Information regarding aptX-LL headphones, the Equinox, and pairing issues cropping up recently...

[sgoss66]

Hello all!

There has been quite a bit of chatter lately, regarding Miccus/Trond BT-80 headphones -- which have ALWAYS worked well with the Equinox -- but have recently been giving Equinox users problems, specifically with pairing. There has been some confusion as to whether or not the issue is the headphones, or the new version 2.0 firmware update with the Equinox, or some combination, and so I've been doing quite a bit of research into this -- including speaking with the specific factories that actually produce the BT-80 headphones (but which are then re-labelled by Trond/Miccus/Minelab).

Here is what I am fairly certain of, at this point...

1. The Equinox is not compatible with Bluetooth 5.0 .

2. Equinox ML-80 headphones (which are actually a re-labelled BT-80 headphone), utilize Bluetooth version 4.1.

3. The Miccus XR-71 Stealth headphones (which are actually a re-labelled BT-80 headphone) USED to be Bluetooth 4.1 (and worked very well with the Equinox), but have been upgraded to Bluetooth 5.0, and so the newer sets of these headphones are NO LONGER COMPATIBLE with the Equinox (I will verify this in the next few days, as I have a new set of 5.0 Miccus SR-71 headphones that I will be testing). This set I am testing has already been tested on another Equinox, and would not pair (I am testing, to verify that it is indeed the headphones that are the issue).

4. The Trond TD-BH01 headphones (which are actually a re-labelled BT-80 headphone) USED to be Bluetooth 4.2 (and worked very well with the Equinox). However, I have a set in hand, that were purchased recently, and would NOT pair with an Equinox (I will verify this in the next few days, as I have this very set of Trond headphones that are SUPPOSED to be 4.2, but would not pair with that another Equinox, in hand; I will test to verify that it is indeed the headphones that are the issue).

5. The person who tested this brand-new pair of Trond TD-BH01 headphones which would not pair, ALSO spoke with Trond, and was told by Trond that the new Trond TD-BH01 phones HAVE upgraded to 5.0, but they haven't upgraded the enclosed spec sheet yet (which still shows 4.2 Bluetooth). SO, this is obviously the opposite of what 5900_XL-1 was told. It seems more likely at this point that the Trond phones HAVE INDEED been upgraded to 5.0, since this brand-new pair in question would NOT pair with an Equinox (again, I will test on my Equinox, to be doubly sure that they indeed will not pair), which seems to verify what the OTHER representative from Trond confirmed -- i.e. that the newest pairs are Bluetooth 5.0.


With all of this said, I am looking into the possibility of placing an order for a large number of BT-80 headphones, built to the same spec as Minelab's BT-80/ML-80 headphones, including the aptX low-latency codec, and Bluetooth version 4.1. As Miccus and Trond move to the Bluetooth 5.0 standard, thus making newer sets of the headphones incompatible with the Equinox, this would allow me to have a large stockpile of BT-80 aptX low-latency headphones, identical to the ML-80, which I could therefore make available for Equinox users indefinitely. This would assure that with these headphones, there would be no more "uncertainty" as to how to get an aftermarket BT-80 that is aptX low-latency, and that will ABSOLUTELY pair/function correctly with the Equinox.

I will make more information available as I work through this process; I have purchased a sample set to verify the specs, prior to placing a larger order for these headphones (the sample set will be en route to me next week). If you would possibly be interested in this "project" I am working on, please send me a message and let me know, and I'll then keep you posted as to whether or not I will begin supplying these headphones as an option for EQX users.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[Florida Son]

Thank you Steve,

One question on your plan on buying a large number of BT-80 headphones:

Are you certain Minelab will not upgrade equinox and make your purchase of this BT version obsolete?

hate to see you waste $$ on an end of life version.

I certainly appreciate all the research and builds you do!!

best regards,

FS

 

[sgoss66]

Florida Son --

Thank you for the thought -- it's well taken.

I have pondered this same thing; here's what I have arrived at. I don't think (but could be wrong) that it is likely that Minelab would upgrade the Equinox in such a way that would make a 4.1 headphone NOT work; after all, there are too many sets of 4.1 ML80 headphones in existence, that would suddenly be made obsolete on an new Equinox, should they do that. However, I DO think it is possible that they COULD upgrade the Equinox so that a 5.0 Bluetooth headphone WOULD work (but while maintaining "backwards compatibility" such that 4.1 and 4.2 headphones would ALSO still work). In this case, I would then have a stockpile of 4.1 headphones, that would work properly with the Equinox, BUT, the Miccus 5.0 and a Trond 5.0 version would ALSO work at that point -- and so I'd likely sell far fewer of the 4.1 phones in that case, than I otherwise would have.

