It's one of "those" gold rings!

[BarnacleBill]

I have a certain number of test targets I keep to experiment and practice with. Several are gold rings of various shapes, sizes, and "K value" to gauge the reaction of various machines. Several years ago Fisher did a study on gold rings, and published information that stated, that the vast majority would fall within the mid-conductivity/mid-tone on a CZ series, and a few on the higher conductivity/hi-tone. For those that have never used a CZ, a hi-tone usually means you have a coin silver/copper or silver ring etc. under your coil.

I am out one day with my CZ20 and finding lots of zincs(hi-tone) that day, when the next hi-tone happened to be the thin gold ring you see. Wow, never expected to find one of those gold rings that read hi-tone, but beats the H--- out of finding zincs! So I brought it home and into my test group it went.

A few days ago I was testing, and was reminded by the CZ20 that this thin gold ring rang as hi-tone, and thought to myself, I should test this with the Excel to see how high up the conductivity scale it is. Is it a little above a nickel, or way above a nickel, which is about the breakpoint between mid and hi tone on a CZ.

So below, you see two yellow gold rings both stamped 14KP, P=Plumb which means they should be 14K or greater. The thick ring reads mid-tone no matter what it's orientation and distance from the CZ coil, and the thin ring likewise hi-tone. The diameters of the rings are close, and the thick ring should be more conductive, but is not on the CZ.

So I fired up the Excel, and guess what? The thin ring reads +10 and the thick ring +15! The opposite of what the CZ says, and now my head hurts!

BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Bill,

I have never used a CZ-20 but understand nickels read high tone like on all CZ's. Could that be the case on the thin ring??
Tom

 

[Tony (NC)]

Related to the Salt mode? Just a thought.

 

[BarnacleBill]

most nickels do, but some tone back and forth mid to high. What I term lake varnish, sometimes brown in color(iron?), other times greenish, and how the nickel sits appears to have some effect. And my thought was to see how far above the breakover point the thin ring was. I was expecting +11>+13 on the thin ring and +04>+08 on the thick ring. But the thick ring +5 points higher on the Excel???

Now the complaints about CZ's and deep iron giving a high coin tone are legion, and may correlate with my observations. So, in the CZ circuit design , is there a particular phase angle that is problematic? There may be a point where the 5Khz and 15Khz signals need to be integrated that could lead to some challenges filtering wise.

Now anecdotally if you have a CZ and Excel, what are you going to reach for if after deep silver? CZ hands down, but venture into thick iron, Excel no question.

Now I believe on th 3D, there is some discussion about switching back and forth from standard to salt for some reasons, which I haven't followed closely, may be related to ID'ing correctly or not. Is that action an effort to compensate for what I have observed?

I just further tested the rings w/ the BH QDII and S-RayII. The BH says the thin ring is a nickel, and thick one a Tab. On the Ray the thin falls out at 5.5 disc and the thick at 6.5. It may be my CZ, so Tom if you know anybody trustworthy with an analog and a digital CZ, I would be happy to send the thin ring to them if they would be willing to check it. I have just found the Excel to be so damned accurate, that I tend to believe it.

Now today is my wife's birthday and I am very happy, uh, not because it's her birthday, BUT BECAUSE I JUST FOUND OUT THE LOCATION OF AN OLD UNMARKED Boy Scout Camp, YAHHOOO!!! This deserves a fresh set of batteries for the Excel!

Old detectorists never die, they are just disc'ed out.

BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Bill,

Just from looking at the rings and based on what I have found in the past, the ID Excel appears to be right in its ID and it follows since the other machines read the two of them in the same conductive order. The fact that it reads as a 10 on the Excel confirms, in my mind, that the CZ20 is reading it as a nickel hence the high tone.

Question for you Bill, Have you ever dug the faint iron tones on the CZ20 in the deep sand areas when wading?

Tom

 

[BarnacleBill]

Yes always(qualified), run audio vol at 6(slight boost). Strong iron(low tone, chatter) gets ignored. Weak iron, pinpoint w/VCO to confirm, kick some sand away, if hardpack take half a shovel out. Re-check with disc, if tone goes up, dig. If just stronger iron, move on. I have found many deep/old coins this way, which are probably out of the reach of most machines.

Now last winter, I made some posts on the Beach&W forum which people probably found hard to believe. I was digging in frozen sand at the ocean. Consistency of hard ice cream, where the sand does not fall back in the hole, or the sides collapse. If I take out two 11" spade fulls straight down and the target is stll deeper, what does that tell you? To get my foot in position for the third shovel full, I would have to widen out the hole so that I looked like I was digging a foxhole. Got lots of strange looks from the hikers and runners. Corroded zinc pennies were the main culprits, but I did find some larger rings(HS Class etc). And I have an 8 inch coil, but I can run sens at "10" which most CZ's can't seem to.

By the way, I have not tryed hunting with the Excel in AM, have you? Any extra depth? They are going to drop one of the lakes I frequent 3.5ft the start of Sept., I have visions of sugar plums with the Excel. In my state, anything below the customary high water mark is state property, therefore I will have free access to private resort beaches, all I have to do is walk a little.

BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Bill,

I have never really checked the all metal depth on the Excel. One of these days I will try in out in a non trashy area and see. I have a heck of a time just trying to find a clean spot to GB it in the typical areas I hunt, so all metal isn't much use.

When I waded with the CZ5 it did not take me long to figure out that some of those faint iron hits were goodies. That applies right up thru the latest CZ70 Pro I had. I wonder if the 3D is any different?

Tom