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Iron and the Explorer

A

Anonymous

Guest
Something interesting about the Explorer that has been commented on many times is that it has a unique ability to cut through the iron and find "keepers" or great signals. Typical settings include, Ferrous sounds, sens 20-32, Fast or Deep, Audio Normal or 1. Some have said that conductive sounds better in this site, and others have said ferrous sounds do better, all I know is that I tried an experiment this evening with my machine and it leaves me wondering about our machines. I took a large iron nail and a nickel and waved it in front of the coil of the Explorer. The setting was IM-16. The only tone heard was that of iron being masked. I seperated the nickel by a few inches, again the nickel was masked. I then took the coin and placed it in front of the nail, and waved it across the coil. Again, the target was masked. Being a relic hunter and searching long forgotten Civil War camps...with TONS of iron, broken square nails, etc...I "thought" that the Explorer would be able to go through and produce something that other "top of the line machines" couldn't do. So I did what some of you do, I took another machine, an older model Tesoro "bandido" and conducted the same experiment. In all cases, the bandido was able to hit the nickel with a good sound, with the large iron nail next to it, on top of it, behind it and separated by an inch. First with minimal discrimination, then with the disc set to 5 and the sensitivity set to 8. I don't know how some of you are finding "keepers" in with the deep iron as the explorer actually doen't detect the coin item even seperated by an inch in close proximity. Cody, I know you seem to do very well, and CC, I admire that you run in conductive sounds...but can anyone explain this to me? Try the experiment yourself, get an old square nail, large or small and do an air test and begin to wonder about ALL of those sites you thought you really dug out with this machine. You may want to consider going back to the same areas with other machines to pick up what you might have left behind!!!
 
I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of what Iron Mask is as a function on the Explorer. It does not see through iron in the sense that I can put a coin inside of an iron box and see the coin through the box. The electromagnetic field will be induced into the iron.
Iron Mask is a mode of operation and can be set to detect all metal, ferrous and non-ferrous and alloys of these metals. In the Iron Mask mode of operation co-located targets can be separated and pinpointed. In doing so one can then ID the separated targets.
As with all detectors the coil size and direction of sweep are factors.
The tone of a nail next to a nickel will be heard as a high tone followed by a low tone if the nail is detected first and then the nickel. If the nickel is detected first in the swing direction then the tone will be a low tone then a high tone.
If the nail is on top of the nickel then you hear a high tone for silver. If the nickel is over the nail the tone will be a low tone for a nickel.
A nail and nickel is two complicated targets to begin with as follows:
A nickel is often used to
 
I have an XS and it does great at pulling coins out of iron infested sites, I hunt in advanced smartfind, via the learn mode and set it to reject nails. There have been times that I have dug coins under nails with no problem.
One thing that I have noticed is the Explorer operates different on targets in the air and targets in the ground. After using my XS for awhile, I went back over sites that I had hunted with other brands of detectors and could not believe what I found.
A good iron test to perform with the Explorer.
1. In the advanced mode, using smartfind
2. Go into the select menue, select coins
3. Go to the learn menu
4. Put your nail on top of the ground
5. Reject the nail
6. Go back to the smartfind
You should be able to detect coins beside of, on top of, and under the nail. I load a program where the Explorer accepts only old and new coins and rejects all other targets. It works great at iron and trash sites. TB
 
Cody, Tom, The nail I have is circa 1861 and it is a large square nail. No matter how I seperate the the nickel from the nail, the Explorer ID's it as iron. Again the iron mask function is "on" at -16, smart screen "on", sens "10", response "fast", sounds audio 1/ferrous. I have the sunray 8 inch coil on. If I put the nickel first seperated by about an inch from the nail, there is a minor sound, but none that I would dig as it was too minor. With the Tesoro "bandido" it was able to disc out the nail (square) and produce a respectable signal that one would hear and "dig". Cody, I am sure you have some square nails try one of those and you should be able to replicate the same results without any problem at all. I guess the bottom line is that I am hunting a very heavy mineralized camp with TONS of iron everywhere. The site has been productive through the years and with the amount of iron in the site, there HAS to be some very good relics being masked as well as deep. I have used both the Sunray 5" and 8" coils in this site and recently went with a friend of mine who was using a MXT. Within a few minutes he dug a Mississippi Cuff and a half dime. I have used the explorer as my primary machine for the past 4 years so I am not a newbe, but just a bit frustrated. I am considering shelving the minelab before going into this site and using the bandido as this experiment irked me a bit. If you have any recommendations on how to find those signals next to the iron, without digging everything- then please let me know. In fact if anyone has any ideas or suggestions for this task it would be appreciated greatly. Possibly switch to conductive sounds instead of ferrous and see if there is a drop of tone for the nickel?
 
