It's Been Said Before But It's Worth Saying Again- Slow Down!

[Critterhunter]

I just read a thread elsewhere about a guy who had a back and leg injury that required him to hunt very slow until things healed. He said he couldn't even walk across the park, so he hunted a small patch of grass closest to the parking lot. I believe he said he had a Sovereign (I think) but he said that he used a cheap $90 Bounty Hunter while healing because it was so light.

Anyway, he said he crawled along and just inched the coil forward a tiny bit at a time. He ended up with a whole big pile of silver out of that small area over several hunts while his body healed. Barber quarters and so on. It was a pile for sure. I believe he said he had worked this area pretty hard in the past but never took things REAL slow like this and just bearly inching the coil forward a little at a time.

Just goes to show that even with a cheap machine if you are willing to slow down you can make some amazing finds at "hunted out" sites. The most important ground should be the ground right in front of your feet and not what you are looking at (and shouldn't be) that is 20 yards away. Of course this is even more important with the Sovereign and other Minelabs because they perform best when used at a snail's past. Not only that, but next time you hit a real deep target swing your coil like you are normaly hunting and move it just a little forward or backwards from the target as you swing. If it's super deep you'll notice that you only get a decent enough hit to really notice when you are swinging right over it with the very center of the coil.

While that's more important with concentric coils, it's still very important to overlap your sweeps a good bit with a DD coil when looking for that ultra deep stuff. Not only that, but a lot of badly masked coins are only going to sound off when the coil is in just the right spot, not too far forward or too far back from where the coil will hit, as there could be iron in front or behind it or other trash that will simply mask that coin unless the coil is at the perfect spot to see the coin while not seeing the junk in it's detection field.

Also, the next time you hit on a super deep target try keeping your normal hunting sweep over it but vary the speed from lower to faster. Notice which speed gives the best initial hit on the target and then mimic that speed while hunting the rest of the time at that site. This speed can change a little from site to site depending on not only the ground minerals, but also on how high sensitivity is set. I've noticed and heard others say that a real high sensitivity setting wants an even slower sweep speed, while a real low sensitivity setting tends to want the speed picked up a bit for hardest initial hit while hunting in general at depth.

Of course once you've located a deep signal the best ID and audio will be with short sweeps or wiggles over it only an inch to 4" or so in distance. Some times it's odd but it wants wiggles, and at other times more of a short sweep. The speed also can vairy. Best way to tell is just try wiggling or short sweeping over it and changing the speed to see which gives the most locked-on stable ID and good audio. The site will tell you what it wants.

I'm trying to make this slow way down and only advance by an inch or two or so at a time thing my new religion. I find that whenever I crawl along I seem to make my best finds, but when I get in a hurry to "get over there" I tend to go home without any goodies. I already like to keep my sweep width only about as wide as my feet so the coil stays flush with the ground and I have better control. I only sweep wider than that when I'm beach hunting and trying to grid off a wide patch of ground, or when hunting through the woods looking for any signal at all to indicate an area of activity.

 

[gear box]

Very well said Critter. Thats what I have found out also. I enjoy going back to the same places I went to years ago and others have hit many times and finding the one or two deep or masked coins that have been missed. Usually these will be good quality older coins. Force yourself to slow down.
Good luck Gary

 

[Critterhunter]

Yep, and it's a struggle of will to force yourself to go as slow as this guy was talking about. I'm sure many of us hunt slow, or what we think is slow, but this guy is talkiing about crawling at an inch or so at a time in coil advancement as you slowly sweep. I have to admit even I don't do that, but I'm going to try my hardest to at pounded out sites for now one and see what gives.

 

[Raven69]

Good advice Critter, I see people trying to cover as much ground as possible that I'm sure good deep targets are missed.

Reminds me of a friend I used to scuba dive with, we would get in the water and he would be off like a rocket to look all over the place. Where as for me I would have my camera and I would just poke along slowly looking under ledges and around rocks and sponges. At the end of a dive I would show him my pictures and he would be like, where did you see that or I didn't see any of those!

Sure I didn't cover as much ground but I certainly got see some of amazing little organisms that live down there.


