I find it very odd that people buy Excaliburs and then do all these mods on them...

[beachdude]

I am currently a White's water machine user but I looking into eventually trying out an Excalibur. I find it totally odd that hunters are buying these machines and then modifying them with their own fixes, sometimes voiding the warranties in the process. It seems to me that a lot of the mods are common, like knob protectors and headphone improvements.

I am curious as to why Minelab doesn't implement these common customer improvements into the design of the product. Is there some reason they are not doing it?

 

[Critterhunter]

Well, Minelab is light years head in technology, but unfortunately they seem to take the long way around the track when they design their hardware to be user friendly for all their machines. Our their machines built like tanks to take a lot of punishment? Yep, in particular the Excalibur and the Sovereign. Unfortunately, this is overkill for most people and probably stems from Minelabs origins in mine detectors and such IMO.

For instance, while the GT is well balanced (most of them come with straight shafts), they are still hefty machines. A large part of that bulk is due to the heavy fiberglass lower rod and the heavy gauge aluminum upper rod. The arm cup, also, for instance weighs half a pound!

The Excalibur POD is a solid design and is very functional and sleek for low drag in the water. Same deal with the Sovereign control box. Not overly heavy and well laid out. But the shafts...That is the problem.

Before getting to that though, another illistration of the lack of user friendly hardware in some respects is the Sovereign doesn't have a remote pin point switch, so many have modded their Sovereigns to plug in a remote pin point switch on the grip. But, not really an issue, as many also just pin point in discriminate and actually prefer to. Although I have wired a remote PP for my GT, I hardly ever use it and prefer PPing in discriminate as then I know I'm not getting dragged off target by iron, and I've had PP sound off in some cases over a wide area due to microscopic iron in the ground I suspect. PPing in discriminate is just as accurate so most don't find it an issue or bother with reaching down on the face plate to flip to PP when figuring out where to dig a target.

The meter on the Sovereign is another example. The stock Minelab meters are low profile, so mounted on the straight shaft it's down the shaft behind the grip making it hard to see. The "S" shafts of older Sovereigns or some GTs that came with an S shaft would no cause the problem, because there is no grip directly in front of the meter. And, many aftermarket meters or say Ron's meter stand up so the grip on a straight shaft won't block it's view if the meter is mounted down the shaft. Many of us though prefer to mount our meters on top of our grips like many other detectors are set up.

Those are just a few of the examples. For me on my GT, I used a Whites lower carbon tall man rod, a lighter gauge upper aluminum rod, a much lighter Whites arm cup, a hollow aluminum bike end bar with a rubber cover for my grip, and also run a 3 cell lipo in my GT so I don't need to use 8AAs or the heavy 10 cell minelab stock rechargeable pack. By doing all these mods I dropped about a pound and a half off my GT and it's even more well balanced now. As light or lighter than any Whites I've owned.

Onto the Excalibur...The stock shaft is an S shaft. it's also short. Even with neutral bouency in the water the posture to use that shaft is not very friendly for long hunts. So many guys opt to either build or buy straight shafts for it. Many also either mount the pod on an extension high behind the shaft so as to not only balance the shaft better, but also to keep the pod out of the water until you are at your very deepest point, which means less drag until you get very deep. Not only that, but mounting it back there makes for easier reach of the controls in some respects. Some Sovereign users even using the stock shaft (like you can also do with the Excal) will buy or make an extension to put the control box well behind the elbow. Then still yet some Excalibur and Sovereign guys will hip or chest mount their control box or pod.

So yes, many prefer to build or buy custom shafts in various configurations for their Sovereigns or Excals. The technology in the electronics is very advanced, but unfortunately the shafts leave are heavy. The GT's straight shaft is fairly well balanced, but just the same a good deal of weight can be dropped by buying or building a custom shaft. For the Excalibur, weight may not be so much of an issue in the water, but the ergonomics of that short "S" shaft on that thing leaves much to be desired.

So now you know the bad. But the good is the technology on the BBS and FBS machines is like it came from another planet. And here's another good thing in many respects...These detectors (the Excal and Sovereign) are probably easily the most customized by users on the market. They make it very "fun" in ways to build a machine that suits you. You can't say that with a lot of detectors. Somebody once said on this forum that the Sovereign and Excalibur were like custom hot rods that you could build or customize any way you desired. They already heavy the horsepower under the hood beyond jaw dropping belief to "win a lot of races". You just have to do a little body work and give it that special paint job that makes it "yours".