Christian,
put the nail on the coin and try hitting it from different angles. The only time you will hear the nickel is when the center web of the coil is pointed in the same direction as the nail. If the nail is across the center web it will mask out the nickel. This is why you need to hit sites from many different directions.
I find many coins in heavily nail infested areas, but it is difficult. Basically the Explorers DD coils have a different field than other detectors with concentric coils. Each is able to see some targets that the other can't depending on the orientation of the trash and target.
So you are correct, we are leaving a ton of targets in the ground, but the explorer is still good enough to make many hunted out sites come alive again because of it's ability to wade through iron.
Another thing to try is the WOT or stock. Sometimes the bigger coils seem to be able to get coins under iron better than the small coils
Chris
 
I conducted the test just as you described and always get a high tone or nickel tone. In the field not knowing that one is a nickel and the other a nail I always dig both tones so this combination of co-located targets would not be a problem.
I always use the stock coil by the manufacture, large or small, because ID is often incorrect with after market coils but have no idea if that is the problem. The other area I am not sure of is you use discrimination on one detector and all metal on the other. IM-16 is all metal with Tone ID so I am not sure how to compare that to a detector using discrimination.
Anyhow I have no problems with nails and nickels as you describe at IM-16 which is one reason I prefer all metal with tone id detecting. I checked my DFX using ZDAM, zero discriminate all metal detecting with tones, and had no problem with the nail and nickel.
There is an answer but I don't know what it is other than settings. I don't use the coil you mention so have no idea about that since I cannot test it.
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">When you say it has an ID of iron it would help to know what you actually hear and see that tells you it is iron so you cannot tell you have a good hit.</span> One either digs the nickel tone or does not which is also true of a high tone. I dig both so have no problems with nails and nickels other than I dig some nails thinking they are silver.
HH, Cody
 
I put an x by everything and a check by coins. When I looked at the display the area where quarters and dimes ,id were blacked out. I don't use the display to id, but, I figured, I would be getting a null over quarters and nickels. So I set it backed to factory.
How is yours set up?
 
Hi Roy
You can learn your Explorer to accept or reject targets in the LEARN mode. You turn on the accept function by hitting the tic icon and scanning your coins accross the coil. After you have scanned your coins, you hit the tic icon again to turn the accept function off. Email me Roy and I will walk you through it
 
Christian
Sorry that I am not being much help, but it might be one of those situations where your little Tesoro might be the weapon of choice for that site.
I have a modified IDX Pro that I use as a backup and at some sites its the best choice, it is a coin monster. I know that the Explorer does better on iron than the MXT, because I had an MXT and the reason that I traded it was due to masking. TB
 
Cody, Thanks...the reality of it in this and in other sites is to actually clean the iron out. In other words dig everything. Though it might take quite a long time, the end result would probably be amazing and produce many valuable finds. The use of a small coil in this one site, even though it isn't the stock coil is warrented. There are thirty to forty hut sites where the men camped prior to battles in the Penninsula, Fredricksburg, and other major battles in the east. In this test I shared with you and the rest, it was just an example of how close the iron is at this site to the good finds. I am not knocking the explorer in anyway, shape, or form, but trying to pick yours or others "brains" to come out with some strategy to hit this place in a more strategic way. Better settings? Larger coils? How would you or others attack this site? Again the ground is good old highly "mineralized" Virginia soil, and iron laiden. Any thoughts would be appreciated...thanks!
 
IMHO: In any way Exp will find what Bandido never find and Bandido will find what Exp will never find. BUT most probably Exp will get better score if to try both in different conditions. This is eternal question in comparison of any detectors. Last time I found good Rome coin at 5in with Tesoro Tiger Shark which is dedicated to underwater search just after Fisher 1266 which hit exactly the same place without any responce <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Good Luck!
 
I probably dug several pieces of iron all last year and Explorers just grab the deep silver where others don't. Tesoro is a fast machine and I think it behooves any ardent detectorist to have several units in his stable as one unit can't do it all. Not much into experiments as we are usually dealing with newly planted targets and an Explorer excells at targets buried many years..
 
