International metal detecting

[mwaynebennett]

I live in the Pacific Northwest, an area that wasn't inhabited by metal-using folks until perhaps 150 years ago. That means that there are not as many lost metallic goodies to be found as in areas that have been "settled" longer.
I want to know if there are any lists of countries that permit or prohibit using metal detectors in public parks etc, or is it most likely on a region by region basis? I was studying Ecuador as some of its cities were inhabited by the Spanish in the mid 1500s. It seems like there may be opportunities to go MD there because the locals most likely don't have access to metal detectors.

Mark

 

[Tom_in_CA]

What part of the "pacific northwest"? I'm in central coastal CA, and I "feel your pain". Although there were toe-holds of Spanish influence here by the 1770s, (permanent settlements, verses simply exploration), the entire non-indian population of CA, up to ....... say .... 1800, was numbered in the very low 1000s. And since the indians had no refined metal, there is simply nothing to find before this era. Oregon and Washington had some dabbling and exploration in the late 1700s as well. But realistically, it wasn't till the 1820s or later, that you had any outposts or permanent occupation, by non-indian metal carrying folks. We are/were on the "remotest parts of the earth" at that time. Heck, they still thought CA was an island, on some maps, to as late as 1800 in some maps

As for the rules of other countries, I'm sure you'll get answers, website links, etc.... Just be aware:

Whatever answer you may get from the *technical* angle. It may be couched in terms of national antiquities type stuff, ship-wreck salvor and export type laws, and other such federal level stuff. For example, if you were to ask the same question of some lawyers or bureaucrats in the USA: "Is it legal to detect in the USA?", you may get a "no", because they're answering in terns of ARPA, or Mel Fisher legal hassles, or federal level parks and antiquities type stuff, etc... But the reality is, detecting goes on here with no problems, as long as you're not being some sort of nuisance, raiding pyramaids, sneaking around Shiloh or Bodie, etc....

An example is Mexico: Over the years, people have posed the same question about Mexico. They ask a consulate or whatever, and get a "no", so they leave their detectors at home. Imagine their surprise, when they get to their tourist beaches in Cancun, Cozomel, etc... and see that detectors on the beaches are a common site. Doh! Again: a technical "treasure" and "riches" and "antiquities" answer, verses a casual hobbyist loose-change answer.

You might also check to see if there are dealers for wherever you're going. Like Whites, Garrett, Fisher, etc... They have dealers in most foreign countries. If they list any for your country, then you gotta figure that they can't be illegal, lest who would be buying them?

 

[mwaynebennett]

I live near Tacoma, WA and the oldest white person settlement is Fort Steilacoom which was built in 1849. John Jacob Astor built Fort Astoria in 1810 but that is a five hour drive away. Fort Vancouver was built in 1824 but is is surrounded by the city of Vancouver, WA and the settlement was very limited when it was rustic.

Those cats in states where civil war battles took place have it easy. Out here in Tacoma suburbia all I find are clad coins and pull tabs.:angry:

Mark

 

[reltolbert]

I live in Coeur D' Alene, Idaho and this beautiful City of 45,000 had a Fort Sherman in the 1870's to
protect the white people against the peaceful Indians. Unfortunately, North Idaho Junior College
was built where the Fort used to be, so there is very little trace of antiquities in the ground.

 

[mwaynebennett]

Around here, many spots that had coins dropped upon them are now covered with a layer of concrete or blacktop, both of which make digging laborious.

For example, the Naches Trail (http://www.nachesvalleychamber.com/info/NachesPassHistoricTrail.pdf) goes right through the town where I live, however the modern paved roads follow the same route. I do think that there are places where the modern roads deviate from the original and goes across private farm land. I guess I'll try to find an old accurate map of the trail and then ask land owners about hunting on their land. The problem is finding an accurate map. I found a 1900 USGS quadrangle of where I live and it mis-locates a major lake by about 1/3 of a mile. That map showed an old Indian trail going one block north of the lake of Bonney Lake. When I saw that, I realized that the trail would then go across my property, but upon comparing that old map to modern ones, I determined that the lake and trail were off by 1/3 miles. I went to the actual location of the trail and it is where a Jr. high school is now located, built upon fill dirt.

I located an old USGS map of a national forest about 4 hours drive away. On that 1928 map are shown old miner's and trapper's cabins as well as old ranger stations that no longer exist and the modern maps indicate nothing at those locations. I have driven by several of those spots and saw nothing, but now that I know where they were, I plan on hunting those locations this summer.

Mark

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ok, so 1810s (verses 1820s) for the first toe-holds there. That's still clearly 50 yrs. later than CA (as humble as those "toe-holds" were). You, like us, had some explorer traffic too, in the 100 to 200 yrs. prior to that. Like the Spanish going up and mapping the coast, or the Russians coming down and checking things out. But theoretically, even if they got off their ships (to take on water, plant a flag, or whatever), they supposedly got back on their ships, and made no permanent settlements.

So in the 1810s, your part of the world was amongs the remotest most un-explored parts of the earth, barring the ice-caps or something One of the reasons the Spanish sort of ended their northward trek, even though they'd gotten as far us as Baja CA, is because the ocean currents were contrary to going *up* the coast. Going back down the coast to the mother country of Mexico was easy. But going counter to the currents was difficult.

To find coins lost from those earlier times, is going to be like looking for a needle in a hey-stack. Odds are, anything settlement spots that old, will likely either be under developement, or some sort of protected historic monument, or simply lost-to-time and un-known, etc....