SO, as you noted, the question is, WILL Minelab upgrade the Equinox to be 5.0 Bluetooth compatible? I'm not sure. Since the ML80 is version 4.1, I can't see them keeping the ML80 at 4.1, but upgrading the machine to 5.0. After all, I don't think Minelab cares if the Equinox is compatible with aftermarket 5.0 headphones, or not. All they would care about, is that the Equinox is compatible with their OWN headphones. As such, I think the only reason they would upgrade the Equinox itself to work with 5.0, is if they felt that it was important for the ML80 headphones themselves to upgraded to 5.0. And I'm not sure why they would; based on what I know about 5.0, the upgrades are not so important for things like headphones. Instead, it seems to me that the 5.0 upgrades are more applicable with respect to computers/phones/the internet (i.e. security improvements, bandwidth improvements, etc., are a part of the improvement offered by 5.0, and these improvements seem to me to be of little importance in the case of a detector and headphones; range is also greater in 5.0, but long-range transmission is also not important for metal detecting applications). As such, I'm not sure there's a lot of benefit or urgency for Minelab to change the specs on the ML80, and have them produced with version 5.0 Bluetooth. So, I think it's probably unlikely that the Equinox becomes Bluetooth 5.0 compatible.

But yes, this is one of the things I'm pondering right now; at this point, though, I think most likely that the Equinox AND the ML80 will probably remain 4.1 Bluetooth...

Thanks, Florida Son!

Steve

 

[Florida Son]

my friend.

 

[Ohio Coinhunter]

I’m wondering now if the Miccus SR 71 headphones I bought are 4.2. They paired with my Nox 600 and seemed to work fine with no issues. I looked on the box last week and saw the 5.0. However after reading about how some won’t pair after updating to 2.0, I ordered the Trond one on Amazon. But looking closer at the description it does say BH 01. I tried to cancel but too late they shipped. I’m going to try them and see and return them if they don’t work.

 

[trojdor]

I’m wondering now if the Miccus SR 71 headphones I bought are 4.2. They paired with my Nox 600 and seemed to work fine with no issues. I looked on the box last week and saw the 5.0. However after reading about how some won’t pair after updating to 2.0, I ordered the Trond one on Amazon. But looking closer at the description it does say BH 01. I tried to cancel but too late they shipped. I’m going to try them and see and return them if they don’t work.

Or, perhaps the much simpler answer:
They really are just what the box says they are....and that BT 5.0 really is fully backwards compatible with 4.1 and 4.2 devices....just like the BT 5.0 standard states it is.

For what it's worth, I've got a Trond BT-DUO X BT 5.0 Receiver module that pairs perfectly with both the 800 and the 600.

I look forward to the results of your Trond test, and of course, Steve's testing.....

Happy New Year,

mike

 

[sgoss66]

I’m wondering now if the Miccus SR 71 headphones I bought are 4.2. They paired with my Nox 600 and seemed to work fine with no issues. I looked on the box last week and saw the 5.0. However after reading about how some won’t pair after updating to 2.0, I ordered the Trond one on Amazon. But looking closer at the description it does say BH 01. I tried to cancel but too late they shipped. I’m going to try them and see and return them if they don’t work.

Ohio Coinhunter --

So, are you saying that you have a set of Miccus SR-71 headphones, that the box says are Bluetooth version 5.0, and they paired with your Equinox just fine? This is very interesting. It sounds like you also ordered a pair of Trond TD-BH01 headphones as well. Please report back, regarding whether they pair properly, or not, as I am very curious to hear about this.

One other question -- how long ago did you purchase your 600?

Thanks!

Steve

 

[sgoss66]

Mike,

Can you tell me a little more about your Trond receiver module? Is this something similar to the WM-08, where you plug a wired set of headphones into it, and then you pair it with the Equinox?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[trojdor]

Steve,
Yes.
It's a very small module,...about 1.25" x 1.75".
Built in Li battery.
It can operate EITHER as a transmitter or receiver ... but not both at once..

So you can use it just like the WM-08.
Note however, that since it's just Bluetooth, even with AptX LL, it's still not as fast as the proprietary WM08 module.

mike

 

[Ohio Coinhunter]

OK. Yes the Miccus SR-71’s pair with my Nox 600. I tested it again today. I see the Bluetooth icon, a + sign and tiny headphones all together in the upper right corner of the screen. Audio seems fine air testing no grossly apparent lag. I bought them off Amazon a few months back thinking they were automatically the 4.2 version as everyone on the forums talked about them being the same ones without the Minelab logo including the dealer I got the Nox from. I only went out a few hours as my schedule and a hot bone dry summer limited more time out hunting.

