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It Only Takes An Inch. An Inch Of Extra Depth, Or Missing A Coin That Is An Inch To The Side Of Your Coil.

Critterhunter

New member
Been kicking this around in my head for some reason for the last few days and thought I'd write out a little segment on it. For some stupid reason the phrase "It Only Takes An Inch" has come to mind here and there for the last few days. Since I'm out of meds at the moment, :biggrin: I thought I'd just run with it and hack out a few thoughts on the subject...

First, I'm sure many of us have seen other hunters who swing with the coil way off the ground. Even if they aren't very bad at that, they often are still hunting with the coil just a bit higher than they probably should for best depth. Now, I'm not one to scrub the ground as I feel it ends up costing you depth via falsing and noise caused by the coil being bumped or slid around on it. On the other hand, I try to hunt with the coil just kissing the top of the grass as that's my general rule of thumb for easy swinging, less fatigue, and less falsing caused by coil chatter. Just like riding sensitivity too high making the machine unstable, if you are causing the machine to false or chirp here and there by scrubbing the ground it could very easily cost you depth and not give you more. But, by the same token, I don't want to get too high. And, even though some people do a good job of keeping the coil right near the ground, often even these people will lift the coil at both ends of the sweep. I don't try to cover a wide patch of ground like that with a wide sweep unless sometimes when I'm beach hunting and gridding out a large area. Instead, I only worry about the ground right in front of my feet, and rarely sweep my coil any wider than my two feet for best coil control and coverage. It's also less fatigue as you can keep your back straight and not be reaching from one side to the other trying to cover a larger area.

Also, on machines where you set a fixed ground balance, it's important to ground balance at the height you plan to sweep while hunting. Kissing the ground with the coil when you aren't hunting that close I feel throws off the ground balance of the machine somewhat, or at least I think it has the potential to do that.

Anyway, back to the other aspect of the topic that's been kicking around in my head for a few days. You ever hunt a hard hit park and happen on a nice clean coin signal only a few inches deep or so, and out pops a nice old silver? Ever wonder just why nobody ever dug that coin long ago, as it wasn't masked and was shallow enough that most machines on the market could have easily have seen it? Well, I'm sure a few of those are due to various things. Such as the coin being on edge at one time or deeper, but that the frozen ground moved it flat or brought it closer to the surface. Or, there could have been a piece of iron masking that coin that finally degraded and washed away in the soil to reveal it.

But, there is one other possibility and probably the more likely reason why that coin has never been found before. That being that nobody simply ever passed their coil over it. Think about it. It only takes your coil missing that coin by an inch and you never even heard it. Or, you might have even nicked it with the side of the coil, but your machine gave a bad response that sounded like trash simply because it didn't get a good look at it. This is even more true for coins at depth, because often a deeper coin will not give a good response until you pass over it with the very center of the coil.

And further into this point...Next time you are at one of your favorite hunting sites and feel there is no "easy" silver left to be found there, take a good long look around the place. Chances are the site is rather large, but even at a smaller one do you know what kind of meticulous person it would take to cover every square inch of that soil there? Most hunters, even the best of them who make great finds every day, don't cover the ground in such a detailed way as to insure not missing spots. Even if they do grid, unless you are using stakes and strings to mark off areas it's very easy to wander out of your row. In fact, even using string and markers to grid a box at a time, it's still rather easy to not cover the ground properly with each sweep insuring you didn't leave a gap between your last sweep and this one. And, even if you make a good effort to not leave gaps between sweeps...Are you overlapping your sweeps enough to insure that the center of the coil is covering most of that ground on each pass? While it's more important with a concentric to overlap your sweeps, it's still true for a DD coil, in particular for deeper targets. The center of the coil will get you the best depth, and also the best response on a target that might otherwise only null or sound like junk if the center of the coil hadn't seen it. Also, these coins don't even have to be all that deep for that to happen. They could be masked or on edge, and only will sing "coin" when you've got the coil in just the right spot sweeping over them.

So, no matter how capable you think your machine is or isn't, chances are nobody has hunted that "dead" site with as much intention as you could...If you just go in there with the right mindset and will power to take your time. Don't be worried about what is "over there" 20 yards away. The most important ground is the one right in front of your feet. Don't even worry about what's two feet to your side. Just worry about the ground right in front of your toes. Cover that well first, and then move on. Overlap your sweeps, not even by just half, but try to crawl forward only inches at a time. That alone can make all the difference. Remember, you are trying to find a coin roughly half an inch in surface area among acres of "inches" spread all over the place. Give that some serious thought, and then next time your hunting you might resist the urge to "get over there", and take the time to see what potential finds might only be one inch away.

