Is the update really better?

[Hotrod65]

I have only had the opportunity for one beach hunt since updating my 600 but after reading some posts I was expecting some improved results. Based on my, albeit limited, experience I have to say I am on the fence as to whether there is any improvement for the kind of hunting I do. 90% of my use is saltwater beaches so I usually am in Beach 1 or 2 program with all metal on. Although I only spent an hour using the machine which happened to be in damp or dry sand no water, it quickly became apparent to me that I was getting different tones and ID's for bottle caps (which is the majority of crap targets at the beach). I used to get a choppy signal from around 13-16 and sometimes the ID's would bounce around even more when I changed the angle of the sweep. I learned after digging hundreds of these signals that these were bottle caps. However what I experience now is the bottle caps are ringing up a solid unbroken tone in the 14 or 15 ID. Every signal I thought was good turned out to be a bottle cap. This has me concerned as I must have dug 25 caps in that hour when I would have normally skipped over most of them. I also played with the PP and experienced numerous times where after pressing PP (on a clean spot) I either got a low undetectable tone or no tone at all and no bars on the screen, I never had experienced that before.

Like I said I did not do much testing and only spent an hour hunting but thought I would see if others are experiencing similar results and like me questioning the claimed improvements on the software update? Also does anyone know if you can revert back once you update?

 

[Jason in Enid]

If you're not happy, you have the option to put the old version back on.

 

[dewcon4414]

Yes you can go back...... for some it might be a better choice. Anyone who might not like the program might catch some flack........ but im not sure i do either. Yes it seems they fixed some bugs and the depth meter works pretty good. Im not sure its a better beach program yet. Like you i need more time in the water that the Red Tide isnt allowing me. There seems to be an increase in sensitivity to both beach programs...... especially beach 2. 22 feels like 24 now. There doesnt seem to be a lot of depth difference now between beach 1 and 2. Another indicator of higher sensitivity is swinging over targets seems to be a little more difficult to find the....... normally meaning high sensitivity is being used. The machine transitions near the water better in beach 1...... and is positively quiet in beach 2. Its not quit as affected by EMI or minerals it seems. Im guess they played with the beach modes to make them a little smoother/less chatty that several complained about. Coins are clearer at depth than before in the water. Even bottle caps in the wet sand read different........ i was getting a clean read and tone of 13..... no bounce on the shallow ones. So im guessing a freq shift...... but did it make it a better gold machine than before thats the question. That old statement ......... you dont know what you dont know may apply. Im not a coin hunter..... not sure that the initial program would find small gold.... if they shifted it further cant be good for gold in the water. But all the new guys will like how smooth it runs..... was that the goal?

 

[sgoss66]

In my opinion, for my type of hunting (dirt hunting mainly for coins), my first impressions are -- YES.

I was able to hunt for about 1 1/2 hours last night with the update. WAY to short to give many definite conclusions, but I definitely noticed a slightly different "personality" to the machine -- all in a GOOD way. Here are a few tentative points/first impressions...

1. Definitely quieter/less chatter. You can run sensitivity higher now, with less EMI.

2. Depth meter is improved. Still need more time to say exactly "how much," but I definitely noticed more accuracy.

3. I'm still trying to figure out if I notice more "modulation," on deep targets; I didn't hit the deep targets last night that I need to hit, to figure out if I can discern whether the tones are quieter on the deep ones. But, I DO think I noticed it being louder on large/shallow targets, which is a definite plus. Still need more time to conclude whether I notice any appreciable "louder on large/shallow stuff, and quieter on the smaller/deeper stuff" modulation improvement, that some have noted.

4. ID seems, as a first impression, to be more stable/accurate.

5. The tones seem to be a little more, I don't know, "descriptive," maybe? This is the hardest thing which I noticed last night to describe, in terms of "quantifying." I felt that tones were "tighter" maybe, i.e. allowing a more clear indication as to exactly what was under the coil. In other words, it "spoke" better, to my ears, in terms of allowing me to know what I was hearing. I didn't have to "work as hard," mentally, to decipher what was in the ground. Again, very hard to describe and quantify, but it feels more "refined," tonally.

6. It MAY be a bit deeper, though I need to dig many more targets to know for sure. I didn't dig any particularly deep coins, but I did dig a small- to medium-sized crushed aluminum screw cap RIDICULOUSLY deep (estimated over 10" deep, I didn't measure), that sounded solid. That definitely seemed to be a "deeper than normal" dig, but since it's the only target I dug to base anything off of, I will withhold judgement until I do some more hunting and testing.

OVERALL, BIG-time kudos to Minelab. The update process could not have been any simpler or faster, IMO, and there are definite improvements to be had with the update, to an already super machine (for my style of hunting, in my type of dirt).

THANKS, Minelab! Please continue the great work!

