit and youll get good at.

****2nd. For deeper objects or if you have trouble pinpointing with the toe of the coil, Press pinpoint and pinpoint the target based upon the best audio, then release and repress the pinpoint button again, and pinpoint the target again. This is called detuning. What happens is that when you pinpoint the target, then release and press the pinpoint button again while over the target, you have detuned the target response, which has made the target response smaller. Because the target response is smaller, you can get your coil better centered over it. You might even have to actually press the coil to the ground like you were trying to mash the target to pick it up again. You can get a very tight pinpoint using the detune process. Again, practice makes you better.

****I see posts about jumpy target ids. The coil design will give jumpy id's for the deeper objects unless you get it pinpointed to the sweet spot of the coil. Use a golf ball to find the sweet spot on the coil by placing it in on the inner loop. Roll it a bit and then let it come to rest. That is the sweet spot on the coil. Mark it, memorize it, something. That golf ball size area is the coil's most sensitive spot. When you get jumpy targets, pinpoint, detune and pinpoint and detune again if needed to get the target centered in that spot. Then sweep it. Many times the id will stabilize enough for better decisions. Watch the confidence bar. Works well on iron falses as well.
 
thanks alot man,that helped me alot. the ol girl just might not get wrapped around the tree next time now. just outta curiosity is the dd coil better over the eliptical?
 
Thanks a lot for this. I have an F5 being shipped to me as of yesterday and I came on here to get some info on it. Pretty danged good timing!!!
 
Thank you for pulling that info together.

I'll add this for Phase numbers: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,1585210,1585210#msg-1585210

And everbody likes an air test: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,1342074,1342074#msg-1342074 what is interesting about the this air test is look at the low conductive test targets. Spend a little time reviewing this test and think about the two machines differences, namely F5's 7.8 frequency as compared to the Goldbug's 19kHz frequency. Notice the switch between the two that starts as the low conductive targets get smaller.

This is a comparison between the F5 and Omega that has more info on the F5.: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?37,916869,916869#msg-916869

HH
Mike
 
Under the PP advice, just to be certain, the top left arrow is the tip you are referring to for shallow targets and the bottom right is best for deeper targets.
 
My trashy park has large parts where I cannot adjust the GB in all metal mode like the instructions recommend. is it necessary to have an area free of signals in order to properly adjust the GB? there just isn't a patch of clean ground to be found and its very frustrating. one section is mostly clean and I found 16 quarters 20X40 yards and thats only a tenth of the park, but in the other 9\10 I can't ID anything because of the trash.

After reading this awesome post I am going to go back tomorrow AM and try all your suggestions. Thanks!
 
Hi everyone,
I read the forum a lot but am not much of a poster. After reading and studying up on most of the competition, I bought the F5 right after Christmas. Other than a few passes through the backyard to test this metal and that metal's response, I never really had time to use it until today.

Tried it out on a piece of land that I bought last October in N Louisiana red dirt country, south of Shreveport; part of a 200 year old plantation cotton field. As I figured, I found the usual barbed wire, square nail, beer can, and tabs. Sorry, no Double Eagles or neat stuff yet.

How much does wet ground affect the operation of these? Every time it showed iron, I found barbed wire, every time I got a 70+ I got aluminum can or shrapnel. The ground wasn't sloppy, but was sticky digging.

Gb was easy enough, 1 bar on Few meter. Gain around 65 in all metal mode. I have used cheap machines before, but this was my first time with a "fancy" unit.
 
I seldom do it! Especially in the trashy places you mention...I dont think it would really help, since all the trash has a masking effect on deeper targets anyway, even if you were perfectly ground balanced, those other signals still scatter your coil to be danged. So, I run a low sens, a neg 3 thresh and have no problem cleaning up targets in the 4" to surface range. Without ground balancing. The only time I do ground balance, is when I get into some clean dirt, and want to shoot as deep as possible, lets say a fellow was relic hunting or going for old silver deep coins. I bet I ground balance about once a month if then. I'm shooting totlots, sports fields, and beaches for coins/jewelry. I jump out of the truck, turn it on and go! Hillis may show up and add his experience with the F5 ground balance level of importance, I swing an F70.
Mud.
 
dont listen to the manual abot ground ballance its full of sh it u dont need to be in all metal,but u do need to be in a area free of metals. the f5 is a great machine. when setting it up turn the thress down till ti stops chattering,if u go more the 3/4 a turn on the thres and its still chattern,turn it back up a little,then turn youer gain back a little till it stops chattern so much u will do good with this setting. trust me i was about to wrap mine around a tree when i first got this girl. ask these guys. one thing that i dont like about it is it will give u a high 70 or more reading on junk iron if its close to the surface. mabey i got my settings wrong,but dont think so. any input on this for all ya fellers out thier would be appreciated. keep on learn the f5 man spend more shell treal ya better then youer old lady it will make ya money not cost ya
 
I just happened to start looking down near the river where there was an old fence. I believe the machine was doing what it was supposed to do, and I wanted to dig whatever I found.

