Got to hunt saturday with the 50 and had a couple weird things happen. First the area is an old baseball field that had old houses before that. Lots of fill dirt areas i'm told. Brother and i have hunted it with just about every machine imaginable from expl. to cz's , shadows, tejon's and every thing in between. Stock 9 in. coil, gb of 5, sens. 17-18. Hit the usual clad , then i get a four arrow depth 42. High tone consistent. Dug a deep mercury dime, out of the ground numbers drop to 36. Same happened on three deep wheats, Higher than normal numbers in ground ,lower out. Double checked all signals with brothers x50 and the same no's. Then, got a 5 arrow depth and a smooth mid to high tone , bouncing around 30 and higher, dug deep, when i finally got it in the pile it read 9, thinkin nickel was surprised to see a beat up eagle button, the last thing i expected to find there. Just wondering if anyone else is having no's read higher in ground than out. I'm not complaining as most tid's drop in id at deeper items, would it be mineral content? So far, impressed with the xt50 spite of the bad press it gets. Waiting along with the rest of the entire human race for the small coil,,,,,,hh
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Interesting terra 50 observations....
- Thread starter bleeohio
- Start date
Dick from IA
New member
Excellent comments, Bleeohio and Monte
I am guilty of being "meter dependent", and as a result and review of my records, I find I was actually doing better with my first detector a year and a half ago
.
In July I purchased a non-metered detector and loved it, but for some reason I felt insecure and traded it back for the X-70, to have a meter again. I love the X-70 as well but wonder if I'm truly missing out, letting the machine decide what I'm going to dig.
I am guilty of being "meter dependent", and as a result and review of my records, I find I was actually doing better with my first detector a year and a half ago
. In July I purchased a non-metered detector and loved it, but for some reason I felt insecure and traded it back for the X-70, to have a meter again. I love the X-70 as well but wonder if I'm truly missing out, letting the machine decide what I'm going to dig.
BarnacleBill
New member
Last week I had the X70 with the concentric 18.75kHz coil mounted hunting a freshwater beach. I was in search of small gold, chains, lockets etc. so I had the machine cranked up hot, with sensitivity at 28, and using both Coin & Prospecting mode. The Ground GB numbers are around 9 which is where I locked the machine as I didn't want anything tracked out, as I sometimes spend a great deal of time over a target analyzing it.
In Coin mode I began to hit very deep targets showing max arrows and giving very light sporadic audio with ID's ranging from +8 to +48. These targets were so deep that the machine simply could not get a good read audio-wise OR numerically. Switching to Prospecting mode sensitivity at 30 and Iron Mask at 5, the targets could barely be heard, only a slight rise. After the first shovel full of sand was removed the ID dropped in value and finally read correctly after the targets were brought into the sunshine. I ended up with about a half dozen nickels from the early 1960's that were at detection limits. I estimate they were in the 9 to 11 inch deep category.
Conversely a few weeks ago I posted the following:
"Last evening I received a call from a family friend that had lost a 1/4 carat diamond stud earring. The location was a newly completed outdoor athletic facility that was finished this past spring which has several soccer pitches(UK).
I had agreed to meet the lady at noon today and had asked her to bring along the remaining earring so that I could take a reading on it. On board the Barnacle Buggy I had brought an X70 with HF concentric, X50 with HF DD, and a Fisher Edge with 5.75inch coil. The earring turned out to be a yellow gold fairly standard sized stud.
First order of business was to crank up the sensitivity to max on each machine and air test the earring for ID. The X50 showed a "+3", the X70 a "+2", and the Edge a "+12". I noted the disparity in ID on the Fisher.
As this athletic facility is new it consists of sand & gravel with a very thin layer of loam to seed the grass. I then GB'd each machine and placed the earring on the ground with the X70 GB'ing at 12 as a point of reference.
With the Edge GB'd, sensitivity @10 and in All Metal mode the earring on top of the ground ID'd as iron in the -15 to -20 range. Next with the X50 GB'd, sensitivity @20 in All Metal the earring on top of the ground ID'd as iron hitting -6,-9. Lastly I had the X70 in Coins mode All Metal with sensitivity @30 and the earring ID'd once again as iron. I changed locations and re-checked just so I was sure I was not losing my mind.