PS- Most Excalibur guys won't mod the headphones or anything else until the warranty runs out. About the only thing you could probably get away with is putting it on a custom shaft, because you could always throw it back on the stock shaft if it needed warranty work. The headphone mods, coil changes, waterproof coil/headphone plugs, etc...All that should wait until after the warranty has expired.

 

[deepdiger60]

Beachdude if someone was able to modify there machine Excal or Sov GT to proform better and you last that extra hour on the beach swinging or swimming the coil and you hit this ..... see pic you can buy 4 Excals and 1 Sov GT Jim

 

[OldBeechnut]

I am curious as to why Minelab doesn't implement these common customer improvements into the design of the product. Is there some reason they are not doing it?

On the excalibur, The excalibur is the basic WP killer detector, if they started adding onto it, this would add to the things that may have issues down the road, costing them more money both ways. And the way they look at it, it is one of the best selling WP detectors out there now, why change...guess you would say, it's about the cost to them.

Like critter said. 99% wait till the expired warranty.
Reasons, we change them, it's the hotrod in us...faster, better performance........and trying to stay ahead of the competition.......

 

[Tin Fin]

Beachdude,

Not only the hot rod in us - but some of that.

There are a lot of other things that people modify right after buying them. I trap fur in the winter most years, and when I buy new traps, I always work through them one-by-one, to make sure they work they way I want them to, so the pan sits a certain way, take the burrs off, make adjustments, add anchoring methods, or take off anchoring methods I don't like. Some of this is me getting familiar with that particular tool, the finer points of how this model works. Some of it is that the basic design is fine, and it can be used that way, but I can also make some minor changes that will make it faster, smoother, or more suited to my particular needs/uses.

The OOBE (Out Of Box Experience) isn't always the best experience, but it can often be a starting point for individual approaches to a particular thing. For some, OOBE is the way to go.

For the GT, one of the best first-changes I made was to put a wire protector onto the lower portion of the coil wire. In the forests that I MD in, the wire sheathing would be ripped to shreds in short order if I didn't do something to protect it. Going with the LiPo batteries stunned me in how long they last, and they are much lighter than the stock set up. For the Excal, my hearing is damaged from being a steel fabricator (and a rock'n roll party freak in the day), so I need to make changes in the headphone area with something that works for my particular hearing problems. It's not as simple as "unplug one set of headphones and plug in a different set" all the time.

So, knowing what mods can be done on your own, or what someone else can do for you, can make a difference that helps find more, or make for more hours in the field, finding more.

It's a good question you posed though.

 

[deepdiger60]

Tin Fin that is a good idea with the wire protector what do you use ? i hunt a lot of woods . Thanks Jim

 

[Tin Fin]

Deepdigger,

I just us 3/8" spiral cable wrap from the "shack" - you can also get corrugated that has a split down the side. That is probably a bit tougher, but this works fine. If the spirals snag things, just wrap the cable wrap with electrical tape. Then there's nothing that can get caught in the spiral itself.

 

[dewcon4414]

ML likes its price point and its top of the line position.... why invest a dime? Hows that make you feel? But we still know quality and have to have one, why? because they pay for them selves quickly.

Dew

 

[tvr]

Minelab delivers the Sovereign GT with a very functional straight shaft where they used to deliver the Sovereign with the S shaft. Boggles my mind that they don't deliver the Excalibur with a functional straight shaft with good balance instead of the poorly balanced S shaft set up that is standard. That significant improvement would do little if anything to the price point.

Other mods can be like hot rodding it. I've seen some White's hot rodding too. The ground balance mod and careful tuning Mr. Bill did on a couple of SL and IDX models and the special tuning on the pre-dual field water proof PI's come to mind.

When you understand what you are doing and the implications and know you can get better results, why not?
Cheers,
tvr

 

[beachdude]

OK then. If I bought an Excalibur, it sound like I need a straight rod. Since I travel everywhere on my bicycle, It would need to break down small. I have an Anderson travel rod for my Dual Field and it breaks down small enough. I think they also make one for the Excalibur.

What I find weird is that there are 2 pods (battery and detector). Critterhunter was saying something about mounting the battery pod behind the the control pod, as opposed to underneath it? At least I think that is what he was saying...

 

[stumppass]

Minelab markets this machine as a beach / diving tool and most of the common MOD's aren't compatible with underwater work (deep diving).

