mtdoramike
Well-known member
likes dis-likes, depth sweep speed, good all around machine, hows the weight compared to Fishers?
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
Mike
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I would like some feedback on the Sovereign GT please..............
- Thread starter mtdoramike
- Start date
Art (NWOH)
New member
Have you ever used a Sov of any kind before?
What kind of hunting do you do?
Are you more into "beep-dig" or do you want very selective target ID ?
Easiest way to start is with my personal dislikes....
It's heavy like all Sovs.
Has problems around too much iron and electrical noise (all Sovs).
Tends to hit on some iron and hot rocks more than other Sovs.
Does not come with a meter or backup alkaline pack.
Factory meter mounting position is not very good for viewing angle.
Threshold control more touchy than I like.
Personal likes..........
Good ground coverage and depth (DD coils- all Sovs).
Good on coins, rings, relics(all Sovs).
Not prone to hitting on nails (all Sovs).
Not prone to hitting on small poorly conductive trash(all Sovs).
Fully modulated audio ( frequency for conductivity, amplitude for strength) (all Sovs).
Accurate ID when meter is used (all Sovs).
All Sov coils work with it.
Hand grip position is adjustable so you can get the balance the way you want.
All metal mode balances and tracks fast. Balance can be locked.
All metal mode shifts the tone freq up for high conductive targets and down for lower conductive targets.
Neutral item........
Slow sweep speed. Not a big deal with the ground coverage of the DD coils, and the weight would cause some major problems with your arm if you tried to sweep it very fast.(all Sovs).
HH
What kind of hunting do you do?
Are you more into "beep-dig" or do you want very selective target ID ?
Easiest way to start is with my personal dislikes....
It's heavy like all Sovs.
Has problems around too much iron and electrical noise (all Sovs).
Tends to hit on some iron and hot rocks more than other Sovs.
Does not come with a meter or backup alkaline pack.
Factory meter mounting position is not very good for viewing angle.
Threshold control more touchy than I like.
Personal likes..........
Good ground coverage and depth (DD coils- all Sovs).
Good on coins, rings, relics(all Sovs).
Not prone to hitting on nails (all Sovs).
Not prone to hitting on small poorly conductive trash(all Sovs).
Fully modulated audio ( frequency for conductivity, amplitude for strength) (all Sovs).
Accurate ID when meter is used (all Sovs).
All Sov coils work with it.
Hand grip position is adjustable so you can get the balance the way you want.
All metal mode balances and tracks fast. Balance can be locked.
All metal mode shifts the tone freq up for high conductive targets and down for lower conductive targets.
Neutral item........
Slow sweep speed. Not a big deal with the ground coverage of the DD coils, and the weight would cause some major problems with your arm if you tried to sweep it very fast.(all Sovs).
HH
Art pretty much summed it up as it is not a perfect detector, but which are?? What i mainly like is once you learn the Sovereign or the GT it will surprise you at what can be found in all those place many thing is worked out. The ID is the best I have ever seen in my 32 years of detecting, but remember you have to learn the detector. If you want a detector that tells you with a beep it thinks you should dig it, then the Sovereign may not be for you, but if you want a detector that will give you info with the tones and the meter reading more accurate than most detector and let you decide if it worth digging or not than the Sovereign is for you.
Remember that speed kills depth on the Sovereigns, so you have to go slower to hear all the signals the Sovereign will get. The Sovereign also hates air as it see nothing to compare a signal too, so air test will not be impressive, but in the ground the depth will impress you once you see how it works.
The GT I feel is a bit more sensitive than the other Sovereign and you can do more with it. I feel Minelab made a big improvement when they built the GT, but it is not perfect either as it is still heavy and I wish the would put a remote pinpoint switch on the hand grip for easy use.
Rick
Remember that speed kills depth on the Sovereigns, so you have to go slower to hear all the signals the Sovereign will get. The Sovereign also hates air as it see nothing to compare a signal too, so air test will not be impressive, but in the ground the depth will impress you once you see how it works.
The GT I feel is a bit more sensitive than the other Sovereign and you can do more with it. I feel Minelab made a big improvement when they built the GT, but it is not perfect either as it is still heavy and I wish the would put a remote pinpoint switch on the hand grip for easy use.