The upshot is that only with the X70 in prospecting mode and Iron Mask at 5 could this earring be distinguished from iron, and this is laying on top of the ground not below it. I searched for several hours in Prospecting mode but did not find the earring. Unfortunately when the fill had been trucked in, they trucked in trash with it, and it was not the most enjoyable couple hours I've spent with a detector.
It is a sobering thought to know that without using Prospecting mode or digging every target in Coins All Metal mode that I am walking over earring studs that are simply invisible."
So different targets over different ground yielded opposite reaction from a variety of detectors.
HH
BarnacleBill
In Coin mode I began to hit very deep targets showing max arrows and giving very light sporadic audio with ID's ranging from +8 to +48. These targets were so deep that the machine simply could not get a good read audio-wise OR numerically. Switching to Prospecting mode sensitivity at 30 and Iron Mask at 5, the targets could barely be heard, only a slight rise. After the first shovel full of sand was removed the ID dropped in value and finally read correctly after the targets were brought into the sunshine. I ended up with about a half dozen nickels from the early 1960's that were at detection limits. I estimate they were in the 9 to 11 inch deep category.
Conversely a few weeks ago I posted the following:
"Last evening I received a call from a family friend that had lost a 1/4 carat diamond stud earring. The location was a newly completed outdoor athletic facility that was finished this past spring which has several soccer pitches(UK).
I had agreed to meet the lady at noon today and had asked her to bring along the remaining earring so that I could take a reading on it. On board the Barnacle Buggy I had brought an X70 with HF concentric, X50 with HF DD, and a Fisher Edge with 5.75inch coil. The earring turned out to be a yellow gold fairly standard sized stud.
First order of business was to crank up the sensitivity to max on each machine and air test the earring for ID. The X50 showed a "+3", the X70 a "+2", and the Edge a "+12". I noted the disparity in ID on the Fisher.
As this athletic facility is new it consists of sand & gravel with a very thin layer of loam to seed the grass. I then GB'd each machine and placed the earring on the ground with the X70 GB'ing at 12 as a point of reference.
With the Edge GB'd, sensitivity @10 and in All Metal mode the earring on top of the ground ID'd as iron in the -15 to -20 range. Next with the X50 GB'd, sensitivity @20 in All Metal the earring on top of the ground ID'd as iron hitting -6,-9. Lastly I had the X70 in Coins mode All Metal with sensitivity @30 and the earring ID'd once again as iron. I changed locations and re-checked just so I was sure I was not losing my mind.
The upshot is that only with the X70 in prospecting mode and Iron Mask at 5 could this earring be distinguished from iron, and this is laying on top of the ground not below it. I searched for several hours in Prospecting mode but did not find the earring. Unfortunately when the fill had been trucked in, they trucked in trash with it, and it was not the most enjoyable couple hours I've spent with a detector.
It is a sobering thought to know that without using Prospecting mode or digging every target in Coins All Metal mode that I am walking over earring studs that are simply invisible."
So different targets over different ground yielded opposite reaction from a variety of detectors.
HH
BarnacleBill
the chip in the coil might be more suseptible to outside interference? With the chip relaying back to the board, would the cable act as an antenna or does it not work that way. There are a lot of powerlines close to the area we hunted. Heck, maybe it was my lucky skivies that i had on, bout the only thing they haven't done for me is hit the lottery, well , that and set me up with the overstock.com lady.......thanks for the info...
jackintexas
New member
Depending on where I am hunting and what for. A metered detector is fine if you realize the limits of the metered detector. Some sites I use the meter if real trashy and some sites I do not pay any attention to the meter, digging what sounds good.