This machine is perfectly engineered for diving and just happens to work very well on the beach. Minelab needs to pony up and make a real BEACH MACHINE and set the excal aside for the hardcore commercial divers where it belongs!
My 2 cents!

SP

 

[dewcon4414]

Most of us mount it behind the elbow side by side if we rod mount. There are some great mods, but like SP said it is a diving machine that would have to be pressure tested. Id also love to see ML make it better suited to beach hunting with some of the great mods.

Dew

 

[Critterhunter]

Minelab delivers the Sovereign GT with a very functional straight shaft where they used to deliver the Sovereign with the S shaft. Boggles my mind that they don't deliver the Excalibur with a functional straight shaft with good balance instead of the poorly balanced S shaft set up that is standard. That significant improvement would do little if anything to the price point.
tvr

I agree. Putting a straight shaft on the Excal would do nothing to the price, unless they've already built a billion of those S shafts and want to use all that stock up before converting to a straight shaft for it stock. In fact, if Minelab would drop some weight on the GT and Excal by using a lighter grade of aluminum it would do much to drop some weight, and not only that but save them some money in raw materials. Got to be cheaper to buy a lighter gauge aluminum tubing I would think.

My upper shaft on my custom land rig uses a much lighter gauge of aluminum and it's still rigid as can be. For my lower shaft I used a Whites tall man carbon fiber rod. Not only were these only $10 compared to more for the heavy fiberglass Minelab lower rod, but the Whites tall man carbon lower rod is also probably twice as long, so I was able to shorten my upper replacement aluminum shaft to add to even more weight savings.

For the Excal, don't know if going to as light as a guage of aluminum as I did would be a wise idea for drag in the water due to more stress, but then again I have used my land rig in the water and no issues, and back when I was even swinging the 15x12 with all it's drag. The Whites tall man lower carbon fiber rod might be pushing it for water use too, but once again no issues even with the big 15x12 dragging around with it. That was prior to me building my own water rig, which in reality is just the stock Minelab straight shaft because it's ultra sturdy and no issues with weight in the water. It also uses the Minelab arm cup.

Happy with that stock shaft for water hunting, but didn't care for it on land compared to my custom light weight build for sure. I did replace the Minelab grip on my water rid with an aluminum bike end bar like I did with my land rig. I love those things. Ultra comfortable compared to that stock grip, and you can pick and choose some very nice rubber or gel grips to cover them at just about any bicycle shop.

The bike end bars I used had a slight curve to them. One curves slightly right and one left, but the hand part where your grip would be is pretty much straight, as they start to curve more towers the top, and in fact by using one that curves slightly left being right handed it puts your hand in a slightly more natural position which I like for less fatigue.

Oh, and the stock grip has foam covering it, which I hated because it held water. With these rubber or gel grips no such issues with that.

Only other mod I did to the stock shaft (besides the grip) for water use was to drill two holes right above the coil insert mount that goes up inside the shaft, so that all the water drains out when I leave the water. Just had to stick a measuring tape down the lower shaft to figure out where that plastic inside the shaft ends so I could drill just a tiny bit above it so all water possible drains out.

The Whites arm cup for my land rig is MUCH lighter than the Minelab stock one and was only $10 if I remember right just like the carbon tall man lower shaft directly from Whites. Can't beat that. Much cheaper than the parts from Minelab.

Only string attached is the Whites lower rod is not as wide as the Minelab coil mount, so I had to run up to a home improvement store and find rubber faucet washers that matched the ring they ride in on the Whites shaft. I needed to use two on both sides of the Whites rod mount to make up the gap to the wider Minelab coil ears. Just drilled the washers out to match the size of the nylon bolt, then I glued the washers together in pairs so they'd be easy to get in place when putting a coil on without having issues with lining the holes all up to run the bolt through. Works like a charm.

If anybody is building a custom rod for their Sovereign, on the Elite and GT they use a box clip, unlike the older Sovereigns that used the V-clip the Minelab meters also use to mount. For the older Sovereigns you'd just drill out the rivets for the V-clip and then screw the clips onto the new shaft you built. Easy as pie.

For the Elite/GT, take the box clip and drill out the two rivets in it. The clip comes apart and you don't need the one piece that used to be grabbed by the Minelab arm cup to hold it to the shaft. Take the box clip part and just screw it onto your new shaft with some flat head screws, or rivet it if you have a rivet gun. If I remember right, the back rivet matches a hole on the bottom of the Whites arm cup, or maybe I drilled a hole in the Whites arm cup to match where the rivet hole was on the box clip.