Rick
Art (NWOH)
New member
but you know that you don't get hype from me.
Besides, if we didn't like the overall performance then we woudn't use 'em.
HH
Besides, if we didn't like the overall performance then we woudn't use 'em.
HH
I use other detectors too, but always have a Sovereign to use when I need to check out a area and want to get seriuos. I just wish I could get out more and start posting some of the great finds it can find.
Going to try to post some picture here of some of my past finds with the Sovereign from those areas many think is worked out.
Going to try to post some picture here of some of my past finds with the Sovereign from those areas many think is worked out.
I just traded a CZ5 towards a GT and should get it next week and your posts peeked my interest before it arrives and would appreciate any input if you could.
I understand the Sov works best with slow sweep speed for depth but how is the target recovery reset speed, will it hit targets close together at a slower sweep ? The Musky will thats why i'm asking.
The Musky with the Control box in front of the grip is forward leaning causing hand ,wrist and arm fatigue but with Box under the arm cuff it's very comfortable for me.Is there a big difference between the Musky and Sovereign if both are rear mounted ?
I have an XLT and love the tone ID and it sounds like a harmonica in high target areas as each VDI # has it's own tone ,is the Sov similar to the Whites XLT, DFX and for that matter the Explorer or is it more segmented?
I plan on getting a meter and i really like the Patriot feedback and appears it can be used as a facet ID similar to the Fisher CZ5 and 3D Detectors and also linear which is similar to the Whites XL Pro.Then there is the Digital Meter from Minelab and Sun Ray and they appear to be similar to the XLT, DFX numerical readouts.I prefer as much info as i can get and prefer the Linear or numerical VDI, so which one ? The Patriot, Minelab ,or Sun Ray ? Any input would be greatly appreciated HH Bill
I understand the Sov works best with slow sweep speed for depth but how is the target recovery reset speed, will it hit targets close together at a slower sweep ? The Musky will thats why i'm asking.
The Musky with the Control box in front of the grip is forward leaning causing hand ,wrist and arm fatigue but with Box under the arm cuff it's very comfortable for me.Is there a big difference between the Musky and Sovereign if both are rear mounted ?
I have an XLT and love the tone ID and it sounds like a harmonica in high target areas as each VDI # has it's own tone ,is the Sov similar to the Whites XLT, DFX and for that matter the Explorer or is it more segmented?
I plan on getting a meter and i really like the Patriot feedback and appears it can be used as a facet ID similar to the Fisher CZ5 and 3D Detectors and also linear which is similar to the Whites XL Pro.Then there is the Digital Meter from Minelab and Sun Ray and they appear to be similar to the XLT, DFX numerical readouts.I prefer as much info as i can get and prefer the Linear or numerical VDI, so which one ? The Patriot, Minelab ,or Sun Ray ? Any input would be greatly appreciated HH Bill
Bill,
I only used the Advantage for a short period of time as it just didnt work out for me and my coin hunting, but will say the GT mounted under the arm rest works great and feel it will help on the weight problem.
The Sovereign has to go slower as you are hearing much more than you ever did with the XLT or the Musky, if you go too fast depth will suffer as you will probably not even hear the good targets close to trash. I find the slower you go and the more you listen for those tone changes the deeper your finds will be. Now you only want to go super slow where you know targets will be 8 inches and deeper. I went as deep as 14 inches and the display of coins I posted from Oak grove park you see down a little on my post to Art were from 10-12 inches deep and if I would not have been swinging the coil very slow I would have missed them.
As far as separation i feel the Sovereign are excellent for that and with the tones you will hear different targets close to one another where many other detector will average the signals of the target.