The next time you happen along what you think is going to turn out to be a silver or some other old coin. Take a moment to sweep around that spot in a sloppy way without trying to get right over it on purpose. I bet you'll notice that you don't even hear that coin on most of those "drunken" sweeps in the general area. And, if you do hear it, I'll bet good money it doesn't sound like anything but trash until you've "just by chance" swept right over it with the center of the coil. Even still, even if you do happen to sweep right over it, depending on it's depth or being masked, I bet some of these coins won't even give you a coin signal until you've centered and wiggled right over them to isolate the signal from the surrounding ground or any nearby trash. For that reason too, when hunting "in inches", don't use assume with a good solid center sweep over something that by the sound it's just trash. Especially if it sounds deep, or maybe mixed in trash but "hinting" to a high tone, make sure you center and wiggle right over it before deciding it is indeed just another piece of junk.

For the deeper hits I always check them out by getting right over them and wiggling, and often only then will that "trash" tone rise and become a "coin" high tone. I must admit I don't usually take this kind of time with shallower "trash". With the deep signals I don't care what kind of tone it gives at first, but with the shallower stuff I'll only investigate further if I hear a hint of a high tone mixed in with the lows. Perhaps I should take more time to wiggle through and around the shallow junk even if I don't at first hear a hint of coin mixed in there, as a coin can easily not give that high tone unless you are in the perfect spot to see it mixed in the trash. But, on the other hand, if you are hunting "in inches", you don't have to worry about that so much with the shallower stuff, as your slow advancement in inches with the coil will more than likely fish that initial high tone hint out for you to investigate further. As said though, on the deeper "trash" hits, I always center right over them and see just what kind of signal I can dirt fish out of it.

As a side note that pertains to this topic, just changing the angle at which you grid a site can make all the difference. Often masked coins or ones on edge might only produce a good enough signal to dig from one particular angle of sweep. It's human nature to parallel or (though less common) to hunt at a 90 degree angle to some landmark, such as a sidewalk, a wood line, a street, or a building. Human nature dictates most people will hunt in one of those two directions to those landmarks. So, instead of working it parallel, or even instead of working the spot the less frequent (but still common) 90 degree relation to that object, why not grid the area at a diagonal direction to it? That alone can make the difference and reveal badly masked coins or ones badly on edge that simply will only null or give a real junky signal from any other direction. Many of the coins we've found this year have been so badly masked that they were a complete null for two different machines from any direction but one tiny tight spot and angle. Had we not hit those coins from that rarity of an odd hunting angle many of them we would not have even heard, or at least only got a "trash" signal from.
 
Very well written and thought out post Critter. You hit the nail right on the head. I would swear you were following me at the fairgrounds. The fairgrounds is big and flat just like you said with no trees or anything to go around or use as markers. I find myself wandering off my straight line all the time, leaving those missed spots all over the place. Some of my recent good finds were indeed very small target responses. One in particular was less than half the width of the spoke on the 10" Tornado. Maybe only a half inch or less, I literally shook the coil on the spot to get the high tone and get the numbers to climb. I couldn't make short enough sweeps to make a good enough wiggle. It turned out to be a 1901-O Barber dime standing almost vertical about 7 inches deep. I had to be exactly right on top of the coin in order to get a high tone. I learned a while back to double check every signal and especially one that changes tone even a little bit. I've been pleasently surprised too many times to not do this. An initial iffy tone can quickly change into a nice dig me tone. My advancement is in inches like maybe 4 or5 inches and it has really been paying off and going very slow is a must.
Good luck Gary
 
Well said critter. I like hearing about "hunted out sites" because I go there and work real slow and low and pull the deep old silvers others have missed!




HH
 
One of the reasons why I always hunt in all metal when beach hunting with the Excalibur. You get a halo from the more powerfull setting. I say more powerful but mean less processing of the unit. In Discriminate the machines is slower to process what it sees and decide to act. It all metal this lag time is minimal. I find that the coil doesn't not have to be nearly as close to a target to make some type of indication. Many times its a chirp just out of the coils range that alludes one to a target. Yes It will do the same when in Discriminate but the distances from the coil that it sees is greater in AM.Its comes down to the extra inche if it can see halo 2 inches around the coil in Discriminate and see a halo 3 inches in AM then there's another extra inch We have spent time doing these types of test on the beach with both the GT and Excalibur. If you should get the chance, I reccoment that all of you get with a hunting partner and trade targets to just see if what your doing is working. I have showed many hunter that more sesistivity isn't better that less. Many times targets that I heard with a setting of 5 could not be heard at 8 because of the bouncing of signal.It has opened many of eyes around my parts. IMHO BCNJ
 
Great information for a newbie such as myself. Once again I'm learning some really great technique. Thanks. HH. Matt
 
Glad a few people enjoyed it.

