Just bought an Excalibur - help me understand it please.:blink:

[beachdude]

I have been hunting in water with White's BHID and Dual Field for about a year now, so I am not a stranger to detecting, but I have some basic Noob questions about the Excalibur...

I just spent 6 hours hunting my freshwater site with an Excal II I bought yesterday. I was hunting in discriminate because this site is full of iron nails. I had the discriminate level at 1. The sensitivity on Auto. I actually found some large cents, some silver dimes, and an old bracelet. Not bad for the first hunt with this machine. I see what people mean about the stock setup not being ergonomic. ow! I will be getting a straight shaft ASAP.

1) Sometimes when I was sweeping the coil over an area, I could hear the detector null out, but when the threshold returned it did so at a higher pitched tone and held that for a while. Why does it do that?

2) Sometimes I would hear a target tone and then it would immediately null. I suspect this was because a coin was very close to an iron nail. When I dug it, it often was just the iron nail and no other targets. Why does it do that?

3) What is the deal with the sensitivity knob? The numbers go backwards! Does turning the know clockwise increase the sensitivity or decrease the sensitivity?

4) Is auto sensitivity better than manual for a freshwater site?

Thanks for your help oh wise Excalibur people

 

[Critterhunter]

That's some fantastic finds there! Sounds like you are off to a good start.

The answers to a few of your questions:

The tone of the threshold stays the same pitch as the last target saw. Iron can cause a false hit and cause a null and then the tone to change to something else that the iron's false spike mimicked, usually a coin and so a high tone.

The sensitivity gets higher the more *counterclockwise* you turn the dial, until it finally clicks into Auto. Hunt in Auto until you get used to how the machine should act for the first half hour or so at each new hunt, and then after a while flip over to manual. You'll want to lower sensitivity until it acts as stable as it did in Auto, or some like to ride it a bit higher to where the detector makes a little falsing or nulling here and there. If the threshold goes away and won't come back, on my Sovereign I keep backing it off until I can keep the threshold there at least 75% or so of the time, because I fear if the threshold is nulling out from too high of sensitivity then it might null out on a target too. Before lowering sensitivity, try slowing down your sweep, as the threshold dropping out can be a sign you are just swinging to fast for that soil or sand's mineralization. If you aren't sure what it's nulling from, re-sweep the same spot. Does it null every time? Then it's iron. If not, then slow down your sweep over that same spot. Does the nulling stop? Then you were sweeping too fast. If you can't consistently get it to go away then that's a sign that the sensitivity is too high.

Auto should only be used to A) Learn the machine, and to B) Use when even the lowest of manual is still causing the machine to run unstable due to heavy minerals or bad EMI problems. In general even 8 or 9 tenths all the way down in manual sensitivity will often get deeper than Auto will, but that depends on how Auto sets it's self. I've tested this on undug targets and in areas of high minerals or EMI about the lowest manual is still deeper than Auto, but in areas of better soil and lower EMI, I've found Auto will get about the same depth as the machine turned around 1/3rd (maybe, or at least 1/4th) the way up. For my Sovereign, I'll only use Auto if even near the lowest sensitivity setting in manual is still causing instability issues with nulling out thresholds or such. In particular, if I'm hunting an old path with a lot of stones or gravel on it I like using Auto because it'll smooth things right out.

I've ran my GT in Auto at one bad site containing minerals, EMI, and a lot of iron. It was so bad in all three ways that Auto was the only saine thing to do. Ended up popping a silver quarter at about 7.5" or so deep, and if I remember right that quarter was on edge. That was pretty impressive to me, because it banged hard and IDed fine. Use Auto when all the fussing with manual is driving you nuts. A perfect example for beach or water hunting would be where you keep moving in and out of one area of sand to another, where one spot allows a higher sensitivity setting but the other causes nulling or instability. Rather than keep toying with manual, throw it into Auto and now in a way it's "auto tracking" the ground for the most stable sensitivity from site to site as you move. On the other hand, you could just lower it in manual until it's stable at the worser ground, and the leave it at that for both, which probably is going to give you a good bit more depth than Auto.

Iron on any machine can cause false coin or non-ferrous hits, producing some kind of tone like a high coin tone. You just have to learn what could be real targets next to iron, and what are just iron hits acting as targets. But on the beach anyway I'll always scoop those signals because it's so easy with a long handled scoop. Anything that breaks through even slightly in tone I'm going to scoop because it takes so little effort, and could be a tiny gold earing or a smaller gold chain or something.