HH

 

[deepdiger60]

I cant argue that low n slow even though iam 6-5 it aint easy walking slow for every 10 steps i take i travel just over 20 feet any slower ill be trippin over my coil , once a week the local HS marks out one of the soccer fields with white chalk ive hunted that spot for 2 years and still find deep old coins mostly clad from the 60,s and 70,s i dont think there was 1 time i left there with out some coins or jewelry swing slow is right Critter
Best find from that soccer field 2 years ago was a HS Gold Grad. ring 1971 and returned to owner who moved to Tenn. it was 9 inches deep and passed over dozens of times by me and my partner until that day trying my new GT . Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Great find! Got a story for you. A couple years ago I took the GT for it's first beach hunt at a local small lake. Within a couple of minutes I find a gold class ring from I think the 40's! Couldn't believe my luck. First signal if I remember right. Just got there. I noticed an area about 5 foot square of highly disturbed and pushed around sand and walked right over to it and BAMO! Gold ring. I'm thinking it was either brought to the surface from somebody digging deep playing at that spot, or somebody lost it messing around in that sand like that.

 

[Critterhunter]

Just another few thoughts related to this topic...First, when you hit something that sounds deep and soft don't just go by the initial hit you get from it as being trash if it lingers in the low numbers. You need to wiggle right on top of it and see if the ID climbs or locks on. Deep coins can linger in the low numbers until you get right on top of them and do a constant wiggle or very short sweeps. Also, at the very fringes a deep coin might now make it to 180. As Ron or Rick says the key is that if it locks onto a lower ID then it's that target ID, but if it keeps trying to climb but won't sit on any ID # for good then it could very well be a super deep coin at the outter edges of depth that is trying to climb for you. Does it sound deep enough to be giving you that problem? If not and it won't lock onto one ID then it's probably an odd shaped piece of junk. But if it sounds super deep and doesn't lock into an ID then perhaps it's a coin just out of ID range. Also, pay attention to the audio. If it has some high tones (coin tones) mixed in with lower ones as you wiggle then that might hint to it being a super deep coin.

Also, if it sounds deep enough to be silver then it pays to work your way all the way around the target. It could be a masked coin or one on edge that will only give a good coin ID in one tight spot. These days I get more excited about those types of coin signals than good ones, as mostly those masked or on edge silvers are the only ones left at pounded out sites, besides the super deep stuff of course. Even if the coin signal nulls the rest of the way around it, or is shallow but funky from all directions but one spot, I like to dig those...As even shallow it could be an on edge or badly masked coin. These days I'm more pumped about finding those one way or iffy coin signals than anything else, but admittedly I don't dig them as often as I should. Instead, I waste my time for hours looking for classic deep coin signals. That can pay off at spots where good coins could be super deep due to good soil and thus out of the range of other detectors, but if the soil prevents coins from sinking much more than 7 or 8" then just about any machine has already found those. Time to start looking for the masked or on edge funky/iffy/scratchy/nulling signals. That's where the pay dirt is in terms of potential old coins still being left at the site.

Beyond all the above stuff, it's also important to say once again that even a non-masked coin at decent depth can easily be missed by most hunters, simply because they aren't overlapping their sweeps by only advancing by say an inch or two at the most at a time. Those real deep ones, let alone the badly masked ones, might only show themselves in one particular tight spot that is easily missed if you aren't advancing the coil in inches like 99% of most hunters simply won't do.

The one way, nulling, junky from all directions but one coins are of course often going to be iron or other junk, but with more practice you'll get good at the audio and ID traits that mean it could very well be a masked coin, versus an iron false or a piece of junk. The easiest one for me right now is just how good the coin signal is and how easy it is to get in one spot. If it's classic and clean, regardless of if it nulls or gets funky the rest of the way around, I often find out that those really are coins. It's just too good and easy of a signal in one spot. You'll just "know" it's a coin on edge or masked. Also, usually iron false hits will sound ghostly or take time to get to 180 even though they don't sound super deep to be giving you problems like that. Also, I often find coins on edge have a very distinct up/down or high/low back and fourth sound to them as you wiggle over them, but usually give a good coin signal in one spot around them. The audio of them being on edge though is very distinct and different than most trash that can give a back and fourth coin signal similar, but not quite like that.

 

[Critterhunter]

As usual I've probably clouded the issue by saying too much....So in summary...

