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Is metal detecting a legtimate hobby and recreational pursuit?
- Thread starter Grunter
- Start date
I feel Metal Detecting is a legitmate pursuit and hobby. Its just so different in so many ways that not everyone can accept it. I do everything I can to make the hobby look legitimate but some people will never understand. You will always have those people. The most I can do is kill them with kindness and try to educate them about detecting properly. HH. Matt
High,
It sure is a rewarding hobby and a legitimate recreational activity.
BUT - as with most activities, it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil everything for everbody.
By this I mean - the people that leave their dug holes unfilled and a parc looking like a cratered landscape.
Naturally this causes hard feelings in fellow citizens who see their hard earned and paid taxes - that are being used to upkeep parcs - being wasted.
This is why many are beginning to frown upon our hobby.
HH
skookum
It sure is a rewarding hobby and a legitimate recreational activity.
BUT - as with most activities, it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil everything for everbody.
By this I mean - the people that leave their dug holes unfilled and a parc looking like a cratered landscape.
Naturally this causes hard feelings in fellow citizens who see their hard earned and paid taxes - that are being used to upkeep parcs - being wasted.
This is why many are beginning to frown upon our hobby.
HH
skookum
Meaning of legitimate (verb)
forms: legitimated; legitimated; legitimating
to make valid; to make lawful; to justify; to make permissible
Sure it is........ There are just certain areas your not afforded permission for the pursuit of your hobby.
Though it seems like many detect from participation on this forum. We are a relatively small group. Over all.
Good common sense when detecting goes a long way.. There will always be a certain number in any Hobby etc that thinks nothing matters but their pleasure, and have no regards for anyone else, or think the law does not apply to them...
One of my biggest gripes lately is seeing people go on private property without asking.. Just because it is an open field, or empty home site ..DOES NOT GIVE ONE THE RIGHT TO BE THERE. Without permission... Without express permission keep your activities confined to public areas for detecting....
If you want to pursue legal ..join the Federation of Metal Detecting .............. They participate in State, and federal issues with our detecting rights.. Small member fees, with many good results.
forms: legitimated; legitimated; legitimating
to make valid; to make lawful; to justify; to make permissible
Sure it is........ There are just certain areas your not afforded permission for the pursuit of your hobby.
Though it seems like many detect from participation on this forum. We are a relatively small group. Over all.
Good common sense when detecting goes a long way.. There will always be a certain number in any Hobby etc that thinks nothing matters but their pleasure, and have no regards for anyone else, or think the law does not apply to them...
One of my biggest gripes lately is seeing people go on private property without asking.. Just because it is an open field, or empty home site ..DOES NOT GIVE ONE THE RIGHT TO BE THERE. Without permission... Without express permission keep your activities confined to public areas for detecting....
If you want to pursue legal ..join the Federation of Metal Detecting .............. They participate in State, and federal issues with our detecting rights.. Small member fees, with many good results.
How do you figure? The metal detectorist .... are not being denied "equal access" when compared to other state or fed land users. Those other park users are ALSO: forbidden from "digging" (aka "destruction, alterations, vandalism", etc...) And those other park users are ALSO: forbidden from "selling the publically owned past" by pocketing park features for their own fun and profit.
So where's the inequality? each park user is held to the same standard. The md'r is not "denied equal access". He too can go there and use the swing sets, drink from the fountain, etc.... Just don't "destroy" the place, and "steal our past".
Sorry, couldn't help but to be the devils' advocate
I know what you're talking about, but legally, it doesn't fall under "equal access" or "discrimination", for the reasons here.
So where's the inequality? each park user is held to the same standard. The md'r is not "denied equal access". He too can go there and use the swing sets, drink from the fountain, etc.... Just don't "destroy" the place, and "steal our past".
