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If a nail is buried on top of a coin your screwed
- Thread starter Bugalooob
- Start date
Seems like a hard test but I can tell you that I have found quite a few good targets with nails and other iron mixed in. I dont know if they were directly under the junk or not but I do know that they were in the same hole and I dug the junk before I found the good targets. I'm sure that there are countless scenarios where our machines just will not pick up a target, but I am alright with it as I never knew it was missed in the first place. HH
My F75 fails the same test.
I'm begging someone over the Vision forum to repeat this easy test but so far I've got no takers.
What happens when you put a 2" long nail on the glass and put a silver dime exactly 6" from the nail on the ground (sanitized, of course)? I still cannot see the coin when I sweep in either direction with my F75. I've got my nail oriented at a 45 degree angle to the line joining the nail and coin as a compromise between oriienting the nail exactly parallel or perpendicular to the line.
I'm begging someone over the Vision forum to repeat this easy test but so far I've got no takers.
What happens when you put a 2" long nail on the glass and put a silver dime exactly 6" from the nail on the ground (sanitized, of course)? I still cannot see the coin when I sweep in either direction with my F75. I've got my nail oriented at a 45 degree angle to the line joining the nail and coin as a compromise between oriienting the nail exactly parallel or perpendicular to the line.
Hard Nosed Dave
New member
but accounts for the larger portion of intrusive and interfering "ferrous" material in certain soils of the many colonial sites that I hunt. If ever there was an interfering mineral that played havoc with a detector, then this stuff is one of them....
Density of it's presence will vary out in a field in different areas, so what I am showing here is an exaggerated density for this contrived experiment.
I've cracked one of these pebbles open to show the contents.
Okay it's not a rusty nail/fixing that is or was once made of a solid , but now maybe corroded iron material, but it might as well be, given it's a mass of magnetic ferrous oxide.
If I place a silver, copper or gold coin (any non ferrous target) under a 1&1/2 inch layers of this stuff, which I have hand picked to ensure that each one is magnetic ...
the Etrac detects the presence of that non ferrous target underneath it for up to 4 inches
and will still detect the presence of that target but ONLY in PINPOINT mode for up to 5 1/2 inches. I've tried this over and over again. The Etrac will do this over the detectors I've tried.
It may or may not say something else that's great about the Etrac to some of you BUT I'm pretty impressed with this ability that it has.
I have only been able to get a similar indication of a target that is present in this stuff from the Eric Foster Deepstar and a Tessoro SandShark( both P.I.). I would have to dig to see if it were ferrous or no ferrous.
I hope to get to the sites again as soon as possible and before the rains start to try this with the various size coils.....
Density of it's presence will vary out in a field in different areas, so what I am showing here is an exaggerated density for this contrived experiment.
I've cracked one of these pebbles open to show the contents.
Okay it's not a rusty nail/fixing that is or was once made of a solid , but now maybe corroded iron material, but it might as well be, given it's a mass of magnetic ferrous oxide.
If I place a silver, copper or gold coin (any non ferrous target) under a 1&1/2 inch layers of this stuff, which I have hand picked to ensure that each one is magnetic ...
the Etrac detects the presence of that non ferrous target underneath it for up to 4 inches
and will still detect the presence of that target but ONLY in PINPOINT mode for up to 5 1/2 inches. I've tried this over and over again. The Etrac will do this over the detectors I've tried.
It may or may not say something else that's great about the Etrac to some of you BUT I'm pretty impressed with this ability that it has.
I have only been able to get a similar indication of a target that is present in this stuff from the Eric Foster Deepstar and a Tessoro SandShark( both P.I.). I would have to dig to see if it were ferrous or no ferrous.
I hope to get to the sites again as soon as possible and before the rains start to try this with the various size coils.....
dreamweaver43
New member
You're just going to have to wait for that nail to rust away.