If it sounds deep enough to be giving you trouble to lock onto an ID then it could be a coin, but if it does lock onto an ID then it's probably the true nature of the target. IE: If it locks onto a lower number it's probably that, but if it sounds deep and won't settle on an ID (or especially if it's trying to climb) then it could be a coin just out of proper ID range ability.

If it doesn't sound too deep but is bouncing around in ID then it's probably trash, unless of course it's a masked coin. Try working all the way around it and see if it will give a coin ID in one particular spot.

It's hard to keep all these criteria (depth and ID reaction) straight in your mind while hunting. Just try to think logical about it. Does it sound deep enough to not lock onto the right ID and be bouncing around (particularly if you can see it's trying to climb)? If not then it's more than likely odd shaped trash. Even if it sounds deep enough, is it locking onto an ID in the lower range? Then you can assume it's probably it's proper ID.

I'd also argue that the most important way (of course) to learn these various traits of audio and ID, and also whether it may be a coin masked or in trash, is by digging those targets and gaining experience. More importantly, though, I would say to take your time and work the target all the way around it. Really sit there and "soak in" the audio and ID traits and reactions of the target and make a good clear memory of what it's doing BEFORE digging it up. Too often I'll dig up a target without really remembering exactly what the ID and audio was doing. When I find out it's a good coin find I'll often get mad with myself for not taking the time to really soak in what the traits of that target's audio and ID are. Taking that time to really absorb all the fine detail about how it acts is probably the best teaching tool there is to really learn your machine, and just what might be a super deep or badly masked coin or one on edge, versus other traits that indicate it's probably trash or iron.

I look at it like people I fish with. Some of my friends like to use a big heavy strong rod with strong fishing line. They fish all day and when they finally hook a fish they try to horse it in as fast as possible. To me that's cheating yourself out of the experience. That's why I favor light weight fishing tackle. I won't to enjoy the fight and experience it as much as possible. Why rush that thing you've been waiting for all day?

Same deal with coin hunting for the old stuff. Stop and enjoy the roses before digging up that target. Not only take the time to see how the ID and audio acts all the way around it, but now's a good time (especially on really deep stuff) to learn the controls and what they do on your machine. Try lowering or raising sensitivity and see what that does. Try flipping it over to Silent Search. Then try in Silent Search raising the threshold so that it's now audible again. Some have speculated that doing this might act like a signal boost and give a more robust or louder response to the audio on the target. I have to admit I keep forgetting to try that in the field on something super deep to prove one way or the other if it has merit or not. Also, play with discrimination and such. Maybe even try changing from the usual noise band 2 everybody uses (to match the charts) to band 1 and see if that alters the quality of the hit on the target. There is much talk in the Etrac forum about different noise channels giving harder hits on certain targets. Also, try raising sensitivity to where it's a good bit unstable and see if that improves that hit at depth or degrades the target ID. See how low sensitivity can go before the target is gone. You might be surprised to find out that a lower sensitivity setting in certain soils gives a better ID on the target at depth. Especially when using a larger coil due to the ground glare thing, as I found this was true with my 15x12. As said, try a normal sweep length over the target like you are hunting and then speed up or slow down a bit to see what speed gives the hardest hit.

In short, take your time and smell the roses. Those coins aren't going to go anywhere. I feel this is by far the best way to really learn the abilities and controls of your machine. Now I just have to remember to do this stuff myself on those deep good ones, and even the deep iffy ones.

 

[gear box]

Another thing is now and again you will get a tone change that say's this is a good target, maybe even deep but after a couple or a few sweeps on that spot that you just got the tone on,you will find that you can't seem to pinpoint it. Make a couple of large sweeping passes over the area and you will find out that you are on the edge of a larger target that is not a coin and it's time to move on.
Good luck Gary

 

[Critterhunter]

That's a good tip. That's the first thing I do whenever I get a signal...First thing I do is move the coin around the spot in a bigger circle to make sure I'm not picking up a false or reflection off a large target nearby. However, don't just assume it's that. Try to sniff around with the tip right at the spot you got the "false hit" and see if it's really there or not. If you edge at it from a couple directions and it's sounding off at the same spot then it's probably a real target, but if you only get a hit from one direction then it's probably a false. Only practice will tell you which is which.

 

[Tin Fin]

Ok, so I been reading these posts about slowing down, and I do slow down, and sometime 'the grass is greener' cause I have long legs and see a shady spot I want to cool off in but still detect. Given that, here's another thought as to WHY slowing down makes a difference with the GT. I been reading about Shaun's amp - and I got me one on the way!!!

