Iron Mask- Just Built In Iron Rejection Or Something More

[Critterhunter]

We've had this debate over and over again but I'd like to look at it with a new angle. Ask yourself this...Do you really think Minelab would build a machine with a high level of iron rejection built in and no way to change it...without having a very good reason for doing that? Namely, I believe the whole reason why they would build in a static level of iron rejection with no way to zero it out is because they were able to then provide some very unique signal processing that would allow you to see non-ferrous targets mixed in with that iron. As I've said before, I seem to get more coins in iron with this machine than I have with even fast recovery machines. Not only that, but even when two non-ferrous targets are mixed together such as a coin and a pulltab I seem to still get perfect coin IDs or ones only slightly averaged down by two or three digits most of the time.

Let the debate begin...

 

[w6pea]

Interesting thoughts.

 

[fwcrawford]

Hey Critterhunter,
I don't understand the logic or designing behind it, but like you, I have found alot of coins lying holes with iron since I
started using the Sovereign.
Matter of fact, I figured that the odds of a many coins lying next to iron and being masked by it were low and figured that
what few there were wouldn't be enough to worry about, but after using the Sovereign many times over the last 6 months or so at an old park, I discovered that there could be LOTS of coins that others have missed due to iron masking.
I lost count of how many holes I dug that had iron and coins in the same hole.
Now this park has been hunted in the past, but I was finding old coins that were not very deep that should have been found many years ago. I think the Sovereign with it's iron mask feature is the reason these coins are now in my collection and not someone elses!!
The two coins I found a couple of weeks ago at an old homesite did not give an overwhelming signal, but is was enough to make me think there just may be something good under my coil.
This site has been hunted very heavily by so many different detectors that I couldn't even begin to count them and yet these coins eluded them all except the Sovereign.
I don't care why Minelab did what they did.. my only concern is that it works for me and it does over and over in those hunted out sites.
After my limited experience with my Sovereign, I now understand why so many folks refuse to part with there's.
These detectors can give you alot of information if you only take the time and have the patience learn what it is saying.
Just my thoughts

 

[JimmyCT]

And I have seen it in action. And I feel there is nothing to debate. There is a high level of iron rejection built in BUT there is an "outlet" also incorporated into the mix for the good targets to sound off in our headphones. That is technology. Felix makes a very good point as well, I found 5 old wheat cents (shallow 1-3 inches) in an extremely small area that was littered with pulltabs and bottlecaps. I feel it is the ability of the GT with the iron mask that made it possible for these wheat cents to be found. Same thing on top of the ski hill at the same park. Tons of aluminum, pulltabs, bottlecaps etc. However, I pulled a 1929 Mercury dime out of it. Again, this was with iron mask enabled.

All that I know, is all the sites that I have hit 20 + years ago and have been pounded to death and supposedly "cleaned out" according to some in my area, they are sure giving up the goodies

Happy hunting!





"..provide some very unique signal processing that would allow you to see non-ferrous targets mixed in with that iron"

Now this park has been hunted in the past, but I was finding old coins that were not very deep that should have been found many years ago. I think the Sovereign with it's iron mask feature is the reason these coins are now in my collection and not someone elses!!

 

[Rick(ND)]

As one of my old Electronic instructor would say "It works Very Well"

This is one thing I tell people is the Sovereign is different then any other detector, this detector will give you the info and let you decide to dig or not. Most others the detector will decide what you should dig and what you shouldn't with a beep. With the Sovereigns and the multi tones it has it don't lump a bunch of target to one tone as each target can be different so with going slow and listening you can tell a good coin next to iron better thus letting you know there is something good in with the iron, Most detector will average a good target with iron and give you a trash reading, the Sovereign once you know it from experience you will be able to make a lot of well worked areas come alive with coins other detectors say are trash.

 

[w6pea]

n/t

 

[Neil]

Dont forget to give credit to the coil design, not a whole lot of machines were using widescans but minelab made it the standard on the sov and explorer series and even sunray and coiltek followed suit with the widescans. the coils alone are responsible for alot of the finds in trashy areas.

also if you get a chance watch the video by dankowski, he shows you how just a hair off on a sweep can change a reading/find which really explains why people can go back to sites over and over and find stuff. you might think its the new magical wand in your hand, but its just your coming in at a different angle or speed, different soil conditions, lots of other reasons.

I think that the iron mask is just another disc setting on the sov and not that I dont care for it, I just dont think its anything magical or mysterious, nothing unexplainable in other words.