Sorry, couldn't help but to be the devils' advocate
I know what you're talking about, but legally, it doesn't fall under "equal access" or "discrimination", for the reasons here.Well the last fuderal beach that I visited allowed digging on the beach,OSV traffic on the beach,camping on the beach with open firepits but no metal detecting. Please inform me as to how these other activities aren't as destructive to the beach as compared to metal detecting. I saw people digging 4'deep trenches in the sand to build sand castles. Those users are allowed the pursuit of their chosen hobbies,recreation but not detectorists. They use the same facilities,pay the same user fee's as anyone who wants to detect. Although we hold our own to a higher standard, I don't think we should be denied equal access. And as far as finding and removing artifacts,relics or as in the case of most detectorists(lost coins and jewlery) those items will never be found. There aren't enough Archaeologists in the world to find the relics,artifacts from past civilizations
Well in the case of a beach (verses a park/turf), then yes, maybe "holes" aren't the issue. Ie.: those other park users and the md'r aren't held to different standards (no "discrimination") in that case. Then in that case, it's strictly the cultural heritage issue: Whether or not items of historic or cultural interest can just flit away in park-user's hands.
The cultural heritage thing is the answer to your question, in that beach case then. We are held to the same standard as other users (hence no discrimination or equal access issue). In fact, I bet if those park users were to ask high enough up the chain of command, they would probably be told they can't take a pretty sea shell home either! Afterall, you know the old addage that if everyone visiting the park took one pretty stone home, that in 10 or 20 yrs, the park or beach or whatever would no longer look pretty. Or if they let one person pick up and take home a pretty stone, what's to stop the next guy from backing up his truck and harvesting truck loads to use in his own garden back home? Thus if you ask a bureaucrat, they'd be duty-bound to tell you "no taking seashells or pretty stones". But YOU tell me: if your daugher picks up a stone or seashell to use in her grade-school art project, did anyone care? NO, of course not. People pick up seashells all the time and no one cares. But if you ask enough questions, you'll be told "no you can't". Moral of the story?
For example, on this fed. beach issue, we have a fed. beach here in CA where rumor has it that you can't metal detect (no doubt because someone years ago asked a lot of questions). However, a newbie, who simply didn't know any better, went there, un-bothered, for weeks on end! Right in front of life-guard towers, right in front of rangers cruizing by in their trucks, etc.... every day during busy-season. He was shocked at the amount of easy targets (100's of coins per day), wondering why the local md'rs hadn't already worked this place out. Imagine his surprise, when he met up with long-timers later on, who told him "detecting isn't allowed there". At first, he figured it was THEY that had their info. wrong. Because certainly someone there would have said something, if this info were true, he reasoned. Afterall, he had gone in broad-daylight, in front of anyone and everyone, and no one had a problem! But sure: if that person asked enough of those same personell "can I?" they'd be duty-bound to look it up in their books, find something to morph to apply to his "pressing question", and tell him "no".
The cultural heritage thing is the answer to your question, in that beach case then. We are held to the same standard as other users (hence no discrimination or equal access issue). In fact, I bet if those park users were to ask high enough up the chain of command, they would probably be told they can't take a pretty sea shell home either! Afterall, you know the old addage that if everyone visiting the park took one pretty stone home, that in 10 or 20 yrs, the park or beach or whatever would no longer look pretty. Or if they let one person pick up and take home a pretty stone, what's to stop the next guy from backing up his truck and harvesting truck loads to use in his own garden back home? Thus if you ask a bureaucrat, they'd be duty-bound to tell you "no taking seashells or pretty stones". But YOU tell me: if your daugher picks up a stone or seashell to use in her grade-school art project, did anyone care? NO, of course not. People pick up seashells all the time and no one cares. But if you ask enough questions, you'll be told "no you can't". Moral of the story?
