Infinium broken or user error...?

[controlfreq]

I am having some issues with my Infinium and just cannot be sure if it is a problem with the electronics or just a loose screw/nut holding the swing arm... I have seen so many comments by other Infinium owners that swear by them, I realize that mine is either broken or I just have no clue what I am doing (never like to admit to that last one but always have to reserve it as a possibility.)

I took it down to South Padre Island Texas recently and although I did find a lot more coins than I have in recent memory it seems the PITA factor was a lot higher and the unit needed more frequent retuning. There were times when I just was not able to quieten it down at all and would give up for a day. I have two coils, the stock DD and the 8"mono. I played around with both coils but did not see any sort of pattern emerge. Also replaced the batteries with a fresh set (four beeps.)

The method of ground balancing (GB) I use is placing the coil flat on the sand near the wet sand with threshold and descr, set to Lock, and adj freq (if necessary.) Next move to Fast and pump up/down a few times, place on sand, wait/pause, and repeat (repeat again as needed.) Then repeat on slow. Set to Lock and start hunting. There were a few times I could get it to quieten down and other times it would not. Some times after hunting a while I would have to repeat the GB steps but usually by then it was too noisy and could not be quietened down. It would start off OK and then get an attitude; other times it would start off with the attitude. Either case, when attitude developed then just as well quit.

The irony is that when it was working "quietly" I was finding coins. On the "other hand" even though I found a lot of quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies (old clad and new clad) I didn't find any jewelry. Did find pull tabs, tent stakes, and all sorts of aluminum trash. Even found a Hot Wheels car buried about 6+ inches. (I don't think you can bury a beer can deep enough that the Infinium will not find it, stable or not...)

My other detector (which I am more familiar with) is an older Tesoro Stingray (VLF.) I have noticed that the Stingray is more sensitive to smaller items than the Infinium or it may be that I just cannot hear them over the background noise and falsing.

Oh, and there are lots of flecks of iron on the beach about the size of my fingernail that drive my Tesoro Stingray insane but the Infinium completely ignores them; is that good or bad? They will stick to a magnet.

I am open to all objective comments and suggestions.

Thanks
John

 

[Fishers Ghost]

It is a bit odd that you machine does not respond to pieces of iron the size of a finger nail. If it is iron it should sound off quite strong .

What tones do you get from tent pegs/ Does this tone remain the same in rev disc?

Your GB method sounds fine. Be sure that the Disc is at zero when doing the GB.

When the noise sets in , does it happen when the coil is not moving or only when sweeping or both?

Does the problem only occure in one particular location?

When doing the frequency adjust , is the noise changed in any way?

 

[controlfreq]

I believe tent pegs made a low/high sound but not 100% on that (odd I don't remember considering how many I found.)

There were times when I would leave the detector motionless (coil sitting on sand) and it would continue to chirp for a moment. I would adjust the frequency but it didn't seem to have any effect.

When you say "one location" are you referring to a particular spot or region? I was hunting a variety of areas on South Padre Island, TX. One location was about ten miles "up island" without even a cell tower within range. (Phones were in the Dodge Diesel, engine off, if that is a factor.)

That GB sequence is gleaned from back posts in various forums.

Also, I did check the cable connections and jiggled the cable to see if may have an intermittent open but there was no effect from that.

The little flecks of iron puzzled me since I was under the impression that the Infinium would pick up anything that would stick to a magnet. (My old Stingray (VLF) seems to find "ghosts" of iron where the original nail or pin has rusted away; at least that is my guess. That is all I have to compare to... FYI, I have a fairly heavy gold plated serpentine necklace that in an air test, sounds like a buried battle ship on the VLF; the Infinium completely ignores it.

There were times when it would make a tone in one direction but not on the return swing. I did pay close attention to ground clearance (not raising/lowering at end of swing.)

My major concern with the chatter and instability is loosing resolution/depth and consequently smaller targets. Targets such as dimes, nickels, and larger seem to give tones that are usually stronger than the chatter or so I hope.