Buried Crap, interesting point about too high of sensitivity getting less depth. The 15x12 showed me that on a regular basis. I *think* it even might be true with smaller coins at some of my sites but need more in field testing on deep found targets. I've even read where some guys say the target will null out if you ride sensitivity high. I know with the 15x12 I found too high of sensitivity (even though it was still stable) would badly degrade target ID. I remember Gunnar saying the same thing about his WOT coil. I suspect that at least coils this big are prone to washing out target signals in some forms of mineralized ground, even not super bad minerals. That's why a lower setting than what is stable makes for better ID at least if not better depth per say. Just taking in too much ground and washing out the target signal. Now, with the 10" Tornado or 12x10 I'm leaning towards max stable sensitivity (or even just a bit unstable) being best for max depth, but I'm not convinced of that one way or the other yet. Just leaning that way but need more in field testing. I can say that I've read of some 8" coil Sovereign users getting 12 to 14" on a coin. In some soils at least I think an 8" coil might actually get more depth than a 10" coil. I found that to be true at some of my sites with my Whites models. Still, the 12x10 rides on and sees less ground than the 10" Tornado IMHO (less fuzzy field, tighter DD line), so I think that's why this coil does get deeper in my soil than the stock 10" coil. I suspect a round 12 or 13" coil might be beyond the size of showing increased depth in my soil, like I found the 15x12 to be.

Anyway, some good points you made. Gets people thinking.

Mathias, just remember that 99.9% of us don't hunt this way like we should. Heck, I rarely have the mindset to take that kind of effort, but more and more I'm trying to be strict with myself and do this crawling hunting style. In particular at hunted out "dead" sites that everybody has given up on for years. That's where these tips can make a site come back to life again. A good aftermarket coil can make a site come back to life too, but so can forcing yourself to hunt as I just described.

I remember reading a thread a month or two back where a guy had a back and leg injury. He owned a Sovereign I believe (this was on another site) but he decided to use his cheap $90 Bounty Hunter to hunt while he healed because it was such a light machine. He didn't even want to walk across the park because of his condition, so he hunted right next to the parking lot in the grass. Anyway, he just worked that small area with a very slow "inches at a time" type of advancement and slow hunting. He posted a PILE of silver that he found in that one little area over the weeks while his body healed by doing that. And he even mentioned he had worked this same spot countless times before but had missed all that silver. And I'm talking silver barber quarters and a whole slew of other silver coins laying in a nice big pile in the picture. Like maybe 30 to 50 coins it looked like!
 
Critter - Thanks for the great info. Well written and thought out. Hunting an area from different angles definitely gives you an advantage when trying to pull out those iffy/mixed signals. I always start out with my 12" x 10" SEF coil running on Auto + 3 which gives me the best depth for my soil. I keep my 6" EQ2 pro close by just in case I need get a "better" look at the multi/mixed signals that have a hint of hi tones. Quick mask with the 6" coil from different angles usually tells you everything you need to know. Great post. Keep it coming.
 
Thanks to everybody for the kind words. I know I get a little tiresome with some of my repeated or somewhat "controversial" views or opinions some times, but it's good to know that I can still post a thread here or there that at least some find useful, if not for anything other than to get people thinking.
 
[size=large]First, if you don't want to read these two posts from others, do yourself a favor and look at the picture of a PILE of silver at the bottom of this message. That should give you incentive to read what they have to say![/size]

I ran across a couple messages I was talking about above that fit this topic nicely, but I had a bit of the details mixed up. That's no matter, because the message is still the same. Not only about the importance of how cleanly you swing the coil, but also that slow and simple inches at a time in coil advancement at the most can make an old even tiny spot seem new again. These two messages from elsewhere were not related to this thread in terms of a response in any way, but rather were just from some other thread unconnected to mine, but were so good and to the point that I was trying to make above, that I thought they were worth posting under this thread to see the actual merits of such techniques. They had stuck in my mind for months, so when I happened upon them again I just knew I had to re-post them under this thread because they really get the point across...