As far as meters are conserned I like and use the SunRay meters, but they are no longer made, so you have to find a used one if you want one. The Minelabs meters that were rescaled to the 180 number too were good, but now this new GT if you oder a new meter will be a 180 numbers and now only works with the GT while the SunRay works with all the Sovereigns. The Patriot meter I had and used it a few times and sold it as it was not as percise as the other meters were. The digital I could tell number differnce by one number while with the Patriot I found I could not do this. I also found the 180 meter are faster to respond, but the Patriot you dont have to learn what number means what as it would say it on the meter. With the SunRay or the Minelab 180 meters I found my good coin like copper, sliver and clad would read 179-180, the IH and new zinc pennies and some of the older wheaties would read 176-177 while the screwcaps would be 177-178 in most cases. The nickles would be 144-145 while the beaver tails off the round pulltabw would be 140-141 and yet the war nickle could read from 143-151, but you knew it had the tone of a nickle. With the Patriot I found I could not do this as there is no digital display and it was hard to tell the close one like I could with the SunRay or the Minelab 180 meter.
As you see many like the Patriot meter and do well with it,but it was not for me and my hunting.
Main thing with any one of the Sovereign is it will take time to understand this detector as it is differnt,but once you do I am sure you will love it.
Rick
I only used the Advantage for a short period of time as it just didnt work out for me and my coin hunting, but will say the GT mounted under the arm rest works great and feel it will help on the weight problem.
The Sovereign has to go slower as you are hearing much more than you ever did with the XLT or the Musky, if you go too fast depth will suffer as you will probably not even hear the good targets close to trash. I find the slower you go and the more you listen for those tone changes the deeper your finds will be. Now you only want to go super slow where you know targets will be 8 inches and deeper. I went as deep as 14 inches and the display of coins I posted from Oak grove park you see down a little on my post to Art were from 10-12 inches deep and if I would not have been swinging the coil very slow I would have missed them.
As far as separation i feel the Sovereign are excellent for that and with the tones you will hear different targets close to one another where many other detector will average the signals of the target.
As far as meters are conserned I like and use the SunRay meters, but they are no longer made, so you have to find a used one if you want one. The Minelabs meters that were rescaled to the 180 number too were good, but now this new GT if you oder a new meter will be a 180 numbers and now only works with the GT while the SunRay works with all the Sovereigns. The Patriot meter I had and used it a few times and sold it as it was not as percise as the other meters were. The digital I could tell number differnce by one number while with the Patriot I found I could not do this. I also found the 180 meter are faster to respond, but the Patriot you dont have to learn what number means what as it would say it on the meter. With the SunRay or the Minelab 180 meters I found my good coin like copper, sliver and clad would read 179-180, the IH and new zinc pennies and some of the older wheaties would read 176-177 while the screwcaps would be 177-178 in most cases. The nickles would be 144-145 while the beaver tails off the round pulltabw would be 140-141 and yet the war nickle could read from 143-151, but you knew it had the tone of a nickle. With the Patriot I found I could not do this as there is no digital display and it was hard to tell the close one like I could with the SunRay or the Minelab 180 meter.
As you see many like the Patriot meter and do well with it,but it was not for me and my hunting.
Main thing with any one of the Sovereign is it will take time to understand this detector as it is differnt,but once you do I am sure you will love it.
Rick
funkyoldude
New member
I am a beach hunter.
The Sovereign Elite is not as rugged as a Fisher Impulse, but with the Impulse you have to dig everything. The weight seems about the same to me. It has good depth with large (14" WOT) and small (8" Coinsearch) coils. Sweep speed varies depending on how you mount the control unit, coil size, and the kind of hunting you do.
I have been hunting with my Sovereign Elite for over 2 years, and I love it. It has paid for itself 10 times over in the treasure I have recovered and the fun I've had with it.
Good Luck
fod
The Sovereign Elite is not as rugged as a Fisher Impulse, but with the Impulse you have to dig everything. The weight seems about the same to me. It has good depth with large (14" WOT) and small (8" Coinsearch) coils. Sweep speed varies depending on how you mount the control unit, coil size, and the kind of hunting you do.
I have been hunting with my Sovereign Elite for over 2 years, and I love it. It has paid for itself 10 times over in the treasure I have recovered and the fun I've had with it.
Good Luck
fod
Frank in NH
Active member
Bill if you need a 180 meter made for the GT my hunting buddy has one for sale,as i just sold him a Sunray meter. Myself i prefer the Patriot on my GT.
