Lapel insignia question

[D&P-OR]

I'm unable to post a picture but was wondering if someone could help identify a lapel insignia I recovered a couple of days ago.--I found it in an old city park while useing the Etrac & it was 6 or 7 inches deep.---It is 1" diameter, has a skeleton key & sword crossed with circle in center rimmed by 13 stars.--Also, has an eagle perched on the top of the circle of stars with spread wings (between the sword & key handles).--It has a threaded "post" on the back.--It appears to be made of brass.----I have found a lot of lapel insignias over the years but have never seen one like this.--Was just hopeing someone could identify it & put an approx. age on it.---Again, sorry for no picture.--------Thanks, Del

 

[coloradocav]

Sounds like you have a Quartermaster department collar disk. need to see the background behind the design to age it. does the bacground smooth, stipled or have diamond shapes? Cool find congrats, anyway collar disks started around 1910.

 

[D&P-OR]

Hey coloradocav-----That's it EXACTLY!--The back is smooth & it's got a couple of little "catches" bent over that center part that holds the threaded post.---Isn't this the neatest hobby!---Around 1910 you say?---It would be pre-WW 1 vintage then.---Do you have any other comments on it for me?---VERY INTERESTING!--------Thanks so much, Del

 

[D&P-OR]

Just re-read your post question.---The background around the front (design) has what looks to be little raised "dots" through out.--When I put it under my glass, they don't look to be of diamond design--look more like little raised dots.--------Del

 

[coloradocav]

sounds like your is the early one then! nice job. I love collar disks, I have not found a quartemaster one yet. My favorite onr I have dug is a 45th tank division,it is of 1930's era. keep it up.

 

[D&P-OR]

coloradocav----Hey that 45th tank division one you have is really a neat one--GREAT FIND!----Is there a book I could purchase that you would recommend on the IDing of these "collar disks"?---I' have books on both buckle & buttons ID but have never had a book on these collar disks---I always called 'em insignia emblems, etc. ---I've found a bunch of them over the years & I'm sure most of them aren't that rare but it would be fun to go thru them & try to ID them with a picture ID book.-------Del

 

[coloradocav]

I'm sure there are a few, I really like "Encyclopedia of United States Army Insignia and uniforms" by William H Emerson. I've been collecting collar disks since I found an awesome WW1-WW2 army dump. I found quite a few collar disks along with over 2000 Army buttons and other good stuff. This was a Colorado national guard post, The relics I dug from this site are going to be inducted into a National guard museum that will be open soon. Their historian heard about all the items I dug and now I am working with them on the museum, they are also getting me permission to other areas so it works out pretty good for all of us. It also helps in giving us metal detectorist a good name. I hope you find more, keep us posted.

 

[D&P-OR]

Thanks, I'll look for that book.---Thanks for shareing that story.--You are really doing the WHOLE metal detecting community a great service by doing that & we sure can use it in these times.----I bought my first metal detectors in 1974 or '75 & it "ain't like it used to be".---This great hobby is getting a "bad rap" in several different areas & we SURE need all the good publicity we can get!!-----Thanks again for your help.--------Del

 

[KyBud(InezKy)]

Its the only one I've ever found. I traced it back to the 1910 era. If anyone has any more info on it I would love to know more about it.
God Bless,
HH
KyBud

 

[coloradocav]

It's different than most collar disks, I've not found one with a back like this, they usually have a screw post attachment with 2 small pins and they are much thicker, yours looks thin, also if you look at the edges of the two previously posted photos of collar disks, you will see a rim around the outside edge. A few enlisted soldiers' collar insignia made in Germany immediatly after WW2 had safety pin fasteners instead of a screw post, but this same safety pin back was occasionally used on post WW1 insignia made in Germany.Unless your piece is something completely different, I believe yours could be one of these safety pin back disks. Nice find, hope I didn't make things too much more confusing.

 

[KyBud(InezKy)]

It did have a rusted out metal back that I took off. Could have been some kind of pin attached to it at some time. The pic dosen't show it but it does have a thin rim around it. The rifles are flintlocks and not bolt actions like most military lapel buttons. Anyway the fun was in finding it. Ain't this a great hobby.
God Bless,
HH
KyBud

 

[flash5153]

I have one just like that, or close. I don't know anything about it as I just found it not long ago. In the back there is a pc of metal that slides under that folded lip and has 2 rods on it. They could have been threaded I'm not sure.

 

[coloradocav]

ok fellas, I don't know how thos slipped my mind but these were held in place by clutch fasteners, these were patented around 1923 and the improved fastener pictured were used during WW2-present.

 

[KyBud(InezKy)]

n/t