So after reading about doing the 2.0 update, I seen and read posts about how the headphones didn’t pair up afterwards. Then posts about Miccus updating to 5.0 Bluetooth. So I dig out the box and look and sure enough the specifications list:

Bluetooth 5 with aptX Low Latency, Bluetooth Profiles: A2DP, AVRCP, HFP, 20 hours playback, 180 hours standby, Operating Range 33ft, 2 year warranty.

So now I’m thinking that if I upgrade to 2.0 the headphones likely won’t pair. OK no biggie, I’ll use them for the TV when Wifey goes to bed and I stay up.

So back to more reading and found info on the Trond. I look on Amazon and they have them listed as 4.2 aptX LL. These have the mic over the ear which I wasn’t aware of until I read the description again after ordering them last Friday. Then I read Steve’s post on the Trond, read the Amazon description again and it says BH 01, not BT. I tried to cancel the order but too late, already in the shipping pile and I’ll get them tomorrow. I wanted to cancel them because when I read they have a mic, I figured they’re the wrong ones anyway, plus the BH 01.

So...now that I’m even more confused with these headphones lol, I bought a brand new WM-08 wireless module on Flea site last night for a hair over $70. I’ll use it as a backup if all else fails. I used the WM-10’s on my CTX year before last and have no issues with using that type of setup

So...when the Tronds come I’ll try them and see. Probably not till Wednesday as I’ll be home chilling on New Year’s Day. I will let you know what happens. I can return them if they don’t work.

 

[Ohio Coinhunter]

Steve, long story short, I sold my CTX the beginning of the year due to the weight and my shoulder. I had an E-Trac new in the box I bought from a friend of a coworker who couldn’t get out and use it due to health issues. I got it for $500 and it had near 2 years warranty left. I was looking to trade it due to same issue with the weight and my shoulder, but I was leaning towards a Whites MX sport thinking I’d try water hunting since I’m a few miles from Lake Erie. I saw a post here in the classifieds back late this August early September looking to buy/trade for a E-Trac. I responded and it was Coop from Vance Metal Detectors. He was happy to swap for a MXS but said I would be better off with the Nox. However since I really don’t get out as much as I’d like for the time being, I’m better off with the 600 rather than the 800 as I don’t need the single 20 or 40 kHz. Plus the light weight. So we traded. I bought the Miccus SR 71 headphones off Amazon the next day. Got them and the Nox a day apart. Paired up fine. First time out to an old park I’ve pounded for years yielded a crusty wheat about 8” deep. Wow I thought, I’m hitting coins as deep as the CTX and E-Trac and this thing doesn’t kill my shoulder after an hour or so lol. A few short hunts after that too.

So I like it. I just want to get the right wireless headphones, do the update and learn the detector as it is different than the FBS. Plus I figure that soon enough Minelab will build higher end detectors off this platform.

Jim

 

[trojdor]

Jim,
A couple of things...

Only believe about half what you read on the internet, and then take that half with a grain of salt.

In other words, don't let it scare you off from updating your 600 to the 2.0 firmware.
You can always do the 2.0 update....then go back to the 1.75 if you don't like it, or it doesn't work for you.

I suspect, however, that...just like me...your phones will work perfectly fine with BT 5.0 on 2.0 firmware.
But, there's only one way to know for sure,

mike

 

[sgoss66]

Mike,

Thanks for the info. So, you are using your Trond unit as a transmitter; it says it's Bluetooth 5.0, which to me, implies that it would be capable of RECEIVING Bluetooth 5.0 (when using it as a receiver), and TRANSMITTING Bluetooth 5.0 (when using it as a transmitter, as you are). Hmm...

Jim,

THANKS for the additional info.

I know, this is all confusing. Let me see if I can clear up at least some of your confusion, by clarifying some things, while also noting areas I'm still uncertain, as well.

1. The Miccus SR-71 Stealth, Trond TD-BH01, AND the Minelab ML80 headphones are all a "BT80" headphone. What that means is, the factory that produces them, calls them a "BT80." Then, each seller -- Miccus, Trond, and Minelab, as just three examples -- give their specifications to the factory, their label, and their preferred "model number," and the factory then makes a production run of BT80 headphones per the specifications set by the company who placed the order, and with the logo and model number specified by the company. So, the Miccus, Trond, and Minelab headphones are ALL a "BT80" headphone, but Miccus calls theirs an SR-71, Trond calls theirs a TD-BH01, and Minelab calls theirs an ML80. But, at their core, they are ALL BT80 headphones. Now, with that said, the specs can vary slightly; Miccus SR-71 phones (at least the older versions) used a Qualcomm chipset called CSR8670. I believe this is the same chipset used by Minelab. Meanwhile, I believe that Trond specifies a slightly different chipset, a Qualcomm CSR64215. Bottom line, though, is that aside from some minor differences, all are --at their core, a BT80 headphone produced in one of a few different factories.