Only on land is it really important IMO to figure out what is probably a fake hit from iron and what might really be an old coin being masked by iron or other junk. Fortunately the Sovereign/Excal does an outstanding job of ignoring iron, so you'll find anyway that you dig far less iron junk that fooled you than with many other machines, while thanks to Iron Mask you'll still find a good many targets (coins, rings, etc) mixed in the same hole with iron too, as IMO BBS units do an oustanding job of sounding off to non-ferrrous targets in iron, while at the same time ignoring the iron.

That's about all I can help you with on your Excalibur, and I'm sure the guys who use an Excalibur on a regular basis will chime in and correct anything I've said, because my experience is with the Sovereign GT, but the Excalibur is for the most part just a waterproof Sovereign. I've used a friend's Excal to land hunt here and there but it's been a while since doing that. Last exposure I had to it was when I fixed a coil for him and played around with the Excal in my backyard for a bit.

I can tell you this one little tip- When the targets dry up at the beach, some Excal guys feel hunting in pin point mode gets them even deeper in their sand. Some others say it doesn't for them, so I think it might be sand/soil related. Only way to know is to try yourself. If you are finding no more targets in discriminate in a spot you've gridded numerous time, can't hurt to flip it into PP mode and see if you can find more. Only problem is that with fresh water lakes iron doesn't rot as fast as it does on salt water beaches, so you might find yourself digging 100 bobby pins before you find anything else, and have only moved say 30 feet in an hour's time, depending on the site and how much iron is present.

 

[beachdude]

Thanks Critterhunter! That answered all of my questions! But here's one more...
What kind of hunt time can I get out of:

a) The fully charged battery

b) the alkaline battery pack with fresh batteries

 

[Critterhunter]

A lot of this info is in the Sovereign/Excalibur Batteries Sticky, but here's a quick run down...From memory the Sovereign and so I would assume the Excal because it's just a waterproof Sovereign, draws around 50 to 69ma or so. So do the math. What is the capacity of the stock rechargeable pack you have? Assuming it's 1000ma like the Sovereign (isn't it 800ma on the Excal?) divide the amp draw into the capacity. 1000ma / 50ma = about 20 hours of run time. But if you've charged the pack and it's sat for a while, like say a week or more, the capacity will drain over time, so don't expect to get that full 20 hours out of it. Some nimhs/nicads are worse than others at self draining on the shelf, so run time will vairy.

For me, if I'm hunting say 3 five hour days on a 1000ma pack in a week, that's about all I'll push my luck and time for a re-charge, but especially when new it's good to run a nimh or nicad pack down as far as possible for say the first 5 chargings. That will excercise the pack and get more run time out of it. I also like to do this say about 2 or 3 times a year. Many people strongly believe a nimh or nicad should never be drained all the way dead, but I fall into the camp of draining them dead on a car tail light bulb 2 or 3 times a year, and re-charging about 3 or 4 times in a row, to fully excercise the pack and keep it in top shape.

Many won't do this, because there is a risk of the pack reversing polarity. Never had that happen myself, because IMO the odds of that happening are exist to a large extent if I let the pack sit dead for say days after it's been drained. So long as I charge it right away I've never had that problem, and I feel it's the only way to get the most capacity out of the pack myself, but again some others don't agree with doing that kind of full drain. That debate has been going on on the web among the RC plane/car crowd for years, so take your pick as to what you believe is the best way to do it. I make no claims to being right about how I feel about it. It's just what I do with my packs, and I'm sure others have had problems so they have good reason to feel the way they do about not draining a pack that far down.

Even if I drain it until the light bulb goes dead, I'll let the pack sit hooked up to the bulb for about another 30 minutes or so, and once the load (light bulb) is removed, the pack starts springing back up in voltage right away anyway, so I don't fear the reverse polarity thing myself, especially since I then right away throw it back on the charger. But many say you are risking reverse polarity of a cell doing that, so you might want to heed that advice and not follow my routine. Just running the pack to the low battery alarm on a hunt 4 or 5 times in a row should be enough to excercise it and get the capacity increased, both when new and also as a way to condition the pack a few times a year (done say 3 to 5 times in a row on sequential hunts).