Small gold is often not detectable at all, especially with machine that has any built in iron mask feature. That the id numerically was iron does not surprise me, but how did your EAR react to the target?? Sometimes Ears and Brains can be a better indicator of dig/ not dig than meters and numbers! To go off subject a bit, I just bought a terra 70 and am still learning the machine. I took it into my magic garden in which I have some coins buried , and at full sens and ground balanced properly it was not able to even peep on a 25 cent coin at 12 inches and a dime at 8 inches. Now before you attack me, in my soil my Excaliber will not find those coins and my Cz-20 won't either. My Fisher 1280-x will just barely squeek intermittently on the dime and fails to register the Quarter at all. Now I don't know about the new X-70 yet, but I know all my other machines are capable of finding these targets at greater depths than those in other soil conditions. Some times the soil can play a major role in how your meter and audio reacts to a target, even if you properly ground balance. Just the way it is! A trained ear is better than any meter!
BarnacleBill
New member
The EAR heard the short low tone which sounded like many other bits of small foil which littered the area. I ended up digging a lot of small foil trying to find the target to no avail. Prong mount 18K gold earrings are in my estimation one of the more difficult targets, even for a prospecting detectorist with dedicated gold machines. You very rarely see gold earring finds posted. If anyone has the magic machine/coil combination I'd sure like to hear about it.
Using the X70 with high frequency coils I can go out and find earring backs, microscopic lead shot, and sinkers that my vibraprobe will not even sound off on when pressed against the tip.
I have no reason to attack you over a coin garden depth test. The X70 is a mid-priced detector akin to a chameleon. It can change roles as quickly as you can change coils, which in this price range is un-matched. The 1280 is a 2.4kHz detector, and I think it would be interesting for you to get a 3kHz coil for the X70 and go back to perform the same comparison. It may be the lower frequencies are getting deeper because of your ground conditions. I would perform a noise cancel just before the test even if you aren't hearing any interference.
HH
BarnacleBill
Using the X70 with high frequency coils I can go out and find earring backs, microscopic lead shot, and sinkers that my vibraprobe will not even sound off on when pressed against the tip.
I have no reason to attack you over a coin garden depth test. The X70 is a mid-priced detector akin to a chameleon. It can change roles as quickly as you can change coils, which in this price range is un-matched. The 1280 is a 2.4kHz detector, and I think it would be interesting for you to get a 3kHz coil for the X70 and go back to perform the same comparison. It may be the lower frequencies are getting deeper because of your ground conditions. I would perform a noise cancel just before the test even if you aren't hearing any interference.
HH
BarnacleBill
Would you put up with yet another rookie observation, question. First of all, thank your for the many many very very helpful informational answers you have provided for us, and also the humble kind way you have accomplished this. As I said, I am a rookie, I haven't even learned enough to realize how much I don't know. In your reply concerning all the variables, every make and model has to deal with, wouldn't a pi machine eliminiate all the; situations you have outlined in part of the mix? Also the points # 1-5 should be also eliminated by a pi machine. As you have pointed out there are so many variables, the machine, the machine adjustment, the ground, the operator. wouldn't a pi machine provide the user with a response to 1oo% of tagets, good or bad, at least the operator could hear all the targets the coil passed over. The rule...beep..dig! Please this last observation is not is not in any way ment to be maliciuos in any way, shape or form, but if that is the optimum or most effective method to locating targets, and recovery, either good or bad, wouldn't again the pi unit provide an alert to 100% of all targets, and not be subject to all the variables or hinderences we encounter. I am suspecious the that we all would like to ..dig every target.. and, the pi machine presents no alternative but.. to dig. Thougts of a rookie. I want to wish you the merriest christmas and also to you all.
#1.. None of us really know just how much we really don't know. That's why all foo us should constantly be trying to learn.
2.. No, a PI unit wouldn't take care of all the issues, and it brings some of it's one, such as a required sweep speed, etc. Yes, it could do some things well, but just the nature of the beast would scare away the majority of hobbyists.
3.. You have to keep in mind that my response was simply to point out the fact that there are way too many variables involved for TID models to be accurate, so it's not really aimed at the pulse detectors.
4.. While a PI unit can be fairly responsive to most targets, it isn't necessarily as recognizable of a response to untrained, 'average' ears.
5.. "Beep-DIG!"[/i] is more of a philosophy than a description of detector performance type. Any variance from this philosophy will bring about a reliance on the use of discrimination or features such as audio or visual target identification.
