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I have a coil question regarding the Minelab coils and the Sun Ray coils...
- Thread starter jbow
- Start date
Art (NWOH)
New member
All Sov coils have it. It's a recieved signal preamp.
The purpose is to boost the recieved signals up above noise that may be picked up in the cables.
Are you familiar with the preamps for TV antennas that mount on the antenna? Same principle.
HH
The purpose is to boost the recieved signals up above noise that may be picked up in the cables.
Are you familiar with the preamps for TV antennas that mount on the antenna? Same principle.
HH
It seem's unnecessary. I play electric guitar and in music there are cables and then there are cables. Some cables cost really big bucks. I mean really big...
I wonder if some of the super shielded oxygen free cables that are made for digital music would be a plus for a detector?
Stuff like this sor instance: http://www.lavacable.com/
What kind of cable run's from the coil to the box? Coaxial?
This might be worth upgrading.
Julien
I wonder if some of the super shielded oxygen free cables that are made for digital music would be a plus for a detector?
Stuff like this sor instance: http://www.lavacable.com/
What kind of cable run's from the coil to the box? Coaxial?
This might be worth upgrading.
Julien
Art (NWOH)
New member
What I meant by "all Sov coils" was just that.......ALL.......no matter who makes them.
If you removed the preamp from the coil, you would lose significant signal gain. Your depth would go to crap. The other alternative would be to put an extra preamp in the box instead, however this would do nothing to overcome signal degrading noise in the cables.
Sunray uses shielded cable in their coils. This seems to help cut outside noise pickup. They tend to be quieter.
Minelab coils and meters for the Sov use unshielded wire. The cables are quite long for hip or chest mounting applications. This gives noise more of an opportunity to get where you don't want it.
I did modify a Minelab meter that was so spastic in very noisy locations that it was nearly useless. Fabricated a cable of shielded coil wire (leftovers from shortening my S-12 cable) . Works as good now in heavy noise as it does out in the middle of nowhere.
Good shielded wire throughout would be a good idea. Anything that helps block cable cross talk and external noise can't hurt.
You run into just how much noise you can block. There are different kinds of noise.........
Electric, magnetic, and electro-magnetic. Electric and electro-magnetic can be blocked fairly well with common copper shielding.
Magnetic is a bear. Stainless steel shielding is needed to stop it.
You should see EMP hardened cable used in military aircraft. Shielded cable of shielded bundles of twisted wire pairs. Not fun to work with.
HH
If you removed the preamp from the coil, you would lose significant signal gain. Your depth would go to crap. The other alternative would be to put an extra preamp in the box instead, however this would do nothing to overcome signal degrading noise in the cables.
Sunray uses shielded cable in their coils. This seems to help cut outside noise pickup. They tend to be quieter.
Minelab coils and meters for the Sov use unshielded wire. The cables are quite long for hip or chest mounting applications. This gives noise more of an opportunity to get where you don't want it.
I did modify a Minelab meter that was so spastic in very noisy locations that it was nearly useless. Fabricated a cable of shielded coil wire (leftovers from shortening my S-12 cable) . Works as good now in heavy noise as it does out in the middle of nowhere.
Good shielded wire throughout would be a good idea. Anything that helps block cable cross talk and external noise can't hurt.
You run into just how much noise you can block. There are different kinds of noise.........
Electric, magnetic, and electro-magnetic. Electric and electro-magnetic can be blocked fairly well with common copper shielding.
Magnetic is a bear. Stainless steel shielding is needed to stop it.
You should see EMP hardened cable used in military aircraft. Shielded cable of shielded bundles of twisted wire pairs. Not fun to work with.
HH
Art (NWOH)
New member
Let me add a bit more here.......
Attempting to chop off the coil cable and splicing in some shielded stuff is asking for trouble. A splice is never as good at the original continuous conductor.
As a matter of practicality, you may not see enough difference in performance to justify such a mod. If your hunting is mostly limited to low noise areas, then it's not going to matter much how the cables are made.