The alkaline pack with fresh batteries run time? Look in the manual and see what it says. If you don't have a manual in the Excalibur Accesseries sticky (or at least in the Sovereign one) there is a link to Minelab's web page with all the manuals for the Sovereigns and Excals listed. I run a 3 cell lipo in my GT for weight savings and other perks, so I don't know off hand what kind of run time to expect. I'm sure others with Excals will chime in and tell you what kind of run time they get with certain brand name batteries. You might also look into the Energizer Lithium batteries. They are more expensive than regular AAs, but in addition to being lighter they also will give I think Energizer claims 3 to 4 times the run time, so the longer run time more than makes up for the slightly extra cost.

How long to charge? Look on your wall transformer for it's MA output. Let's say it's 100ma. Divide that into the capacity of the pack and that's roughly how long to charge a dead pack. Overshoot it by an hour or so, because the charging process is not very efficient so it often takes longer than the math says, and also good cells often hold more capacity than the label says, by say maybe 300ma or so on a 1000ma pack.

You can also figure out roughly how much capacity was taken out of a fully charged pack on a hunt. Figure maybe 60ma average for current drain while hunting, so multiply that by the # of hours hunted, and then divide that # by the output of your wall transformer, and now you have an idea of how long it should take to charge the pack back up to full capacity again. Again, I'd overshoot that # by say an hour or so just to make up for the inefficient charging process. Also consider how long the pack has sat on the shelf. If it's been weeks maybe another 400ma or so is probably drained. Add that into the math.

Far as I know (?) the Excalibur pack/wall transformer doesn't indicate when the pack is fully charged, so you might want to look into an aftermarket charger that will clearly show when the pack is done. Some guys in threads in the Battery sticky links to have some info on that for what they like to use for their Excal packs. Just make sure the amp rate isn't say 1C (equal to the capacity of the pack, or for example 1 amp for a 1000ma pack, or .8 amps for an 800ma pack) or higher, because that tends to shorten the life of the pack. Especially if the pack is inside the POD and is getting hot from too high of a charge rate. Feel the pack while charging. Hot? It's being charged too fast. Luke warm is OK, but in general heat destroys a pack over time.

I'd shoot for say 1/2C (1/2 capacity) or less at the most for most charging. In a hurry if the charger lets you set the amp rate 1C should be OK here and there provided the pack isn't getting hot. I think I remember Kered saying anyway that the Excal stock pack has a thermistor in it, so if you try to charge too fast and it gets hot, the thermistor will pop and the charging will be interupted. Once it cools back down it'll re-make the connection, but that's a safety feature and should never be used to govern charging. Thermistors have a limited life, so one day it'll pop and never re-make that connection.

Some guys are using an aftermarket 1600ma nimh pack in the POD, which I think should just about double your run time over the stock pack, but if you use the stock charger and say it's 100ma, that means 16 hours to charge it. The wall transformer is putting out a trickle charge, which is pointless for being easy on the battery. And another thing, unlike nicads, nimhs don't like being trickle charged once they are fully peaked, so over time that could shorten the pack life if you let it sit on the wall transformer for many hours after the pack is fully charged.

I'm only going from what little I've read on the Excal batteries since I never owned one. If you look in the Battery sticky you'll find links to a few of Kered's threads where he goes into specifics more, and also to other threads where other Excalibur guys give their advice on both the stock wall transformer (charger), and using aftermarket ones. Being that I've never played with an Excal stock rechargeable pack, don't take my advice and confirm it on your own by reading what they have to say in those threads, and I'm also sure some others will probably chime in here and set you straight on anything I may have had a bit wrong.

 

[dewcon4414]

Ive hunted many a 8 hour day with a charged battery pod. Those AA pods are water resistant..... not proof according to ML. However, i believe its because we take them apart not because they leak. Sorry, but i dont agree with the put it in auto until you learn it. Get out there you shoulld be able to run it in fresh water at 6 o'clock and take advantage of the depth. There is always a disadvantage of to much sensitivity and its not always falsing..... hitting deep iron causes coil shut down as well. The Xcal is so good on disc out iron that you arent going to get nearly the wrap around you do on land machines which cause that high tone false off iron. Bottle caps seem to be the real pain.... but once you learn the BONG they give shallow then you want to dig most anything that chirps. False signals are quickly learned..... especially when MOST dont repeat or move. That changing of PITCH in the threshold is PITCH HOLD many of the MLs have it, but the Explores/ET can opt not to use it. It was designed for the gold fields where you might miss weak signial. Some find it irritating ..... but after awhile you get used to it.