My comment is simply a reminder or suggestion that to do anything other than recover ALL target responses means that you are relying on the ability of an engineer to produce a very efficient circuitry, your decision to select a proper search coil for the task and to present it in an efficient manner. If the operator gets too carried away with adjustments or reliance on 'fluff' such as Target ID or Tone ID, they need to keep in mind that they will reducing their opportunities for success. Oh, they might well recover a lot less trash, but they will also miss a fair share of good stuff.
Merry Christmas to you and others as well!
Monte
2.. No, a PI unit wouldn't take care of all the issues, and it brings some of it's one, such as a required sweep speed, etc. Yes, it could do some things well, but just the nature of the beast would scare away the majority of hobbyists.
3.. You have to keep in mind that my response was simply to point out the fact that there are way too many variables involved for TID models to be accurate, so it's not really aimed at the pulse detectors.
4.. While a PI unit can be fairly responsive to most targets, it isn't necessarily as recognizable of a response to untrained, 'average' ears.
5.. "Beep-DIG!"[/i] is more of a philosophy than a description of detector performance type. Any variance from this philosophy will bring about a reliance on the use of discrimination or features such as audio or visual target identification.
My comment is simply a reminder or suggestion that to do anything other than recover ALL target responses means that you are relying on the ability of an engineer to produce a very efficient circuitry, your decision to select a proper search coil for the task and to present it in an efficient manner. If the operator gets too carried away with adjustments or reliance on 'fluff' such as Target ID or Tone ID, they need to keep in mind that they will reducing their opportunities for success. Oh, they might well recover a lot less trash, but they will also miss a fair share of good stuff.
Merry Christmas to you and others as well!
Monte
Bavaria Mike
New member
I think that is normal with most machines, I believe in the halo effect coins and relics get in the ground that make them sound better especially in moist conditions. HH, Mike
Bavaria Mike
New member
thanks for all that info, it's all good, tried and true facts! Some of my best finds were my worst signals, LOL! HH, Mike
Actually for me, it's been the opposite, the cz's, in my ground have given up many deep wheats and indians in the iron range with coin bounce, also the excel on deep coins would drop in numbers and tones but still be solid, i just went by the depth as to dig. Explorer was the same, sometimes they would read a little lower on the deeper coins. but that's in my soil, which isn't to bad for mineralization. I know tids aren't always accurate, but the xterra is the first one i've had that consistently reads higher on deeper coins. As i said before, not complaining at all, but if you don't dig some of the bouncy numbers at depths, how do you know your not missing goodies? Most of the deep ones i've dug have bounced more than a few numbers , but they are consistently high with good tones so i can pretty well tell if it's a coin or not, anyways, i'm likin the xterra, learned a couple tricks with it and i just keep finding things, so i won't fix it if it ain't broke, hh..
Bavaria Mike
New member
I think the Fisher CZs are a different animal, they are deep seekers, great relic hunters and like iron, awesome on a battle field. I have a CZ7A, heavy but a great machine! Found my only cannon ball from 1704 with the CZ at 15-18" using the 10" coil. Here in Germany, the VIDs do not mean much as it could be anything under the dirt, I try to dig it all. HH, Mike
You are right in that any gold that small will sound like foil, or even iron.I bet there was some slight difference in the audio for the target you were looking and the bulk of the foil targets, enough to knock out some foil by ear( too loud, too soft, too scratchy, not scratchy enough, etc. ) I think too many folks are hooked at the hip to their I.D. meters, and having been a no meter beach/water hunter for so many years I don't see the point of being so stuck on meters. You are right about the soil in my area, they used to make bricks out in the woods behind my house in the colonial days and low K detecters work the best as well as BBS systems as a second choice. The deepest COIN machine I ever used on my "witches garden" was an old Fisher Gold Bug which I still have. (I have too many metal detectors!) I just posted a question regarding meters and mistaken targets on the X-Terra forum, you might look,and give me your thoughts. I am getting the other coils for the X-terra and I have the stock coil and the DD 18.75 already. I am going to try some "chain hunting" (and aluminum foil hunting!) in the lakes after I finish up with my regular underwater machines, none of which like chains at all!
Hard 2 Find
Member
Monte: In other words if I'm getting some targets but also a lot of trash. Should I go back over the same area, but use more discrimination?