Art (NWOH)
New member
A bit more about the audio.......
This is not like a multi-tone beeper. More like a VCO.
The sov is pretty much continuously variable in tone as opposed to "stepped". As the sov sees a change in conductivity, it shifts the tone freq to go along with it.
If you swing fast enough it may seem to quickly "step", but I think this has something to do with the sampling rate. If you swing really slow the conductivity reading also changes slow, and the tone will "slide" up or down to match.
You end up with a sound pattern that can be compressed with a faster sweep, or stretched out with a slower sweep. When you listen to the stretched out sound patterns it is easier to pick out and sort through multiple targets.
If you place a nickel and a dime side by side then sweep quickly it will sound like one object. If you sweep slow you will hear a difference as the coil passes over. The tone pattern will go from high to low, then low to high as you sweep from left to right. Definitely not a singular object.
There may be enough averaging to keep you from getting a "good" reading on either object, but you will know that there is more than one there.
Some odd shaped junk can also do this, so nothing is a sure bet. I would dig it .
I think that working slow helps get hits on very weak targets because a too fast sweep will make them appear as a little noise spike and be ignored. The sov needs to look at it long enough to decide that it really is an object.
HH
This is not like a multi-tone beeper. More like a VCO.
The sov is pretty much continuously variable in tone as opposed to "stepped". As the sov sees a change in conductivity, it shifts the tone freq to go along with it.
If you swing fast enough it may seem to quickly "step", but I think this has something to do with the sampling rate. If you swing really slow the conductivity reading also changes slow, and the tone will "slide" up or down to match.
You end up with a sound pattern that can be compressed with a faster sweep, or stretched out with a slower sweep. When you listen to the stretched out sound patterns it is easier to pick out and sort through multiple targets.
If you place a nickel and a dime side by side then sweep quickly it will sound like one object. If you sweep slow you will hear a difference as the coil passes over. The tone pattern will go from high to low, then low to high as you sweep from left to right. Definitely not a singular object.
There may be enough averaging to keep you from getting a "good" reading on either object, but you will know that there is more than one there.
Some odd shaped junk can also do this, so nothing is a sure bet. I would dig it .
I think that working slow helps get hits on very weak targets because a too fast sweep will make them appear as a little noise spike and be ignored. The sov needs to look at it long enough to decide that it really is an object.
HH
funkyoldude
New member
... and as usual, his comments are right on the button.
As you become more familiar with the Sov tones, you will discover that with some targets, "fringe" detecting helps nail the target id even better than the lock-on tone that the meter reads. As you approach the target with the tip of your coil, some targets will actually change pitch and timbre in a predictable way. Thus you can readily id the difference between an aluminum screw cap and a coin or silver ring that read the same on the meter. I think that the thickness or density of the target affects the conductivity as well, and the continuously variable VCO (Voltage Controlled Oscillator) that Art talks about, responds to even minute changes in conductivity close to the tip of the coil.
Just a humble opinion, since Minelab doesn't tell us how these circuits actually work.
fod
As you become more familiar with the Sov tones, you will discover that with some targets, "fringe" detecting helps nail the target id even better than the lock-on tone that the meter reads. As you approach the target with the tip of your coil, some targets will actually change pitch and timbre in a predictable way. Thus you can readily id the difference between an aluminum screw cap and a coin or silver ring that read the same on the meter. I think that the thickness or density of the target affects the conductivity as well, and the continuously variable VCO (Voltage Controlled Oscillator) that Art talks about, responds to even minute changes in conductivity close to the tip of the coil.
Just a humble opinion, since Minelab doesn't tell us how these circuits actually work.
fod
Art (NWOH)
New member
Isn't it interesting that they never mention anything about the audio????
Maybe they think that talking about one of the Sov's strongest points would scare the heck out of potential customers.
HH
Maybe they think that talking about one of the Sov's strongest points would scare the heck out of potential customers.
HH
Art (NWOH)
New member
My first experience when stepping up from a 3 tone beeper to the Sov was shocking, overwhelming, and very impressing all at the same time. THIS THING TALKS!!!!!!!