There is also another matter.....noise gets in through the coil too. That's something you can't do anything about. It's recieved right along with the target responses.
HH
Attempting to chop off the coil cable and splicing in some shielded stuff is asking for trouble. A splice is never as good at the original continuous conductor.
As a matter of practicality, you may not see enough difference in performance to justify such a mod. If your hunting is mostly limited to low noise areas, then it's not going to matter much how the cables are made.
There is also another matter.....noise gets in through the coil too. That's something you can't do anything about. It's recieved right along with the target responses.
HH
It make's sense, what you say. I was not talking about splicing in shielded cable but having a full new cable made. I talked with Mark at Lava and he said that he could do it. At this time however I don't know enough about it to jump in there. It would be complete speculation on my part.
An S-12 coil appeared on my front porch this morning. I was thinking about the cable length thing too. Would it be a good idea to trim coil cables to better fit a detector? I was thinking about trimming the cables to the maximum shaft length plus 6", for the coil to the box, instead of having to wrap all this excess coil around the shaft. They make cable clips that go on microphone stands that would probably fit perfectly on a detector shaft and hold a coil cable in place. Mine are wrapped round and round the shaft and held in place by velcro cablle ties, at present.
Do you need any special tools to modify a cable length? Which end do you cut when you shorten it? The box end I would guess.
Thanks,
Julien
An S-12 coil appeared on my front porch this morning. I was thinking about the cable length thing too. Would it be a good idea to trim coil cables to better fit a detector? I was thinking about trimming the cables to the maximum shaft length plus 6", for the coil to the box, instead of having to wrap all this excess coil around the shaft. They make cable clips that go on microphone stands that would probably fit perfectly on a detector shaft and hold a coil cable in place. Mine are wrapped round and round the shaft and held in place by velcro cablle ties, at present.
Do you need any special tools to modify a cable length? Which end do you cut when you shorten it? The box end I would guess.
Thanks,
Julien
Art (NWOH)
New member
First.......
Your S-12 is already built with shielded coaxial wire. No need to replace. VOIDS WARRANTY.
Second........
There is NOT a connector on the coil end. The cable is molded right into the coil. Complete cable replacement is NOT possible without tearing into the coil itself.
Third.......
I made some problems for myself by shortening my S-12 cable (possibly by too much). Did not want to work right with one of my meters..would not calibrate. Do not know how much can be cut safely.
Fourth......
If you want to VOID your warranty, you can shorten your cable at the connector end (leaving adequate excess for a few turns around the shaft and enough in case you take the meter off), but you better be good at soldering and not mix up the connections.
HH
Your S-12 is already built with shielded coaxial wire. No need to replace. VOIDS WARRANTY.
Second........
There is NOT a connector on the coil end. The cable is molded right into the coil. Complete cable replacement is NOT possible without tearing into the coil itself.
Third.......
I made some problems for myself by shortening my S-12 cable (possibly by too much). Did not want to work right with one of my meters..would not calibrate. Do not know how much can be cut safely.
Fourth......
If you want to VOID your warranty, you can shorten your cable at the connector end (leaving adequate excess for a few turns around the shaft and enough in case you take the meter off), but you better be good at soldering and not mix up the connections.
HH
if I send it to you will you do it for me...
J/K...
I'm going to leave it alone, I was just wondering out loud. I really am glad I bought this S-12, bigger, deeper, lighter, mo betta...!!
I took it up on Brushy Mountain today, found a piece of iron but it was fun and I got some exercise. I got to the top and spyed a monument through the trees... scared the crap outta me, I hid my detector and strolled through the trees and brush over to it and was relieved that it did not say NPS. I have no idea who put it there but I suspect SCV. There was a nice concrete walkway with benchesn the monument noting the trenchline, and other markers... I was still a little shaken about it and left, checked my map book and it's not part of the park. I know people who detect there and it's known as a public place that's ok to go but that scared me a little...