2. I still am not sure where the issue lies, with the pairing issues that have cropped up recently; you say that your Miccus SR-71 phones are the newer Bluetooth 5.0 version, and that they pair with your Equinox properly. So this is different from what some others have said. Tonight, I will be testing the Miccus SR-71 headphones I mentioned, that are also 5.0, and I will be testing them on my v2.0 firmware Equinox.

3. I would not worry about upgrading to 2.0 firmware, Jim, with fear that your Miccus phones won't pair anymore. After all, you can always "roll back" to version 1.75, if you needed to (Minelab gives us that option, as Mike "trojdor" noted in his last post).

4. The Trond headphones you ordered, are the right ones. The Miccus and Minelab phones also have a microphone. Don't worry, the Trond phones don't have a "mic over the ear!" There is no such thing! The "over the ear" thing refers to the style of headphone (the ear cups fit "over your ear" as opposed to "inside your ear" like a set of earbuds). They should have included a comma in there, as "mic" and "over the ear" are two separate characteristics of the headphones, LOL! While the Trond phones do have a few more buttons on the opposite ear cup, that are not on the Miccus and Minelab phones (track skip, etc., for listening to music), they still are -- at their core, a BT80 headphone (built to Trond's specs) that have always paired well with the Equinox. Give them a try, when they come; I'll be trying the Trond set that was sent to me tonight also (along with the Miccus set).

Yes, Jim, I moved over to the EQX from FBS as well -- and for the same reasons as you...easier to swing, WITHOUT losing any performance. While Multi-IQ IS different from FBS, the capability of both technologies, in terms of depth (at least in my dirt) is nearly the same -- with a slight edge going to Multi-IQ. The wireless headphones are an added advantage -- I LOVE going totally wireless, with no cord to get in the way, tangled in trees, etc.

Hopefully, this has helped a bit. It's quite confusing, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what the issues here are, though I do NOT think it's a Minelab firmware issue, at this point. Again, I'm running 2.0, and my "BT80" headphones are working just fine -- the same as they did with 1.5 and 1.75 firmware. I'll know perhaps a bit more tonight, after attempting to pair the Miccus and Trond phones...

Thanks!

Steve

 

[trojdor]

Mike,

Thanks for the info. So, you are using your Trond unit as a transmitter; it says it's Bluetooth 5.0, which to me, implies that it would be capable of RECEIVING Bluetooth 5.0 (when using it as a receiver), and TRANSMITTING Bluetooth 5.0 (when using it as a transmitter, as you are). Hmm...
Steve

Steve, No.

I'm using it just like the WM08 (with wired earbuds) which is a RECEIVER module.
Just like the RECEIVER modules in the headphones.

However, I've also used it as a transmitter, just to see if it worked with other detectors that don't have any built in BT transmitters like the EQ does. (It does, and pairs find with the SR-71s)

But I'm using it to communicate with the EQs just like the wireless headphones communicate with the EQ.
And it works perfectly.

 

[trojdor]

Steve,
Here's a pic or two, if that helps to visualize.:

 

[sgoss66]

Mike,

OK, DUH!!! My brain was thinking about things backwards!!!

Yes, the EQX is transmitting the signal, the Miccus unit is receiving, and then sending the signal via wire to your wired headphones. DUH!

Steve

 

[trojdor]

Don't feel bad.

You should see me first thing in the morning. I can barely talk, and (almost) don't know my own name. LOL


mike

 

[Ohio Coinhunter]

The Trond headphones arrived today. I charged them and then tried to pair them with my Nox 600. Couldn’t get them to pair. Tried a few times as well as looked over the instructions again. Tried the Miccus and they paired no problem. So I’m going to send the Trond’s back and just keep the Miccus.

 

[sgoss66]

Ohio Coinhunter --

FASCINATING. I tried both sets today, that I received in the mail, that would not pair with the other gentleman's Equinox. Both sets -- the Trond AND the Miccus, paired perfectly. I will write this finding up in more detail, shortly, but before you send the Trond phones back, I'd like to chat with you, if you are willing, by phone.

I'll send you a PM...

Steve

 

[Ohio Coinhunter]

Well the Trond’s paired to the 600 thanks to Steve helping me out. I like them. I’m going to keep them as they fit better and are more comfortable. Thanks again Steve!