Steve

 

[dbado1]

I would have to agree with most everything Steve said. I didn't get to spend more than a couple of hours with it so the jury is still out. The biggest improvement is that the machine is more stable in regards to EMI interference. The VDI numbers are more stable but have changed. I'm gonna have to learn the numbers over again. I dug a shallow Indian Head (1906) that I thought was gonna be a dime. It IDed in the mid 20s. Wheaties came in lower than the IHP. I found a pocket spill of three Wheaties and the IHP scattered in about a one foot radious. One of the Wheaties was a 1909 S but lacked the VDB :angry:. Still loves deep cans. Anyway, time will tell.

Dean

 

[Jason in Enid]

I would have to agree with most everything Steve said. I didn't get to spend more than a couple of hours with it so the jury is still out. The biggest improvement is that the machine is more stable in regards to EMI interference. The VDI numbers are more stable but have changed. I'm gonna have to learn the numbers over again. I dug a shallow Indian Head (1906) that I thought was gonna be a dime. It IDed in the mid 20s. Wheaties came in lower than the IHP. I found a pocket spill of three Wheaties and the IHP scattered in about a one foot radious. One of the Wheaties was a 1909 S but lacked the VDB :angry:. Still loves deep cans. Anyway, time will tell.

Dean

The VDIs haven't changed. I think you just had some funky ground/setting/emi combos that gave you odd readings. Regardless of the detector, I have always had occasional times where I was left scratching my head about what came out of the ground after expecting something else.
.
Just a couple weeks ago (pre update) I had an IH signal and dug a V-nickel. Nothing else in the hole, no explanation. All the V and buffy nickels since that have read normal. Those things happen

 

[bklein]

I agree about the bottle cap sound but what are 20 bottle caps doing in the surf anyway? I think if they are there it is a sign of a bad day. When I got multiple rings same area there were no bottle caps - occasional aluminum in the edges of the "good" area (was using CTX then - not like I heard bc's but ignored them). Old firmware I couldn't tolerate hunting in beach1. Makes me think there are 3 revs - early (beach1 annoying), middle (those that liked it before and see little change with the new code), and the new code. I'm a lot happier but haven't yet taken it to my park to see if all the "1" targets have vanished in park1 or not.
I think the pinpoint is much more like the CTX now and sometimes is weak, but improved.

 

[Hotrod65]

I agree about the bottle cap sound but what are 20 bottle caps doing in the surf anyway? I think if they are there it is a sign of a bad day. When I got multiple rings same area there were no bottle caps - occasional aluminum in the edges of the "good" area (was using CTX then - not like I heard bc's but ignored them). Old firmware I couldn't tolerate hunting in beach1. Makes me think there are 3 revs - early (beach1 annoying), middle (those that liked it before and see little change with the new code), and the new code. I'm a lot happier but haven't yet taken it to my park to see if all the "1" targets have vanished in park1 or not.
I think the pinpoint is much more like the CTX now and sometimes is weak, but improved.

I was not hunting in the surf, as I noted this was all in the dry sand down to some damp stuff, no water or surf hunting on this trip. There are lots of bonfire rings at this beach which means beer and bottle caps. I do agree the sensitivity numbers are a couple higher, I used to run it at 15/16 on this particular heavy black sand beach and I was around 19 now before it was starting to chatter. But I don't know if that truly translates to more sensitivity or just a number association change. Unfortunately I did not find any deep targets seemed most were near the surface. The volume of the tone seemed much stronger as well.

Like I said I did a short hunt so very minimal testing, but it was long enough to clearly notice the difference with the bottle caps and the PP tone quality. When the caps come in that strong with minimal bouncing around of the VDIs it will be tougher to pick out the caps from the good targets. This is just an early check in to see if anyone else is having similar results in a beach environment.

 

[Always Curious]

The Nox experienced hasn't changed for me. I'm trying to convince myself the machine is more stable, but hard to tell. I wish Minelab would tell us exactly what it did and why.

 

[dbado1]

I would have to agree with most everything Steve said. I didn't get to spend more than a couple of hours with it so the jury is still out. The biggest improvement is that the machine is more stable in regards to EMI interference. The VDI numbers are more stable but have changed. I'm gonna have to learn the numbers over again. I dug a shallow Indian Head (1906) that I thought was gonna be a dime. It IDed in the mid 20s. Wheaties came in lower than the IHP. I found a pocket spill of three Wheaties and the IHP scattered in about a one foot radious. One of the Wheaties was a 1909 S but lacked the VDB :angry:. Still loves deep cans. Anyway, time will tell.