I've hear that at Whites and Minelab they have metal detectors that find coins at 2 feet, totally don't react to iron targets or pulltabs.....they act like they aren't even metal. They even have settings that ignore clad coins, so you can target silver and gold......they only beep on silver and gold.......I've even heard that they are working on a mode that you can see the date on the coin to figure out if it's worth the time to dig 2 feet down, it's called keydate mode......but that's just a rumor I heard. They don't release them for manufacture because if they did, they would have to charge like 50K for each machine, since metal detecting would end in a few years because nothing would be left to find. And let's face it, Bounty Hunter would take over because you just can't beat one of those on 1 inch clad.......and the manufacturer's margin on Bounty Hunters is pretty slim.
I found 2 wheat pennies last night with my poor etrac last night at a hunted to death park. I was pretty happy with that, since at least 200+ guys or more, over the last 30 years missed those coins, many at the time with the latest and greatest machines............just wish I could convince Ken White to release the "X-Ray V24 Depth Raider" I'm ready to take out a second mortgage on my house if he does..........and I would get my own show on QVC to sell all the coins and jewelery I found!!!!!
Brad
I've hear that at Whites and Minelab they have metal detectors that find coins at 2 feet, totally don't react to iron targets or pulltabs.....they act like they aren't even metal. They even have settings that ignore clad coins, so you can target silver and gold......they only beep on silver and gold.......I've even heard that they are working on a mode that you can see the date on the coin to figure out if it's worth the time to dig 2 feet down, it's called keydate mode......but that's just a rumor I heard. They don't release them for manufacture because if they did, they would have to charge like 50K for each machine, since metal detecting would end in a few years because nothing would be left to find. And let's face it, Bounty Hunter would take over because you just can't beat one of those on 1 inch clad.......and the manufacturer's margin on Bounty Hunters is pretty slim.
I found 2 wheat pennies last night with my poor etrac last night at a hunted to death park. I was pretty happy with that, since at least 200+ guys or more, over the last 30 years missed those coins, many at the time with the latest and greatest machines............just wish I could convince Ken White to release the "X-Ray V24 Depth Raider" I'm ready to take out a second mortgage on my house if he does..........and I would get my own show on QVC to sell all the coins and jewelery I found!!!!!
Brad
Hey go rebels I have a Vision too. I discriminated out pull tabs, put a dime in a prescription pill bottle, placed the pull tab on top of it and tried it. The dime did not appear at all with tone or audio. This was not iron but was disriminated out just the same. Both detectors (Etrac and Vison) nulled over the pull tab.
I will try it with both tis weekend with something like a nail as they have less surface area than a nail. I will port some more info when I do it.
I don't think any detector will get the target as a coin. On a wide open vlf you will get a reading on the the shallow target (or at least it will dominate the identification) or a PI machine which will tell you if any target is there.
I will try it with both tis weekend with something like a nail as they have less surface area than a nail. I will port some more info when I do it.
I don't think any detector will get the target as a coin. On a wide open vlf you will get a reading on the the shallow target (or at least it will dominate the identification) or a PI machine which will tell you if any target is there.
BootyHunter
Active member
I have only had my E-trac for about 6 weeks but I know that at least 3 or 4 times I have gotten a coin signal, dug a plug and used my Propointer pinpointer and found a nail or other piece of iron, removed it then rechecked with E-trac and coin signal still there, dug a little deeper and sure enough it was a coin. That never happened with any other detector I've used. Any other detector would have nulled on the iron or showed the iron only. I don't know about the test you tried I believe you and I am not disputing what you say I am only saying that in the practical use of the detector it will find coins that are directly below rusty iron. Thanks and HH.
Yep, dug a lot of coins under nails with my trusty old Compass 77B.
Here is another test that is fun to try. Ray. Mo. told me to put a zinc penny between a nickel and quarter, three inches apart. See what you get with that test. Some detectors will miss everything, sweeping across the nickel first.
Here is another test that is fun to try. Ray. Mo. told me to put a zinc penny between a nickel and quarter, three inches apart. See what you get with that test. Some detectors will miss everything, sweeping across the nickel first.