 

[JimmyCT]

I absolutely agree with you. If the coil wasn't anything special, there would only be one made for each detector. Where can I find this "dankowski" video? Iron mask may be just another disc setting but I feel it is a great feature. I am on my third unmasked coin. Obviously at each coin pulled from the ground, there was always a piece of iron (nails on mine) very close by. I feel it was this special disc feature that made it possible for me to pull a coin so close to an iron object. All that I know is that it works for me and I have seen it work right before my very own eyes. I have owned several other non-minelab detectors. With these past detectors, I have found many nice coins, jewelry and relics. However, in all the years in using them, I have never found a coin or other desirable object next to a piece of iron. So this tells me, my detector has discriminated on the iron next to the valuable object. It told me it was a piece of iron instead of an large cent, silver dime , wheat penny etc etc. could there of been more moisture, sweep speed, angle, better listening skills ( I have hearing loss & tinnintus) one day better than another, Could I have been thinking about a nice vegetable pizza and was so hungry that I wasn't concentrating to hear that slight blip? lol of course. These things certainly plays a factor. For me, I truly believe iron mask does work, it is a valid, working feature and can make a difference if used. For me, I shall continue to use the feature.

Dont forget to give credit to the coil design, not a whole lot of machines were using widescans but minelab made it the standard on the sov and explorer series and even sunray and coiltek followed suit with the widescans. the coils alone are responsible for alot of the finds in trashy areas.

also if you get a chance watch the video by dankowski, he shows you how just a hair off on a sweep can change a reading/find which really explains why people can go back to sites over and over and find stuff. you might think its the new magical wand in your hand, but its just your coming in at a different angle or speed, different soil conditions, lots of other reasons.

I think that the iron mask is just another disc setting on the sov and not that I dont care for it, I just dont think its anything magical or mysterious, nothing unexplainable in other words.

 

[Neil]

try typing tom dankowski in your browser, I dont remember his website but you should be able to find it that way.

on the iron mask being a disc setting, Im just baseing that on how minelab uses it in their explorers and etrac. they actually changed the name of it on the etrac to quickmask. I do believe its the same type system/setting as the explorer series but they never made it adjustable on the Sov like it is on the explorers. Just my guess mind you, theres no one here who knows for sure unless we can get an actual minelab engineer to jump in and tell us.

Did the detectors you used prior to the Sov use widescan coils, did they have a threshold in disc? Did you sweep them as slow as you do your Sov?

Its easy enough to walk right over and miss a target if you have no audible threshold in the mode your hunting in and also by design the widescans will help locate disced out targets next to ones that arent disced out. Widescans have better seperation capability.

think of it, do you really think youve never dug a piece of iron in the same plug as any of your past good targets? we have probably all dug up a good coin and missed the piece of iron or foil in the mound of dirt we have tossed aside, many times over. just my take on it.

 

[JimmyCT]

Hey Neil,

the only video I can get to come up is Tom talking about cutting plugs. He does have videos but he wants people to buy them. I can't give you an answer as to why explorer has an adjustable iron mask and Sovereign doesn't. I am no wheres near technical with knowing electronics of anything including metal detectors lol. I based my purchase of this detector on many positive reviews I have read. Is the GT perfect? of course not. If it was, they would have to stop making detectors and eventually go out of business as I would own their perfect machine. I read many reviews on just about every detector company and their product line of each that I was interested in. (Again -based on reviews) I would love for a minelab engineer to jump in and tell us if this is the same type tech as in the explorer. For some reason, they made it un-adjustable for a reason. A technical reason, I may not understand (if they delve into deep electronics talk lol)

On my previous detectors, they did not have wide scan coils, they both had threshold in disc (which I always kept audible for those slight rises) and most certainly swept them just as slow. Is it possible that I didn't scan tightly enough that I missed some of the area with my previous detectors? Absolutely. Plus all the variables as you point out -diffferent coils, soil mineralization, moisture content, physics of the earth, etc etc
No one area is ever "cleaned out" I even told this to my brother who "wrote off' one area that he didn't want to go back to. I told him several times that there was more than one 1825 penny in the field. He explained to me that he hit this area so hard it "started to bleed" lol I not only laughed at his humor but his narrowism in thinking the area was cleaned out.
Then I brought home my 1908 British penny from the park he thought was cleaned out. He was amazed as he told it to me, "I covered that area" Apparently not good enough. Could you come behind me and swing through the same pass that I make and pick up a coin or relic that I overlooked / overheard. Absolutely. I am not saying iron mask is a magic wand, I am saying that it has "helped" me make finds that I truly believe I would of not dug up with my other detectors. That is why I always go back to my local parks that have been beaten to death for the last 50 + years and pull out wheats, mercury dimes and Indian head pennies. They are few and far between, BUT they are still there.