HH
HH
funkyoldude
New member
n/t
Thanks Rick,
I saw that Oak Grove post and it's impressive, congratulations.So it appears that the Sovereign is capable of unmasking fairly close targets because your getting the actual audio and not summation or averaging. I appreciate all the Meter info and i didn't know the SunRay was discontinued .You guys were very informative and helpful.Thanks so much. Bill
I saw that Oak Grove post and it's impressive, congratulations.So it appears that the Sovereign is capable of unmasking fairly close targets because your getting the actual audio and not summation or averaging. I appreciate all the Meter info and i didn't know the SunRay was discontinued .You guys were very informative and helpful.Thanks so much. Bill
Thanks Funkyoldude,
I appreciate the help,and have another question. When approaching with coil tip towards the target "fringe" as you say, do you just ease it up and do the little 1"or 2" wiggle and the variance in VCO tone at the coil tip is more precise tone ID and will that difference be reflected in the Meter reading or is the meter accuracy more dependant on the target being centered under the middle of the coil? Thanks for any input. HH Bill
I appreciate the help,and have another question. When approaching with coil tip towards the target "fringe" as you say, do you just ease it up and do the little 1"or 2" wiggle and the variance in VCO tone at the coil tip is more precise tone ID and will that difference be reflected in the Meter reading or is the meter accuracy more dependant on the target being centered under the middle of the coil? Thanks for any input. HH Bill
Art (NWOH)
New member
The idea of "sneaking up" on the target with the tip of the coil is to get a signal from only one object in a multiple object situation. If you center up the coil, you will pick up both (or more) objects that will be harder to seperate.
If you work your way around, you will have a better chance of identifying what is really there.
Try this.......
Place two or more different objects (coins,tabs, anything) close together on the table. Place a saucer upside down on the table. Start moving the saucer from side to side and slowly approach the objects. The saucer will bump one of them first.
Approach the objects from a different direction. The saucer will bump a different object first.
Now place the saucer over the objects. You can't tell what you bump.
Get the idea ??
HH
If you work your way around, you will have a better chance of identifying what is really there.
Try this.......
Place two or more different objects (coins,tabs, anything) close together on the table. Place a saucer upside down on the table. Start moving the saucer from side to side and slowly approach the objects. The saucer will bump one of them first.
Approach the objects from a different direction. The saucer will bump a different object first.
Now place the saucer over the objects. You can't tell what you bump.
Get the idea ??
HH
Art (NWOH)
New member
Something like a screwcap is a thin hollow shape that produces a "dirty" or harsh tone that is not smooth, consistent, and predictable like a coin. You gotta listen.
The currents that flow in these more 3 dimensional hollow objects are unpredictable and inconsistent than you would expect with a flat object. Hence, a crappy sound.
Old shotgun shells laying on their side will sound and read (on meter) about like a nickel, but sound "fuzzy" and the meter will be nearly in constant motion........not much inclanation to lock on .
Just some examples.
HH
The currents that flow in these more 3 dimensional hollow objects are unpredictable and inconsistent than you would expect with a flat object. Hence, a crappy sound.
Old shotgun shells laying on their side will sound and read (on meter) about like a nickel, but sound "fuzzy" and the meter will be nearly in constant motion........not much inclanation to lock on .
Just some examples.
HH
Thanks again ART,
I understand what you are saying about the "dirty" tone sound and found with some other detectors that a quick flick over the good sounding target will distort enough to help id good vs bad and it's always a judgement call but digging enough junk will help with the decision to dig or not.Talked to Ron @ Dixie and Sovereign should arrive early next week and the only problem now is the concrete hard ground around here along with heat.A testing i will go when the GT arrives. You guys are very knowledgeable and helpful.Thanks so much.HH Bill
I understand what you are saying about the "dirty" tone sound and found with some other detectors that a quick flick over the good sounding target will distort enough to help id good vs bad and it's always a judgement call but digging enough junk will help with the decision to dig or not.Talked to Ron @ Dixie and Sovereign should arrive early next week and the only problem now is the concrete hard ground around here along with heat.A testing i will go when the GT arrives. You guys are very knowledgeable and helpful.Thanks so much.HH Bill