I don't think any of these out of ground tests are worth squat. When a coin, or other metal is in the ground for while, it gives off an aura a lot bigger than the item itself, and a lot of what the detector sees is this combined metal and aura. It's no good digging a hole, dropping a coin in and trying either, the coin must remain in the ground for quite a long time, probably more than a year at least, These are my beliefs anyway. HH. Bob
Yes, a rusty nail is much tougher than a new nail.
Guys, if you have an Etrac or Vision, build this little scenario if you have a rusty nail and some clean ground. Water and test.
"What happens when you put a 2" long nail on the glass and put a silver dime exactly 6" from the nail on the ground (sanitized, of course)? I still cannot see the coin when I sweep in either direction with my F75. I've got my nail oriented at a 45 degree angle to the line joining the nail and coin as a compromise between oriienting the nail exactly parallel or perpendicular to the line."
I'll repeat this test with my Fisher F75 with stock 8x11" DD coil, 5" DD and 6" concentric coil and report the findings.
Guys, if you have an Etrac or Vision, build this little scenario if you have a rusty nail and some clean ground. Water and test.
"What happens when you put a 2" long nail on the glass and put a silver dime exactly 6" from the nail on the ground (sanitized, of course)? I still cannot see the coin when I sweep in either direction with my F75. I've got my nail oriented at a 45 degree angle to the line joining the nail and coin as a compromise between oriienting the nail exactly parallel or perpendicular to the line."
I'll repeat this test with my Fisher F75 with stock 8x11" DD coil, 5" DD and 6" concentric coil and report the findings.
fireball10x
New member
Try the general with the nail 3 inches above the coinBill_S said:
Actually, I'm not sure if a Compass 77b would do it at 3" depth difference between of the depth of the glass. Because by the time you add the swing height (let's say, an inch, so you're basically now 4" from the coin), then it become difficult for the 77b. The 77b isn't known for depth, to begin with. At least not by today's standards. Maybe back "in its day" it was deep 
So for example, if the 77b got about 5 or 6" on a coin in clean turf, then of course, that would decrease a bit when seeing through iron. Like, yes, it sees through iron (as other posters here say), but for each nail you add, you loose a bit of depth. So depending on the size nail on the 3" high glass, it may or may not see the coin 3" deeper.
But if you repeated the test with a shorter glass, the power house Explorer would continue to mask (as do all discriminators), but the all-metal TR 77b would get it clearly, especially at increasingly shallower depths. So for places where depth and minerals is not an issue, there are machines that can see through several nails at a time.
This see-through ability is about the only benefit the 77b has. In all other ways, it is a dinasour: no ground balance (lousy in minerals), no other form of TID than just to pass up small iron (ie.: everything else, from foil to silver dollars, sounds the same), and a bear to keep balanced on uneven ground. But for some ghost town type environments, riddled in nails, where a hunter intends to dig all conductors anyhow, it does indeed catch conductive targets buried below small iron, while passing the small iron. I say "small iron" because larger things, like RR spikes, cast iron fragments, etc... will bleed through. With experience, you can tell them though.
So for example, if the 77b got about 5 or 6" on a coin in clean turf, then of course, that would decrease a bit when seeing through iron. Like, yes, it sees through iron (as other posters here say), but for each nail you add, you loose a bit of depth. So depending on the size nail on the 3" high glass, it may or may not see the coin 3" deeper. But if you repeated the test with a shorter glass, the power house Explorer would continue to mask (as do all discriminators), but the all-metal TR 77b would get it clearly, especially at increasingly shallower depths. So for places where depth and minerals is not an issue, there are machines that can see through several nails at a time.
This see-through ability is about the only benefit the 77b has. In all other ways, it is a dinasour: no ground balance (lousy in minerals), no other form of TID than just to pass up small iron (ie.: everything else, from foil to silver dollars, sounds the same), and a bear to keep balanced on uneven ground. But for some ghost town type environments, riddled in nails, where a hunter intends to dig all conductors anyhow, it does indeed catch conductive targets buried below small iron, while passing the small iron. I say "small iron" because larger things, like RR spikes, cast iron fragments, etc... will bleed through. With experience, you can tell them though.