Got a little more time in yesterday until my guy showed up to start mowing. The water was too muddy to fish, so we left.

Heading back to Houston and it will be a few weeks until I can get back up here.
 
Thanks for all your advice. I've tried all your suggestions and had a very good outing these past few days. I've gone from the $3 total found to $18 mark. Thats enough to buy more batteries!!

This is another situation I've encountered: Is there any trick that would help ID a cluster of different coins in a single spot?

I got a strong read on a very high target ID in the .50 cent range and after digging I found two quarters stacked perfectly on each other. I just thought it was neat that it "seen" them as .50 cents!
Another find there was .21 cents, 1 zinc penny and 2 dimes that target ID wouldn't settle but jumped from penny to dime, thinking this was a trash target, but i dug anyway and found them all together. I just wonder how may more clusters I'v missed like this.

Would a better machine separate them better?

Let me know what ya all think, any kind words would be much welcome!!!
 
Yeah, theres lots of stacks and tight spills that easily get overlooked. I think its a matter of experience, time afield, which you are getting, you can practice in your yard with multidenom stacks, which really give a weird signal, try putting a nickle on top of a quarter, stuff like that...I got a nice stack of 6 dimes Sunday, those tight multidenom spills are hard to find if you are stabbing, I raise the coil off the ground and try to work my way in from the outside edge, trying to isolate one signal at a time, its hard with the 11" coil, but thats all I have at the moment. Multi quarter stacks are great! A stack or spill really helps up your finds per minute ratio, and there are lots of them out there, I bet I hit at least one per outing on sports fields, snowpiles, beaches, totlots, etc. Heck, I got a 4 zinc penny stack today that came in higher than just one penny, but not high enough to be a dime, and just the right signal that could have been a big gold ring, so it will pay off to dig those zincs eventually. Stacks, spills and clusters sound like junk to most detectorists, since the signal jumps all over the place. Raising the coil gradually as you sweep the target is about the only thing I could suggest as to helping, then you can key in on the last signal, and start from there.
Mud.
 
Hi Mud thats great stuff you are way experienced!! I was out this AM at a new untouch parking lot--which gave up $7.30 in dimes!!! and that was just 1/20 of this place. It was really compact grey gravel, guess dimes are much harder to see in the gravel. I did find a few spills like you said they make odd jumps on the target ID, but I did what you all said, lock out the bad guys and dig em up!
Bad news is I've been to a few places this week where someone else has been digging and NOT even attempting to backfill and cover their digs. I hope this guy does not cause trouble with the local parks for me. Heck, I make damn sure no one would even know that I had visited a place, even places deep in the woods get a 100% cover up.
Its also good to know this guy isn't too good either, I picked quite a few marks he left behind, thanks to all your help!
 
This thread is better than a workshop manual..... I,ve just learned more in the last half hour than I have outdoors since last october, keep it coming guys Doing my first rally this weekend, fingers crossed. HH all
 
I too learned so much from everyone here! Only advice I can give, chances are most people know this, is after you recover a find take a few steps backwards and start swinging giving your F5 a chance to settle back in sync with things then move forward. I found lots of multiples this way. The best yet was 7 quarters and 1 nickle all in a 1' X 1' area.

Best seeking to all!
 
A lot of good stuff here. I'm no Mike Hillis, but I have had a F5 since the fall of 2008 and have spent a lot of time using it.

A key to detecting deep with all detectors that have controllable sensitivity is running the sensitivity as hot as ground and EMI conditions will allow. The F5 has both gain and threshold controls.

With the F5 you want to run the detector as hot as you can get it and still be EMI quiet with the coil in motion. That is an important distinction. The F5 is unique in the way motion of the coil over the ground mitigates EMI, EMI that you will hear at significantly lower settings when the coil is not in motion. If you run a F5 with optimal power it's either remove the headphones when retrieving targets or deal with a whole lot of chatter.

Another odd quirk about the F5 is when you max out the gain and threshold you will quiet the machine noticably...because you have lowered the sensitivity. The opposite of what you would expect when you max out the controls.
 
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