I feel that this iron mask is opening up the same ground that I have searched before, even though I might not have covered every square inch, but with the combination of 50 years of all the different metal detectors that have graced our local parks, there is a good chance some areas have really been picked pretty clean. The guy that stopped me one day and said something on the order of, " this park has been picked clean"
He was old enough to have used the first BFO detector made lol just because he thinks he and possibly his buddies cherry picked the park, there must be nothing left.



With all the variables in metal detecting, no place will ever be truly "hunted out" As far as the Sovereign GT with its Iron Mask feature ---- I really enjoy it. I feel that it is a superior upgrade to my other detectors. (which shall remain nameless - as I am not here to bash or trash companies) every detector has a purpose. I feel the GT covers my purpose in hunting.... for the time being......unless minelab or another company comes out with a new fantastic feature that I feel I should upgrade to. That is how I feel about iron mask - a fantastic feature.


Thanks for reading and I appreciate your feedback and view.

try typing tom dankowski in your browser, I dont remember his website but you should be able to find it that way.

on the iron mask being a disc setting, Im just baseing that on how minelab uses it in their explorers and etrac. they actually changed the name of it on the etrac to quickmask. I do believe its the same type system/setting as the explorer series but they never made it adjustable on the Sov like it is on the explorers. Just my guess mind you, theres no one here who knows for sure unless we can get an actual minelab engineer to jump in and tell us.

Did the detectors you used prior to the Sov use widescan coils, did they have a threshold in disc? Did you sweep them as slow as you do your Sov?

Its easy enough to walk right over and miss a target if you have no audible threshold in the mode your hunting in and also by design the widescans will help locate disced out targets next to ones that arent disced out. Widescans have better seperation capability.

think of it, do you really think youve never dug a piece of iron in the same plug as any of your past good targets? we have probably all dug up a good coin and missed the piece of iron or foil in the mound of dirt we have tossed aside, many times over. just my take on it.

 

[Neil]

Whats your name if you dont mind?

Ive never used a BFO, I dont go that far back in detecting. I started in either 1985 or 86, with a Whites coin machine, a small black box that hung in front of the handgrip. I forget the name of it but I can still remember my first silver coin find with it and my first gold ring with it also, and of course where there were found.

you can advertise to pick up the dankowski video, the inland real world hunting I think its called, thats the one I saw. Theres a section in it where he points and shows you there is a buried silver dime and what he does is show you there is also some items buried at various levels around it. He stands in one spot, then slowly, really slow, rotates around the coin, and you get to hear the detector(CZ3D) respond to the target from all the different angles. slight changes and the coin disappears and then move a little more and it reappears. he also shows how a super small piece of steel, a steel flake if I remember right, can mask this kind of target and also not even cause a low tone. he termed this silent masking, masking going on all the time that we dont even know about, translated to a sov it would be masking that doesnt trigger a threshold null or tone change. I have never seen anyone to date do as much to further himself in learning a detector unless it would Monte who can be read on the Teknetics forum. Monte is a wealth of knowledge that goes way back.

Great exchanging ideas with you and glad to hear youve found a winner in the Sov for your sites.
If you put up an ad for the dankowski video on the classifieds you can probably pick one up cheap.
Neil

 

[JimmyCT]

neil check your pm

Whats your name if you dont mind?

Ive never used a BFO, I dont go that far back in detecting. I started in either 1985 or 86, with a Whites coin machine, a small black box that hung in front of the handgrip. I forget the name of it but I can still remember my first silver coin find with it and my first gold ring with it also, and of course where there were found.

you can advertise to pick up the dankowski video, the inland real world hunting I think its called, thats the one I saw. Theres a section in it where he points and shows you there is a buried silver dime and what he does is show you there is also some items buried at various levels around it. He stands in one spot, then slowly, really slow, rotates around the coin, and you get to hear the detector(CZ3D) respond to the target from all the different angles. slight changes and the coin disappears and then move a little more and it reappears. he also shows how a super small piece of steel, a steel flake if I remember right, can mask this kind of target and also not even cause a low tone. he termed this silent masking, masking going on all the time that we dont even know about, translated to a sov it would be masking that doesnt trigger a threshold null or tone change. I have never seen anyone to date do as much to further himself in learning a detector unless it would Monte who can be read on the Teknetics forum. Monte is a wealth of knowledge that goes way back.

Great exchanging ideas with you and glad to hear youve found a winner in the Sov for your sites.
If you put up an ad for the dankowski video on the classifieds you can probably pick one up cheap.
Neil