The S-12 was just fine though... up and down the mtn.
J
J/K...
I'm going to leave it alone, I was just wondering out loud. I really am glad I bought this S-12, bigger, deeper, lighter, mo betta...!!
I took it up on Brushy Mountain today, found a piece of iron but it was fun and I got some exercise. I got to the top and spyed a monument through the trees... scared the crap outta me, I hid my detector and strolled through the trees and brush over to it and was relieved that it did not say NPS. I have no idea who put it there but I suspect SCV. There was a nice concrete walkway with benchesn the monument noting the trenchline, and other markers... I was still a little shaken about it and left, checked my map book and it's not part of the park. I know people who detect there and it's known as a public place that's ok to go but that scared me a little...
The S-12 was just fine though... up and down the mtn.
J
Art (NWOH)
New member
Glad you decided to leave it alone.
Something you need to watch about the S-12........
A really weak hit will just cause a threshold change with no target audio. This usually does not happen with minelab coils.
Never did find a threshold change with minelab or detech coils that was anything other than a noise spike.
Most of them really are an object with the S-12, unless you have the sensitivity a bit too high around noise. Wiggle the coil over the spot and most of the time the target audio will come up.
HH
Something you need to watch about the S-12........
A really weak hit will just cause a threshold change with no target audio. This usually does not happen with minelab coils.
Never did find a threshold change with minelab or detech coils that was anything other than a noise spike.
Most of them really are an object with the S-12, unless you have the sensitivity a bit too high around noise. Wiggle the coil over the spot and most of the time the target audio will come up.
HH
I took it out today to a site that borders Pickett's Mill Historic Site. It just about drove me nuts. It falses everytime I bump a dirt clod or a twig or anything and the threshold changes constantly if I bump something. On a construction site I can't help from bumping stuff. Now you tell me that it changes threshold on a weak hit... no wonder I didn't find anything. I finally put it in "all metal" maxed the sensitivity and ran it in silent... I still didn't find squat. I didn't even find much trash. Something is wrong...
What should I do in a site where I cannot help from bumping stuff? I bet I missed some hits because I started to ignore the threshold change because it was doing it so much due to the bumping...
I ordered a Tejon today too. I'm not giving up on the Soverign, just adding to the arsenal.
Thanks for the help...
J
What should I do in a site where I cannot help from bumping stuff? I bet I missed some hits because I started to ignore the threshold change because it was doing it so much due to the bumping...
I ordered a Tejon today too. I'm not giving up on the Soverign, just adding to the arsenal.
Thanks for the help...
J
Art (NWOH)
New member
Best suggestion is to stop bumping things. Been a while since I used the S-12. Now that you bring it up, I do seem to remember that it liked to false on a bump easier than my other coils.
Don't try to drag the ground with it. Lift as necessary to float over objects. You also learn to ignore falses that coincide with the feel of a bump in the rod, or the the visual impact between the coil and objects. Keep your eye on the coil.
Running in all metal with the threshold down and the sensitivity maxed out probably did more to screw up your hunting than it helped. I don't know your hunting location , just how far you turned the threshold down, or what maxing out your sensitivity may have done to the effectiveness of your hunting.
HH
Don't try to drag the ground with it. Lift as necessary to float over objects. You also learn to ignore falses that coincide with the feel of a bump in the rod, or the the visual impact between the coil and objects. Keep your eye on the coil.
Running in all metal with the threshold down and the sensitivity maxed out probably did more to screw up your hunting than it helped. I don't know your hunting location , just how far you turned the threshold down, or what maxing out your sensitivity may have done to the effectiveness of your hunting.
HH
Yeah... I didn't know what to do. This site has not been graded, just roots and stuff everywhere, almost impossible to not bump stuff but I am going to give another try with your info. Then again... this place may be best hunted with the 10" Tornado coil... or the Tejon. You are a help and I thank you!
Julien
Julien