By the 1850s and 60s though, a whole lot of westward immigration ........ coming across the USA in wagons, chose the northern route to get to CA. There were 3 ways across the sierra nevadas: Either straight over, which was the steepest route (various paths of which the donner route was one, for instance). Or they'd have to go the southern route through the desert. That had it's complications. Or a popular route to avoid the sierra nevadas was the northern route, which brough them to Oregon. Although CA might have been their ultimate destination, a lot of settlers ended up staying in the Pac. NW (either in OR, or WA, etc...). Thus you guys have some cities that date to as early as the 1850s/60s, for instance.

 

[mwaynebennett]

Ya, there was an Indian uprising in the late 1850s and a series of block houses were built. One became the first school in Puyallup and I have poked around there but about 100 years ago the Puyallup River was re-routed and that whole area is now comprised of fill. I do want to try to locate the block house by Castle Rock for there was some activity there. The block houses were built near settlements so that the pioneers could flee to the block houses to escape from the Indian attacks. In the early times like the 1850s, the best way to get from Portland to Seattle was via boat down the Columbia, then up the Cowlitz River to a settlement called Cowlitz Landing. From there was an overland hike until several stage coach companies started taking people to Olympia. I know of several of the stage stops and think they might be worth checking. Teams of horses could only be driven about 15 miles before they has to swap teams. That meant there were stage stops about every 15 miles. I stopped at Claquato and found where the old livery stable and blacksmith shop were and they are now someone's front and side yards. I think I'll ask if anyone has searched their yards. Where Cowlitz Landing used to be is where I5 crosses the Cowlitz River. It has flooded many times since there was a real community there so I'm not sure if any artifacts would still be able to be found.

Mark

 

[Davy Jones Locker]

US civil wars state cats as you call us Mwaynebennett , don't have it easy touch a site that is national, state,county,local recognized civil war site or park will get you jailed,fined and you MD taken if caught.And I for one am not that unethical to even try it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Not sure what you're talking about. Barring some sort of obvious protected historical park type sites, other CW sites get detected routinely, and legally, and no one is "arrested", as you say.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mark, sounds like you've done your homework, so you can hone in on the earliest European influence spots Check out a book by a "Paul Fridlund", called: Washington's Story: The conquest

later, Tom

 

[mwaynebennett]

Tom:

I think that I enjoy the research just as much as the swinging/digging. I have learned so much about history by reading and studying old maps etc.
I concur that the civil war battle sites that are off limits are the bigger and more famous ones and that many smaller battles/skirmishes took place on land that is now farm land etc. There are many youtube videos of people swinging and finding miniballs and cannonballs and buttons etc. Those in the mid Atlantic states have the War of 1812 battle sites and the Revolutionary War sites to search too.

Mark

 

[TURNMASTER]

Even without the Cival War sites you guys east of the missippi have still got a much older date of coinage and metal relics. The stuff is here guys, just not in the numbers our friends back east are able able to find.

The oldest coin I have found so far in Spokane is 1895 and a total of 4 pre 1900 coins total. The earliest permanent white settler was a guy named Plante, between 1850 and 1860 There was military trafic all over Washington and Idaho near that time, as well as earlier explorers.

reltolbert,
A friend found a belt buckle near old Fort Sherman. I think it was near the old sawmill and on (under) the beach. Long before I bagan detecting though.

mwaynebennett
You may be at a disadvantage on the west side with the greater population. In the early days the sopkane area was more populated and we have less vegetation growth. They move alot of dirt around here for construction but I think they move more where you are. You should however, have a hand up if you are a jewlery hunter or beack hunter. I have read some interesting finds made on the Sound area beaches. Wish I had made a note of that website, but the guy had been tossing black crusty globs back into the water, only years later to discover in his curiosity that these "globs" were silver coins with a heave encrustation.

Jeff

 

[BARKER]

hi Folks; Yes I can feel your pain to. I live in Boston, MA and yes I find a "lot" of coins and Relics from the 1600,s and 1700,s on up to present BUUUT. If you think detecting here in New England is some type of Nirvana your wrong. It does take a "lot" of research and a lot of luck. Many times I've gone to Colonial arms or other sites to come away with absolutely zero. Yes it is fun to find something 200 - 300 years old but most times the coins we find are copper and are chewed up beyond recognition.Other problems are that everyone here has a detector.!!! Then "THE" site you think is "THE" one has been searched to death. Then "IF" you find a good site you need to get permission to search it. Most folks are friendly but you do meet a lot of jerks to.Yes there are a lot of very old sites we can search and we do. Then there are literally whole towns where if you go searching there YES they will confiscate your detector. Hit you with a Fine of up to $250 and can even arrest you. So you see searching here is not as easy as you think. NOW :
Earlier I Posted to try England. Reason is that the People are very friendly there. I've been there several times. Jimmy Sierra conducts detecting tours there every year.There are numerous Clubs that also sponsor detecting trips to England.if you search on line you can find the 'SEARCHER" Magazine. In it you will see the names and addresses of "detectorists" that you can talk to and even set up your own trip there.September - October is the best time. No crops. Try the Doncaster Metal Detectorists Club in Doncaster, England. Great people there. Lot of fun. On English Treasure Laws. If you have permission you can hunt all you want. Rule of thumb is easy : ASK.!!! 90% of the time they say yes ok. As for old things.England dates back thousands of years literally. As far back as the Celts and even Romans in 50BC. You find Medieval coins and Relics there routinely. If it's not over 250years old they don't even blink.!!!!!!! In England they have what's called the TROVE LAWS. If you find something of "historical" value or interest you are obligated to turn in the find to the local Coroners Office. They will hold a hearing and after that they are obligated by Law to pay you the fair market value of the item. Remember that they pay in Pounds not Dollars. Pounds are worth more ok. I hope this helps. PEACE:RONB

 

[TURNMASTER]

Boy it would suck to get your machine taken away and fined.