But, in reading Shaun's posts - he states very clearly that the 17 frequencies is a square signal, that starts on the high end, and works its way to the low end, then repeats. Also, the processor has MineLab code written in it that interprets these signals.

Now, I know a little about electronics, not a whole lot, but some, and it makes sense that, fast as electricity is, processors still need time. Working with computers like we all do, we know that a laptop or box can get dogged-down for a variety of reasons. The GT has to have the time for the signals to be produced, emitted, reflected, get back to the processors, and then get interpreted, decoded and then signals sent to the headphones. By going too fast, the machine can't do it's job because it can get dogged-down with changing the information its trying to process; when that happens, we can't find so much good stuff because the processors just go "blahhhhh - I don't know what to do with all this garbage you are feeding me" on us.

So, to me, it's not just a matter of slowing down to properly interpret the whispers; it's also about giving the machine the time it needs to do the thing it does best, which is to use a wide range of tones to understand Where Ground is, What Ground is, and What is something other than Ground; then it tries to determine if it's ferrous or non-ferrous, and where in that range the non-ground item is. We - our brains - also have to interpret what the machine is telling us, and that takes time too; the machine has a lot to tell us, if we give it the time it needs.

I don't think ML can put a faster processor into the thing, or they would have done so by now probably - or if they could and haven't, it's because it would drive the price up prohibitively. And doing something like that on your own just isn't a good idea given that their code is protected and they aren't going to give it out to us anyway.

But, it can also be a meditative process to go slow, and in the process, letting the machine find its groove, so you can find your groove in a given area. I think there will always be targets out there for us to find, if we give the GT and its counterparts the due it needs to do the best job it can.

Just my two Wheaties here... I'm still an newb with it.

 

[OldBeechnut]

Tin Fin let me know how Shauns Amp works for you...I've used mine at the beach, it was like a reflecting signal...every swing was a hit in front of me, then I realized that the lowest point of my swing was the point of falsing. Someday I may give it another try. So it would be interesting to see how others have faired. I did use it on land with a very noticable increase......... think I could get a freshly buried penny at 13...thanks joe

 

[Critterhunter]

Tin Fin, excellent thoughts. Having had a lot of machines over the years, most of them allowed fast sweeping and even required a faster sweep for the best/deepest hit, in particular a few Whites models. For that reason I kind of had to struggle with the slow sweep of my Explorers and GT. Only on the GT has being required to sweep slow started to grow on me and now I prefer it to a fast sweep machine. Mainly, because I feel a slow recovery speed isn't really an issue if you sweep slow enough, but more importantly because I feel a slow recovery machine seems to have more ability to "see" and hit harder on coins at extreme depth. You can hover over a target and really drink in a more intense look of it without the machine trying to fastly reset. I really believe the key to extreme depth (in my experience anyway) is a slower machine that can take a longer look at something super deep. At the very least, even if that's not true (I think it is though), then for sure at least some slower machines will do a better job of sounding off at a deep target, compared to a fast "chirp" or "blip" that some fast machines will only give as you quickly pass over a super deep target.

As for Shaun's amp, I've heard mixed reviews and think it's due to the minerals it's used it. Some say they get more depth and it's stable, while others have told me that it was unusable or required sensitivity to be turned so low that there were no gains in depth. The problem is that the transmit signal on a detector can usually only go so high in power to really seen any real gains in depth. That's why it's fixed on most machines, as adjusting sensitivity is just increasing or decreasing the gain of the received signal and not adjusting the TX power. The fixed TX power on most machines is there for a very good reason. It's been optimized for best depth in most situations, because there is a point past that where you get diminishing returns on increased output power. Probably due to I would figure the "glare" or reflection of the signal off the ground minerals I would think, or perhaps due to the delicate balance between the tuning of the TX and RX coils. Still, Shaun's Amp is for sure worth taking a chance on and I would myself if I had the money sitting around doing nothing. The only way to know if it will work in your soil is to try it.

For those who don't know, Shaun's amp goes between the coil and the control box and it increases the voltage to the TX winding in the coil. Most "amps" you ever hear about are just audio amplifiers and so largely useless on many of today's detectors with volume control built in.