Maybe thats the problem...I am searching for buttons and if I get into a Civil War hut site, the bottles and other things that the hut mite have. As far as coins go, I am still waiting on that 1861 five dollar gold piece that has alluded me all of these years....but perhaps one day...
 
Cody,
I don't get involved in these discussions very often, but in this case a correction needs to be made for the sake of accuracy. <STRONG>Your statement below </STRONG>is not accurate as the tone ID function of the Explorer has nothing to do with the Iron Mask function and vise versa. Iron mask is simply a descrimination pattern. It can be simulated in the Edit mode and will do exactly the same thing as it does in the Iron Mask mode. You can use Iron mask w/o Tone ID by pushing "Constant" in the "Sounds" portion of the Menu. You can use Tone ID w/o Iron Mask as well. They are two separate functions. They can be used together but are not co-dependent.
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">What Iron Mask does is not "see through iron" but allows co-located targets to be separated into tones that are easy to hear. Co-located targets can give a tones that are hard to seperate and pinpoint. Muddy sounds from numerous co-located targets can be seperated and then a dig or not decision make. </span>
Co-located targets which give more than one tone are separated by the Tone ID function (if turned on) - not the Iron Mask function. If the nail (or other non-ferrous target which is in difficult ground, very corroded condition or heavily masked by iron) falls into the darkened area of Iron mask or the darkened area in the descrimination pattern a null in the threashhold will occur. However, if a <STRONG>nail </STRONG>has oxidized to a point that it overrides the iron mask/disc area and mimics a non-ferrous target, it will give a (usually) higher than quarter sound (if "conductive tone ID is used - low tone if "Ferrous" Tone ID is used). It is at that point that multiple tones aid in the ID of multiple targets. Also, it is at that point that the nail has fooled the disc (or Iron Mask) of the Explorer and is now into the accepted target area. If you check your smart find screen under this condition you will see that the iron target is showing up to the right side of Iron mask or out of the disc (darkened) area in the disc mode.
Also, in a post below you state the following:
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">I always use the stock coil by the manufacture, large or small, because ID is often incorrect with after market coils but have no idea if that is the problem. </span>
What experience do you have with a Sun Ray coil? What experience do you have with an aftermarket coil made for the Explorer series that has been shown to have incorrect ID? If an aftermarket coil has been constructed properly and tuned properly it will have correct ID (tone or visual) the same as the stock coils. You mentioned the above statement in reference to one of my customers's (Christian Davis) statement that he was using Sun Ray coils so that prompted this part of this post. I hope this helps. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Ralph (Sun Ray)
 
I have no expereince with a Sun Ray coils and tried to make it clear that manufactures will often say that after market coils will not id correctly. I have no idea if this is correct and thought I made that clear. I see a lot of praise for Sun Ray equipment so appreciate the product line.
Where Iron Mask and tones are concerend I understand how both modes of operation work. I was tring to think of how to avoid saying that Iron Mask does not function as most PR would have the user believe. It is not a magic technology that enables the user to see through iron but I did not want to say it that way and upset folks. I debated about posting that but went ahead to try and help the user have a reference for what one hears in iron mask at different settings. Anyhow I took liberties with that to try and cut to the chase.
HH, Cody
 
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Thanks a lot, Cody!
This is exactly the area that I am hunting. Crimean War Battle-field 1854-55, covered with Second World war 1941-45, Sevastopol/Ukraine. Heavily iron laden.
I'll put the manual on the wall to read before each hunting <img src="/metal/html/biggrin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":D">
Dood Luck!
 
Hi.
I live in Norway and we have lots of iron everywhere.I also own the first explorer to arrive in Norway and used it several hundred hours.
I agree with You that in an air test it doesnt seem better then any other, maybe worse with iron, but I still find coins with rust on them and found 5 small silver coins the first time out on a heavily detected small field maybe 15 by 60 yards.
I use iron mask -14 and ferrous sound.I have found some coins in iron to ID on the right side near bottlecap, much lower then they should be, but the sound is there in ferrous and You can hear that its not a bottlecap.
I am talking about small iron and square nails but the bigger nails and axe head size iron will still ruin Your signal.I think none should expect to find a dime 1" from a axe head with silver sound.Thats impossible, however You can sense the big iron and dig it out from the treshold nulling.
With the sunray 5" I normally use sens 30 with no problem and it regurarly finds coins in the iron at 8" with no problem, the bigger coils see better from the side of the coin at coins on perfect edge even in the iron so You might say it looks through iron even if it doesnt do that in an air test.
Regards
Bjorn
 
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