Dean

The VDIs haven't changed. I think you just had some funky ground/setting/emi combos that gave you odd readings. Regardless of the detector, I have always had occasional times where I was left scratching my head about what came out of the ground after expecting something else.
.
Just a couple weeks ago (pre update) I had an IH signal and dug a V-nickel. Nothing else in the hole, no explanation. All the V and buffy nickels since that have read normal. Those things happen

You may be right, Jason. This place has one of those large cell phone towers right across the street. On my first hunt there, pre-update, I couldn't run the sensitivity more than 15 the chatter was so bad. On this hunt I was able to run at 19 ... post update. So, perhaps the EMI was skewing the numbers. Good thought. l need to spend more time with it in other sites. The CTX is unaffected by the cell tower at this site. Didn't run the E-TRAC because it's for sale and all cleaned up. Thanks.

Dean

 

[looknforgold]

I've dug several Silver Dimes before the updates at 22 to 24. I'm out right now, but when I get back into the swing of things soon, I will put that new update to a real good test. Hoping to see a difference at what its hitting at.

 

[sgoss66]

lookn -- I will look forward to your thoughts on it. I hadn't dug a silver dime that low on the scale thus far; I'll be interested to see if the numbers change any for you...

Steve

 

[dbado1]

I was out today with the Nox and hunted a remote mining town in an area where we usually hunt nuggets with GPXs. No EMI. The ground was horrible. Very high mineralization with iron stone hot rocks and tons of nails. I don't think a single freq VLF would stand a chance here. I hit two deep pull tabs that rang in in the high 20s/30. Small copper nails in the mid 20s. I tried various modes and Field 2 seemed to work best but the numbers were meaningless compared to pre update #s. If the target was repeatable from 90* and conductive it got dug. Not much in the way of keepers. The best relic I recovered was a copper thimble at about 2" that rang in at a repeatable 16.

I don't believe that this was a good test of the update (crazy VDIs) due to the bad ground (?). I'm gonna give it a run under some milder conditions before passing final judgement. Thus far, the only real benefit for me is EMI stability. Prior to the update I just ran the sensitivity below 20 to mitigate EMI and all else was good.


Dean

 

[sgoss66]

So, Dean, are you saying that before the update, you hunted this same site and you didn't have a problem with crazy VDIs?

That is strange...VERY strange, if that's the case. Did you do anything different with ground balance, than before?

Steve

 

[hunt2day]

I went out yesterday after downloading the update. I liked the way it operated. Seemed more stable, less chatter and I was finding coins very deep. Not sure what exactly the update changed but I'm going to keep it !

 

[dbado1]

Steve,
I had not hunted this particular spot before. I had hunted other spots like it and near by it and VDI values were the same for known targets pre update.
As I had mentioned in my earlier post, the VDI #s had changed post update. IHP coming in mid 20s. Wheaties reading like zinc. I dug a small, dense, copper knob the size of my little finger nail and it came in consistently high 20s/30... I thought for sure that it was a piece of silver jewelry when I dug it based on my pre update #s.

Jason suggested EMI or funky ground conditions as the reason for the VDI changes. Which is possible. Prior to the update, EMI and bad ground vs. mild EMI/ground didn't cause VDI shift. In other words, if I go to a mild site, and the VDIs are back to "normal" and then go to a tough site and they shift... then that is different then the pre update version. I will test that and see.

Dean

 

[CoinHunter2]

That's what I would say too. I am very please with the firmware update. It ID's halves on edge correctly and depth reading is more accurate.

 

[sgoss66]

Dean --

I'm looking forward to your further reporting.

I have only hunted the update once, and briefly, but I did not notice any skewed VDIs, and it definitely ran more stable. But, I only dug a few coins, so it was FAR from a thorough test...

Steve

 

[dewcon4414]

Good to see some are thinking about the differences. Well i got concerned because the digits on things like bottle caps and pull tabs dropped down a couple of digits in the wet sand..... not in the dry just the wet. Bottle cap was a solid 13 with a single tone just like a nickel. Pull tabs were reading 12 not 14. Same ole bottle caps and pull tabs.

So i did some testing of 100 pieces of various gold i had. It was an air test in beach 2 sensitivity 18. I know the new update seems to have bumped up beach 2 to about what beach 1 is depth wise. But because it was running smoother and seemed better on clad..... i wanted to see how it affected the gold depth. Out of those tested there were very few that didnt test the same depth. But the odd thing was at lets say 12" on a large ring the new program had a better tone....... cleaner crisper. Didnt get me anymore depth.... but did sound good. Thing that changed seemed to be on those open earrings....... old program did a little better on them.

All that said........ everything goes out the window when you add mineral/salt/and water lol.

 

[jas415]

just for me, the update is excellent! I use the 6" coil and depth is excellent, vid is improved, still not 3030 but better, and stability is much improved. 2 hunts with the update and 6 silvers, a war nickle and a buff, along with a silver belt tip. Maybe 35 wheats and another 50-60 clad. To me it's a winner!