(QUOTED MESSAGE #1)

"...One winter about 10 years ago I had a nasty fall on some ice and messed up my back and leg. The following spring I wanted to hunt but knew that in my condition I couldn't go too far. So, I opted to hunt a very limited area in a section of a local park that I could get to easily from the car but just confine myself to about 50 sq. feet. of space. I had hunted the area previously with good luck so I wasn't expecting much.

Since I knew I didn't want to cover more than this limited area I swept the Sov in the same slow way I always do but instead of walking I just inched my way forward and overlapped every level swing. It wasn't long before I started getting signals so I limited myself to only high tone targets that sounded soft. My knee and back hurt as I uncovered a few dimes and quarter but it wasn't long before I uncovered a nice Barber dime, then a Mercury. It's amazing how much better I started to feel. But equally amazing was how many good targets I took home that day from such a limited spot I had hunted numerous times previously with a slow, level swing. What I realized is that I often found myself thinking ahead to where I'd search next and lose focus on the place I was currently at. When that happens the steps got further apart and the coil didn't overlap on each swing. When you combine this with the fact that I was using a small coil, it's easy to see that coin sized targets can be missed very easily.

Good technique is something most newbies never learn and oldsters like me sometimes forget. That day I realized that I'd rather hunt a 50' area well than a 300' area poorly. I'm no longer racing to get to the next spot."

(QUOTED MESSAGE #2 About Where The Silver Is?)

"That's a question I've been asked by local guys who detect, and have seen more than one ask the same question on some forum or other. No question there are fewer lost silver coins still to be found, but they can still be found and it doesn't take the latest expensive detectors to find them. Location is a big factor, but technique is just as big. In the last five years the number of detectors users in this area has pretty much exploded. Seven or eight years ago there probably wasn't a dozen people in the county I live in who detected, now there's probably over 25 just in the small town I live in and the one thing almost all of them have in common is poor technique. They swing way too fast, leave huge gaps between swings and don't keep their coils level through the arc of their swings. Almost of the silver coins I and the guys I've hunted with have found has been in the four to six inch range with only a few deeper or not that deep, but the way they use their detectors, regardless of brand and model, is the main reason most of them seldom find silver coins, or any coin much over two to three inches deep. In the last couple of months I've been detecting with one or the other of them and got coin signals right behind them, called them back and had them swing over where I got the signal using a slow, level swing and they got it easily. A few of the signals were silver coins no more than four to five inches deep, and even though I constantly remind them to slow down and keep the coil level it doesn't sink in and they take off wide open again. An example. Recently I was detecting with a guy who was using a new detector that has excellent depth and found a silver dime that was less than four inches deep. The guy said he had swung right over that spot, and asked me to put the dime back and put the plug back in the hole to see if he could get a signal on it. I put it back and he whipped his coil over it several times and never heard it. I told him to slow down and when he did he got it with no problem, but went back to his normal too fast sweep speed when he started detecting again.

Some of them buy large expensive coils thinking they're the answer, only to find they don't find any more, if as much, as they did with the standard coils. Another example. I took the old 100 khz Compass Coinhustler that has a 6.5 inch coil to a grassy area near the school down the street where the kids play. The Coinhustler has a 6.5 inch coil and about four inches is as deep as it will get even a large coin, and then it's just a slight increase in the threshold. Just as I got there a guy stopped and asked could he hunt with me. I said yes and he got a new Fisher out that had an 11 inch oval coil, started swinging at breakneck speed, leaving large gaps between swings and lifting the coil at least a foot off the ground at both ends of his swing. In the maybe 30 minutes he was there I found 18 coins, from surface to one that was maybe two inches deep, with the Coinhustler and he found one zinc penny. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, I'm not. I know for a fact that I miss a lot of coins because I'm hunting the same places here in town I've hunted with dozens of different detectors since March of 1970 and still finding silver coins and wheaties, but almost all of the guys around here who started detecting in the last few years swing their coils as fast as they can, leave huge gaps between swings and if they find a silver coin, or any coin much over three inches deep, it's by accident. Where's the silver? Here's some that was found recently with a $70 Bounty Hunter Gold Digger at places that had been hunted by others."
 
Sorry, forgot to add this link to a related thread but ran out of time to edit my message. This other one is on the topic of digging all the junk signals at pounded out sites, as I feel both these threads compliment each other on these topics to bring an old site back to life...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?18,1743731
 
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