For example, on this fed. beach issue, we have a fed. beach here in CA where rumor has it that you can't metal detect (no doubt because someone years ago asked a lot of questions). However, a newbie, who simply didn't know any better, went there, un-bothered, for weeks on end! Right in front of life-guard towers, right in front of rangers cruizing by in their trucks, etc.... every day during busy-season. He was shocked at the amount of easy targets (100's of coins per day), wondering why the local md'rs hadn't already worked this place out. Imagine his surprise, when he met up with long-timers later on, who told him "detecting isn't allowed there". At first, he figured it was THEY that had their info. wrong. Because certainly someone there would have said something, if this info were true, he reasoned. Afterall, he had gone in broad-daylight, in front of anyone and everyone, and no one had a problem! But sure: if that person asked enough of those same personell "can I?" they'd be duty-bound to look it up in their books, find something to morph to apply to his "pressing question", and tell him "no".
Very well put Tom about stirring up the waters or put in another way let still waters lie. One thing Ive always reckoned the way Im not hurting the parks is really in some areas, I think detectorist help in aerating and un-compacting the soil, especially in the heavy trafficked picnic areas, etc Ive been is some parks where the tools they use for aerating literally leave dirt plugs every where the size of small cigars. Just a thought, CO
TerraDigger
New member
"we are being discriminated against by being denied equal access to recreational pursuits at publicly owned state and fuderal lands"
Grunter
Our government prohibits its citizens from practicing discrimination...the exception being, when it is the government that is doing it. Then its called a law/regulation/public policy.
TerraDigger
Grunter
Our government prohibits its citizens from practicing discrimination...the exception being, when it is the government that is doing it. Then its called a law/regulation/public policy.
TerraDigger
fowlercharles
Member
Another Big thing that really complicates the whole matter is that even when a person navigates whatever rules and regs necessary for being legal and up front with their detecting, it is still not safe to assume such. Almost every person in "Authority" will either have no idea of any rules and regs , and if so, will all have a differing opinion as to what any of it really means. Short and sweet, we all know who gets screwed in that situstion.The "system" almost"?" seems geared for confusion. That way those truly in authority have no accountability, and can change and interpret rules and regs however they wish.That is the way we are "governed" now, sadly! Whereever you detect, it is best to do your best to have some sort of permission, keep a low profile, "beautify" your dig site, be friendly,polite, and never "volunteer" any more info than you would like to have repeated.And don't be surprised if sometimes things will still get sticky, because they will. LOL, it's a tuff world out there detecting, and we don't want to screw it up any more than it already is. HH Charlie
Charles, no, it's not un-safe to assume, after having read the laws/regulations. Why would someone be "assuming", if they've looked things up, and found nothing that says "no metal detecting"? You can simply do a key-word search under variants of "metal detecting" or "metal detectors", etc.... If nothing is there, then nothing is there. Presto. How is that "assuming"?
But I know where you're heading with this: the "assuming" part you're referring to, is that someone STILL might not morph something ELSE to apply, right? Ie.: the dreated "alteration" or "defacement" type clauses (digging). If that's what you meant, then give it up now. Find another hobby. You will NEVER get permission to "dig" "deface" and "vandalize" any park. I know some people have gotten permission to "metal detect" in their parks. But notice how they probably used euphamisms (and probably didn't use words like "dig" and "holes" to begin with). And if they DID, it means they didn't ask far enough up the ladder of chain of command. There are ample stories of persons who got a "yes" from city hall, only to be accosted by an angry gardener or cop. The md'r proudly whips out his "permission" to show to the griper. The gardener or cop simply gets on his cell phone, calls down to city hall, and says something like "well I don't like it. He's digging up the park, blah blah ", and your permission is promptly revoked! So you see, either way (whether with permission, or without), you and I STILL have to .... uh .... be a little discreet, no matter what. Eg.: if you see them mowing/tending this park that day, choose another park. Go at low traffic times. If an archie convention is going on there that day, probably not a good day to go. If you see someone studying your every move, don't be in the middle of deep retrievals when that busy-body is watching, and so forth.