Thanks
John

 

[Gord (Tecumseh)]

John, were you moving back a forth from dry sand to wet sand? That would require a new ground balance when going into wet sand. In Maui last March, I ground balanced in dry sand and did not move to the wet sand. Did find a few small pieces of costume jewellery. Also, when I balance, I don't start in lock. I turn the machine on then place it on the sand in the slow track mode. I bob it a few times til the noise settles. Then I switch to fast track mode, lay the coil on the sand then bob again. Then set it to lock and go.
To tell a "dumb" story , I hunted in fresh water at home and when I dug the last of my coin targets, I also wondered why no iron or jewellery. When I looked at my settings, I noticed that while swinging the coil and detecting, I had inadvertently moved the discrimination to the highest level. I call it my "duh" moment. At least I learned that the iron discrimination works on the Infinium.

 

[controlfreq]

Can't say that I didn't have a few duh (mb) moments but once I noticed what I perceived to be a problem I tried to approach it systematically.

I would ground balance in the wet sand by the water (just noticed that typo in my original post). It is my understanding that once balanced for the wet sand at water's edge then it would handle dry or wet sand w/o re-balancing. With that said, I tried it both ways and with it in lock and fast/slow at different times. I couldn't find a pattern. Bobbing it up and down like in the user's manual would sometimes quieten it down but no always... and it wouldn't stay quiet. Tried searching with it in fast, slow, bobbing and locking, and always with the descr and threshold at 0.

Probably should have carried a notebook to keep notes on what I tried; note to self...

Thanks
John

 

[therover]

When going through the freq check, do you always keep the coil on the ground ? That check is for EMI and outside interference, and if you have never run through the sequence with the coil in the air, 2-3 feet above the ground ( as the first step before anything else), I suggest try that. It may be that the frequency check is not fully being optimized when the coil is on or very near the wet sand.

Also, don't be afraid to use the discrimination adjustment to try to quiet the unit down. There have been several times I have had to run in the 1.5 - 3 range on some of the NJ beaches I hunt due to different conditions. In addition, use the threshold adjustment in conjunction with the discrimination adjustment to make the unit stable. One thing about using PI units, is that a stable unit is much more functional than an unstable one, no matter how 'hot' the unstable unit may be. Once you get to know how the Infinium works and it's nuances, you can run it hot. Until then, up the discrimination into the 2-3 range if necessary and raise the threshold a bit to increase some of the sensitivity on the tone ID.

One thing unique about the Infinium is the tone ID. If you get a REPEATABLE hi/lo or lo/hi signal when sweeping from multiple angles, it's a target and not a false. I have been able to eliminate a lot of false signal chasing this way. It may stop you in it's tracks with a first hi/lo or lo/hi signal that you need to investigate, but if that signal becomes very weak and disappears from different angles and does NOT repeat with the same audio tone and strength ( meaning it can be a weak signal, but the SAME weak signal from sweeping from different angles) than its more than likely NOT a target.

A repeatable strong or weak signal from multiple angles is more than likely a target..could be iron, but still a target and not a false.

Just so you are aware, I use the 10x14 mono coil exclusively when beach hunting, When I ground balance ( always with discrimination at 0 and threshold about 4-5), I don't bob the coil, but sweep it very slowly over the wet sand in FAST mode, than SLOW mode for a minute or two until the unit settles down and I get a smooth threshold without any hi/lo or lo/hi chirping. If I do and can't get it to settle, I adjust the discrimination up a bit and usually that settles it down. Sometimes I do run in SLOW mode if I think the conditions are changing a bit.

 

[controlfreq]

Usually when I hit a weak or flaky signal I start circling in on it and again as I am digging the hole... if warranted.

All the balancing was done with the coil flat on the wet sand and threshold/descr at zero. I will try adjusting the freq this time with the coil in the air. Seems like I did try to hunt some with the unit on fast and/or slow with little change. However you did say a minute or two on the GB so I may have been rushing it since I normally do "the bob" method.