Dew

 

[Critterhunter]

Everybody of course has different opinions and that's what is so great about these forums to share and decide. I fall in the camp that says the fastest/easiest way to learn how the Sovereign or Excal should act when stable is by running it in Auto for a while. Of course it won't get the depth of most manual settings but that isn't as important to somebody learning the machine as to learning how it should act for you.

20 or 30 minutes of running in Auto at a new site for the first week or so of learning the machine I think is a good idea for anybody new to the BBS machines, or any machine for that matter. Even with all my prior detector experience I still found my GT a very different beast and somewhat frustrating for the first several hunts, so running it in Auto for a bit at every new site for a while I felt really helped me to learn how the machine should normally act.

The nulling due to iron was very confusing to me because I always liked to hunt with not even iron discriminated out so I could hear everything while trying to map out a site in my head. With iron nulling on this machine I didn't know whether that was being caused by iron or by the machine being unstable due to too high of a sensitivity setting. I felt by using Auto for a while at the start of every new hunt really helped show and remind me how the Sovereign should behave when stable. Running sensitivity real high near the edge of stability too can be a bit frustrating for somebody learning a machine because on any machine that tends to cause iron to give off false non-ferrous target hits more.

I guess though if you cranked manual all the way down it might be as stable as Auto (sometimes it won't be though) and will
give you more depth than Auto might be able to, but I've found sometimes depending on where Auto sets it's self it will get about the depth of 3 to 4PM or so on the dial when I test it against manual.

 

[hershey1]

Set your sensitivity where you get a good threshold that is stable. Auto is fine if you are finding stuff but as you get more experience on your Excall you may want to move it. I usually start with mine around 11 o'clock in fresh water but salt water I will crank it up until the machine starts falsing then back it down to get a stable threshold. When you think your threshold is low enough then go a little lower. If your threshold breaks investigate because something is down there. Moving a little sand may bring a target signal up. Sweep speed is also VERY important with the Excall. A nickle is good to test with as it's tones are similar to gold. Good luck with your new machine it will reward you. HH

 

[dewcon4414]

Ive got a tad bit of experience myself on numerious machines. Everyones learning curve or CAMP is different. Im just a fly by the seat of my pants kind of hunter..... but i find stuff.

Dew

 

[beachdude]

I still can't find out how long I can hunt with the Alkaline pod with fresh batteries in it... Not in the manual or anywhere I can see.... It would be nice information to know.

Also, they say rechargeable cells don't work in the alkaline pack as the voltage is too low to run the Excalibur. Is this actually true?

Finally can you use NiZn batteries in the Alkaline pack? Or will the higher voltage burn out the detector...

 

[Critterhunter]

Just time your run time with alkalines and then you'll know for sure. Those zinc based cells are I think 1.5V still aren't they? If not then I think they are perhaps 1.6V? That shouldn't be an issue. I've ran Energizer lithium AA non-rechargeables in my GT before I went lipo and they didn't give me any issues, but by the same token a friend tried them in his Etrac and it gave an over voltage error. Now he just runs them in a flashlight or something for a few minutes to take the edge off the voltage and then his Etrac accepts them just fine.

Be aware those zinc based rechargeables need a special charger. I think Rayovac is the leader in that technology and they sell them and the charger at Walmart. Also be aware that at least about 5 years ago they were having issues with bad cells or not getting as long of life out of them as nimhs. Might be a non-issue by now.

A note on the lithium based non-rechargeable AAs. They are a bit more expensive than regular AAs but much lighter and I think Energizer claims something like 3 to 4 times the run time, so well worth the extra cost. But, I think detectors use linear based regulators which waste off excess voltage onto a heat sink. Might be on a hot day the regulator might shut down on thermal overload. If that happens it will appear the detector just goes dead, and if you turn it off and are lucky it will work again when the thermal overload resets after it cools down. But, linear regulators usually have a fairly wide tolerance window for input voltage. Maybe as high as say 14.5V or so for a regulator designed to run on 8AAs (12V), but don't take my word for it as there is no way to know unless you opened the machine, read the regulator model #, and looked up it's specs.