Please be aware that: YES, anyone in authority can interpret/morph rules all day long, to apply to things as they see fit. Ie.: you're right, there doesn't NEED to be a "specific prohibition" saying "no metal detecting". Laws in all arenas are purposefully written vaguely, so as to apply to a myriad of circumstances that may arise in the field. And authorities are given a wide degree of latitude to interpet, as they see fit, lest there be constant arguing of semantics. So for example, you have broad clauses like the forbiddance of things that are "annoyances" type clauses. So with something vague like that, a cop can stop you from singing the star spangled banner at the top of your lungs to little kids on the swing set. You can try to say : "but there's no rule forbidding the singing of the star spangled banner", but you know he'll morph something else to apply to you, right? So you're right: they can morph the dreaded digging and alteration type clauses to apply, at any time to us. This STILL doesn't mean that we should therefore all go down to city halls and seek permission though. Because to do so, is ALSO a quick way to get "no's", when ..... a lot of times .... no one would ever have cared less (till you asked). And as I say, even if you DID get a "yes", even that is always subject to over-ride, still subject to bootings, etc....
So in this hobby you simply have to face the fact that if all this bothers you (that you might have someone take issue with you, and you might have to "move on" or "give lip service" now and then), then you might have to stick to private property or sandboxes.
But I know where you're heading with this: the "assuming" part you're referring to, is that someone STILL might not morph something ELSE to apply, right? Ie.: the dreated "alteration" or "defacement" type clauses (digging). If that's what you meant, then give it up now. Find another hobby. You will NEVER get permission to "dig" "deface" and "vandalize" any park. I know some people have gotten permission to "metal detect" in their parks. But notice how they probably used euphamisms (and probably didn't use words like "dig" and "holes" to begin with). And if they DID, it means they didn't ask far enough up the ladder of chain of command. There are ample stories of persons who got a "yes" from city hall, only to be accosted by an angry gardener or cop. The md'r proudly whips out his "permission" to show to the griper. The gardener or cop simply gets on his cell phone, calls down to city hall, and says something like "well I don't like it. He's digging up the park, blah blah ", and your permission is promptly revoked! So you see, either way (whether with permission, or without), you and I STILL have to .... uh .... be a little discreet, no matter what. Eg.: if you see them mowing/tending this park that day, choose another park. Go at low traffic times. If an archie convention is going on there that day, probably not a good day to go. If you see someone studying your every move, don't be in the middle of deep retrievals when that busy-body is watching, and so forth.
Please be aware that: YES, anyone in authority can interpret/morph rules all day long, to apply to things as they see fit. Ie.: you're right, there doesn't NEED to be a "specific prohibition" saying "no metal detecting". Laws in all arenas are purposefully written vaguely, so as to apply to a myriad of circumstances that may arise in the field. And authorities are given a wide degree of latitude to interpet, as they see fit, lest there be constant arguing of semantics. So for example, you have broad clauses like the forbiddance of things that are "annoyances" type clauses. So with something vague like that, a cop can stop you from singing the star spangled banner at the top of your lungs to little kids on the swing set. You can try to say : "but there's no rule forbidding the singing of the star spangled banner", but you know he'll morph something else to apply to you, right? So you're right: they can morph the dreaded digging and alteration type clauses to apply, at any time to us. This STILL doesn't mean that we should therefore all go down to city halls and seek permission though. Because to do so, is ALSO a quick way to get "no's", when ..... a lot of times .... no one would ever have cared less (till you asked). And as I say, even if you DID get a "yes", even that is always subject to over-ride, still subject to bootings, etc....
So in this hobby you simply have to face the fact that if all this bothers you (that you might have someone take issue with you, and you might have to "move on" or "give lip service" now and then), then you might have to stick to private property or sandboxes.
In conclusion after many valid points having been stated I say metal detecting is a valid,hobby,recreational pursuit and good excercise for limbering up older joints. I might suggest that we just do away with metal detecting terminology and call it dirt,sand fishing or detecting for fun and fitness excercises.