Indian Head reading today

[dirtdigginlady]

I went to a friend's house this evening to try once more to find her keys to her motorcycle. No luck there but I did find an 1890 Indian Head and it read a 52 in the hole and out of the hole. I thought that was odd. I really could not tell what it was til I got it home and cleaned it up but usually IH's read around 70 for me with the MXT.

 

[Rob (IL)]

Hi,

The 52 is not unusual. There are a lot of factors that can change the reading including the year of the Indian. Maybe Nancy will remember what her fatty read. Rob

 

[Nancy-IL]

I think every one of my Indian cents jumped around on the VDI reading. The last one I got (1865) was jumping all over. When out of the ground, it was a solid 52. I've found a couple of 1859 fatties and they too jumped all over the place on the VDI.

Maybe you've got your gain set too high if the bike keys were lost recently. They should ring out loud and clear. Do they have an extra set? If so, let your detector sniff the keys....then go from there. You'll find them.

HH to all,
Nancy

 

[Monte]

Most Indian Head will read 'similar' to a screw cap or modern zinc cent, but early varieties can read lower, or those that are word or otherwise compromised.

Monte

 

[nw1886]

All pennies from mid 1864 to mid 1982 (except for WWII years) are the same composition. The ground does it's leaching thing with the surface of them, and that's where the variables in VDI's occur. Nice find!!

 

[Monte]

All pennies from mid 1864 to mid 1982 (except for WWII years) are [size=medium]reported to have[/size] the same composition.

I took the liberty of adding three simple descriptive words to your statement to make it correct.

It should be clarified, too, that in 1982 they made the 'traditional' copper cent as well as started the modern Zinc cent, so an '82 could be either.

The ground does it's leaching thing with the surface of them, and that's where the variables in VDI's occur. Nice find!!

While it's correct that, in time and when stable in a compacted soil environment, and with ample moisture and/or chemical make-up, some modest amount of leaching can occur, it is nothing like some people have claimed. With gold there's none, and with silver it is very, very minimal.

The fact is, those earlier coins were made with metal alloys that we not necessarily as 'clean' or 'pure' as desired. I have used a dozen or more specimens of NEVER BURIED, NEVER DUG US cents from mid-1864 thru into the earlier "wheat-back" mintage. Coin collection coins. Almost all of them, at least 95%-98% of them will register lower on a VDI scale than will a 'good' copper cent from the '30s, 50's, '60s, etc.

From some testing I have heard done in the past, the main blame goes to less-than-pure copper. The source of the copper and any foundry processing can be the culprit.

I noted this difference in Indian Head's and some wheaties from 1909 thru 1919 even before we had Target ID, and VDI numbers, and the blasted Zinc cents. It wasn't easy because most discriminators only adjusted thru pull tab so you couldn't reject any pennies and dimes and get any indication. I had one models long ago that did have a very high-end discriminate capability and while tinkering with it I noted the differences.

Just learned experiences, thoughts, and opinions.

Monte

 

[dirtdigginlady]

I found another 1890 that I dug a couple years back and it reads a 70. Guess it's just the difference in the metal. They are both in the same condition which is pretty good.

 

[nw1886]

Never suspected that there are substantial differences in alloy "norms" for coins and that sounds like a good little project to run a test on. I do know that compositions varied widely on US copper up until about the mid 1820's. Our supply of planchets was coming mostly from Britain and we weren't exactly being given the best treatment at that point in time! US production of copper (from indigenous ore) began a little earlier... but QC was an issue for a while. After that, the only alloying issues (that I know of) were in the beginning periods, of our nickel compositioned coins... or less than full mixing during smelting. (That could very well be where "the rub" is and bad mixes are more prevalent in the years you have mentioned. ) You've piqued my interest with your post and going to check that out with some folks who would know. I know that specterals have been ran on ancients, Charlotte/Dalonega gold, and RARE stuff. Don't know if it has been done with average samplings of specific series though?

This may sound like a "silly" pursuit but we are starting to run across more and more scary counterfeits at work... and they will only get scarier!


With the "ground leaching" thing. Some specific hunting sites come to mind where all silver (or copper) have given skewed VDI's. These places ran the gamete from an old dry cleaner,under tree's that were the decorative berry type or heavily managed soil. No matter depth...quarters/dimes were pennies, pennies mid foil and way different on everything else too! the silver comes out white/heavily oxidized and the pennies almost look rusted and orange-ish. Out of the ground... the numbers were much closer to what they should be. All these dang variables is what keeps it interesting for us I guess! I hope I can get back to a few of these sites with the V3! Be cool to see what it does on the readings.

 

[JiminSD]

For those interested below are the compositions of the pennies over the years. Intuitively one would think other factors in the environment and equipment would play a bigger role on the VDI readings.

From 1837 to 1857, the cent was made of bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc).
From 1857 to 1864 , the cent was 88 percent copper and 12 percent nickel, giving the coin a whitish appearance.
The cent was again bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc) from 1864 to 1962, except: In 1943, the coin's composition was changed to zinc-coated steel. This change was only for the year 1943 and was due to the critical use of copper for the war effort. However, a limited number of copper pennies were minted that year.
In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc.
The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). Cents of both compositions appeared in that year.

 

[;hgarr]

Hi didtdigginlady.

If the ring and the keys are steel or chrome plated, they are extremely easy to discriminate out and cannot be heard with normal hunting settings. It may be necessary to reduce your discrimination settings to accept down to nearly zero in order to pick them up. Hope this might help you and the best of hunting to you;;;;;;;;;How.

 

[Giant056]

Last year I found the most Indian's I've ever found in 1 single year (70) and most of them would normally read in the 60's but many read in the 50's also.