I was a Compass dealer back in the 70's. I used a 77B that would air test a quarter at 12 inches. I hit some Barber dimes at 10 inches, Indian Heads at 12 inches in moist ground. In hard dry ground, the 77B was lucky to get 3 inches deep. My buddy I hunted back then with got the same results. The problem with the Compass, every time you turned it on, it weakened the capacitors and transistors. Today, after 35 years, 4-5 inches is the best it can do. Change all the transistors, and you would get much better depth.
Ozark, I've never heard this concept of the 77b wearing out, and loosing depth "for each time you turned it on". If this is true, then I suppose some old 77b's should show up, now and then, on Ebay, that were ones stuck-in-the-closet way back 35 years ago. I mean, that's no different from now, where someone puts a machine on ebay, that basically was used 2x, and stuck in the closet for 10 yrs. Things like that turn up at estate sales, etc.... I have seen 77b's get sold on ebay before that had absolutely perfect paint jobs, and not a scratch on them (indicating they saw very little use back then).
As far as the 10 or 12" depth you say you got back then with a 77b, I have a few observations: yes, it probably is possible, in an air test, and therefore by extension, some ground tests (perfectly white dry sand, etc...), that a person might replicate this depth. But you would admit you're talking VERY faint whispers. Unlike today's motion machines where there seems to be a "trigger point" where, the target is either "there" or it's "not", the old all-metal TRs seemed to have a never-ending decreasing fading signal, that wasn't just magically "on" or "off" like today's machines. So it was sort of like a person whispering from the end of a big long hallway, eh? The whisper never goes away, but just gets softer and softer and softer, etc....
The other thing I would add is that depths like 10 or 12" on the 77b was for clean signals. When the 77b has a nail above the coin, the nail will produce a null, as you recall. So subsequently, any coin underneath the nail has to over-come the nail above it. That was why the trick only worked to about 3 or so nails. By the time you got to the 4th or 5th nail, they would eventually overpower the coin, and the see-through trick stopped. This was dependant on the relationship between the items too. So for example, a nail at the same depth as the coin, would be different than if the nail was 3 or 4" above the coin, etc....
As far as the 10 or 12" depth you say you got back then with a 77b, I have a few observations: yes, it probably is possible, in an air test, and therefore by extension, some ground tests (perfectly white dry sand, etc...), that a person might replicate this depth. But you would admit you're talking VERY faint whispers. Unlike today's motion machines where there seems to be a "trigger point" where, the target is either "there" or it's "not", the old all-metal TRs seemed to have a never-ending decreasing fading signal, that wasn't just magically "on" or "off" like today's machines. So it was sort of like a person whispering from the end of a big long hallway, eh? The whisper never goes away, but just gets softer and softer and softer, etc....
The other thing I would add is that depths like 10 or 12" on the 77b was for clean signals. When the 77b has a nail above the coin, the nail will produce a null, as you recall. So subsequently, any coin underneath the nail has to over-come the nail above it. That was why the trick only worked to about 3 or so nails. By the time you got to the 4th or 5th nail, they would eventually overpower the coin, and the see-through trick stopped. This was dependant on the relationship between the items too. So for example, a nail at the same depth as the coin, would be different than if the nail was 3 or 4" above the coin, etc....
Has anybody tried the old tried and true XLT in audio pass through mode? I used to hunt an old Indian
School and although it is very intense and hard to hunt for long periods without going nuts in a trashy area, the
audio pass through would preclude discrimination cut out. If no one has tried it, I can get it out of mothballs...
School and although it is very intense and hard to hunt for long periods without going nuts in a trashy area, the
audio pass through would preclude discrimination cut out. If no one has tried it, I can get it out of mothballs...