Suppose I should ask, what exactly am I listening for when I adj the freq. I was listening for any kind of noise present with the detector motionless. Approximately how long between adjustments should be allowed for settling out?

I do recall making gradual systematic adjustments to the descr and the threshold with little noticeable change.

Thanks
John

 

[Fishers Ghost]

The frequency adjust must be done slowly.
With the detector on and in Lock, disc at zero, and threshold at 5 or higher, rest the coil on the ground or just above it a few inches and not moving, listen for any random tone changes.
If noisy, select freq adjust(tones will go a bit quiet and may be difficult to hear) and then move the disc control a small amount at a time ( say 1/16 inch per time) and wait about 3 seconds between each adjustment before moving the control a bit further if necessary.
You ar listening for a smoothing out of the threshold and a reduction in volume. You will hear a slow pulsing threshold as you are approaching the correct freq adjust setting for the interference you are having. Other settings will produce very rapid tone changes or some very loud tones in two or three positions.
at around the 11 oclock and 2 oclock position..
Make sure that the batteries are all good and that all battery connections are good. Also check inside the battery compartment and look for corrosion or rust on the control box battery spring connectors.

Something I have noticed when using heavy duty NiMh 2800mah batteries is that they are slightly larger that the standard batteries and are a tight fit in the battery holder to the extent that the negative teminal spring does not have enough tension to keep the batteries in good contact with each other; it cannot overcome the friction from the plastic sides of the holder and so if you are not carefull in placing the batteries in the holder, some of them can have an intermittant contact with the next battery and this WILL cause random tone changes and can even cause the detector to switch itself off at random times.

Your detector sounds to me to have a control box fault and it might be an idea to give garrett a call.

 

[controlfreq]

I've been using alkaline cells; seems like the first time I put the rechargeable ones in I had trouble getting them back out. I normally remove the battery from the machine when I put it back in the toy closet. (I've been trying to find a good system of rechargeables for my electronic toys but to date nothing matches my specs...)

I have been contemplating sending it in for Garret for a check up just to rule out any equipment issues, this helps me with the decision. When I get it back then I can concentrate on fixing the "user error" w/o the uncertainty.

Thanks to all you guys for taking the time to respond to my questions. There is good information in here and this thread is going in my PC archive and my field notebook.

Thanks again.
John

 

[Fishers Ghost]

For some reason good qual alkalines seem to give more stable operation from the infinium.

It was interesting to note that you had trouble pulling the rechargables out of the compartment. This indicates to me that the batts were high capacity type and are a tight fit in the holder and the battery compartment therefore when you push the battery holder into the detector the batteries will be moved back in the holder towards the rear end and this can result in poor contact at the other end or between two batteries because the spring connectors are not strong enought o overcome the tight fit and push the batteries back into their correct seating positions..

When using NiMh batteries make certain that the pack slides easily into the detector battery compartment. 2100 to 2300 mah should be fine and are quite capable of running the infinium for 10 hours+

It will be interesting to find out what Garrett have to say.

 

[controlfreq]

To All:

Tag this thread and I will update here whenever I get it back from Garrett.

Thanks
John

 

[controlfreq]

OK, finally made it across town to drop off the Infinium at Garrett; the wait is on...

 

[Crispy Critter]

Looking forward to hearing back from you.

 

[controlfreq]

OK, got a call from Garrett today; apparently my equipment is a little older than I realized (wife tells me that too...)

I believe the Garrett rep said the unit is an 04 model and needed the saltwater optimization upgrade (don't remember if he mentioned the mono coil upgrade.) They also found issues with both coils needing the wiring upgrade and one coil had a crack in the epoxy. By the time he finished telling me everything they found wrong I thought it was going to be cheaper to buy a new one. Then he said $50 ($49.59 or something like that.) I was astonished. These guys really do have world class customer service.

Oh, and they ship it back to me on their nickle.

So far, I cannot say enough good things about Garrett customer service.

BTW, if you ever have the chance, go by there. They have a museum of stuff found by Garrett detectors the world over. It will really get the adrenalin flowing... especially the replica of that 35lb gold nugget...

John

 

[ivanll]

OK, got a call from Garrett today; apparently my equipment is a little older than I realized (wife tells me that too...)

I believe the Garrett rep said the unit is an 04 model and needed the saltwater optimization upgrade (don't remember if he mentioned the mono coil upgrade.)

John

"Saltwater optimization upgrade"...................... that's a new one........................ I like it......................should be of interests to a whole lot of Infinium LS users that do beach work.

ivanll

 

[controlfreq]

I may have incorrectly paraphrased the Garrett rep. Apparently there is something Garrett did to make the machines more stable in salt. I have heard it talked about in various forums but did not realize my machine was such an early production model. Apparently there have been several changes to the Infinium during it's life and the older units (like mine) benefit from a trip back to the factory. Hopefully I can glean more info from the invoice when the unit arrives.

John

 

[Fishers Ghost]

The only upgrades to the Infinium that we are aware of in Australia are those instigated/developed by The Gold Mining Centre here in Australia.
These mods enabled the Infinium to operate in our extreme iron mineralised ground and are now incorporated into all current model Infiniums.
I think that if you were wanting a detector for beach work primarily then the Sea Hunter would have been a better choice. The Infinium requires some adjustment in order for it to run well on salt beaches.
Having said that, I use my very early model Infinium for all of my beach work ; Prior to that I used an Sov XS and 15 inch WOT Coil and a BHID for many years but since owning the INf the SOV has not seen the light of day at the beach. The BHID gets let loose occasionally.

 

[controlfreq]

@Fisher's Ghost

Actually I got the Infinium for it's versatility, not just as a salt machine. Hopefully some day my MD case will be like a golf bag with a specialized detector for each type of hunting and/or environment... still waiting on the lottery numbers (or Blackbeard's treasure...)

One of my other passions is SCUBA diving so the decision had to involve a detector compatible with that. I already had an older Tesoro Stingray, submersible to somewhere around 60 meters, that was quite capable so I directed my search to PIs. (Plus there were a few times in the past I found myself on some old abandoned gold mines; VLF not so good.) According my research, the Infinium had the best combination of effectiveness, versatility, and price. At the time I got the Tesoro, it fit the same criteria for VLFs in it's price range and had, for a VLF, pretty good salt capability. (It is tricky and noisy, but I have been able to find stuff with it in the wet salty sand. Actually looked at the Sea Hunter briefly back then, but I really wanted a VLF.) The Tesoro was just not so good for salt water diving. And yea, there may be better, more specialized machines out there than the Infinium, for Beach, Black Sand, or whatever, but I'm pretty happy with it... I just got to get better at driving it. And I don't mind the adjustments as long as there are definable patterns, usually the more knobs I have to fiddle with, the better...

BTW, from what I understand the "upgrades" made to my machine are a compilation of the modifications Garrett has been making to the Infinium during it's life (got similar thing with my truck; every few times I take it in for service the dealer gives it new software.) Don't recall everything the rep told me Garrett did to it, but I think I got two new coils and he mentioned some newer components and/or other modifications inside the box. These mods may very well be a product of the lessons learned down under, I cannot say.

And if nothing else, being water proof sure does give piece of mind when hunting at water's edge not to mention hitting it with the hose when putting my toys up for the evening.

John

 

[diggindirt]

Controlfreq, What's the update on your Infinium???

Thanks!

 

[controlfreq]

diggindirt,

I'm not exactly sure I understand your question. I sent my Infinium in for a check up because it was acting strangely. I also sent in both coils. I turns out I had one of the earlier models and from what I have read, those had trouble with the mono coils. The repair ticket cited repairing cracks and shielding on the coils (replaced the cable on the mono; looks thicker.) It also mentioned replacing some components internally. I don't know if that was from failure or an enhancement over the original... I have taken it out to a local park and it seemed to work really well, but the soil conditions were nowhere near the wet salt at the beach. Will be a few more months before I get to test that...

John