Either way, then when you rivet or screw the clip/arm cup on one rivet/screw will do the job to both hold the back part of the box clip and also the Whites arm cup on at the same time. Then put your other rivet/screw in the other hole on the box clip and you're done. The Whites arm cup didn't need any more securing than that one rivet/screw, as the Whites arm cup hugs the shaft really good. I've beat the heck out of that shaft in the woods and even fell on it a few times and the arm cup and clip are still snug as a bug.

You can always re-rivet the two pices of the box clip back together to put on the stock shaft for re-sale. Everything can be reverse enginered with the Minelab stock shaft parts to put it back stock for resale value. I wanted to do it that way.

Same deal with the V-clip I pulled of the stock shaft to mount on top of the bike end bar grip so my meter could ride on top of the grip. Somebody a while back tipped me off to using a copper pipe hanger from Homedepot for like $2 to do that. You just cut down the strap to the length you only need, secure the V-clip to the shortened strap (I used two flat head screws that would clear the meter sliding on), and now you are set to jet! So much nicer to have the meter on top of the grip.

With Ron's meter you can also mount it on the grip and I think he is using a pipe hanger so you probably can just bend it so the meter is upright on the grip. But then again his meter stands up high, so no need to mount it on the grip as you can see it in the stock location on the shaft. That's where I stuck his on mine and it's just easy and fine to see there, unlike the Minelab meters which lay low on the shaft.

 

[Critterhunter]

OK then. If I bought an Excalibur, it sound like I need a straight rod. Since I travel everywhere on my bicycle, It would need to break down small. I have an Anderson travel rod for my Dual Field and it breaks down small enough. I think they also make one for the Excalibur.

What I find weird is that there are 2 pods (battery and detector). Critterhunter was saying something about mounting the battery pod behind the the control pod, as opposed to underneath it? At least I think that is what he was saying...

Look in the Excalibur Accessories sticky at the top of the forum. Bunch of photos of both Anderson and Plugger straight shafts for the Excal sold by Findmall sponsors. There are 2 piece and 3 piece travel rods for it just like sounds like you are looking for. I posted a bunch of pics of various rods from them in that sticky, but if you click on a few of the Findmall sponsor links also posted in there (such as Kellyco or Indian Nation Detectors) there might be more shafts to view from them that I overlooked posting pics for.

Far as the "2 pods". No I was talking about the main control pod for the Excal. Some people mount it under the shaft, some over, some to the right side to it doesn't bump your hip, and so on. Many like to either put a shaft extension (you can make them or buy them, and they are in the sticky) on the back of the stock shaft or even a custom shaft to mount the pod way up above your elbow or even as high as above your shoulder, so that the pod stays out of the water for less drag until you are as deep as your neck maybe. Or, they also sell shafts that are extra long for this reason so no need to put an extension on it. If you are under warranty then you've got two options- but or make an extension for the stock shaft stock shaft to mount the pod back there, or put the Excal on a longer aftermarket or homemade shaft. Some also say the controls are easier to reach up behind your elbow or shoulder, as you can either reach right at it or even bring the shaft tipped forward over your shoulder or past your arm to play with the controls. If I had an Excal I'd for sure build a straight shaft for it, and I'd also have the pod above my shoulder for less water resistance.

Many pics and threads on this stuff in the Excalibur Accessories sticky, so follow some links and read away, because there are some excellent threads with some great ideas from various Excalibur users. I myself would not hip or chest mount the Excalibur control pod. Over time regardless of how careful you are with looping the coil cable to relieve stress I just think there is too much of a chance to develop a short IMO, but I know others feel different. Only reason why I chest mount my GT when water hunting is because I have no other choice.

Been thinking about building a waterproof box for the GT control box to go into, and then mounting that box on an extension above my shoulder on the shaft to the bulky thing isn't causing drag in the water. I think that might be a killer idea. And the control box could still come out in seconds for throwing back on my land rig. Since the 10" tornado stays on my water rig, I could commit it to the waterproof box via either sealing the coil cable hole with Shoe Goo or using waterproof cable connectors. Same deal with the headphones I would commit to the project.

Seems like the perfect solution for a low cost way to have an Excalibur. In fact, sometimes you see old Sovereign control boxes alone for sale for like $40 or $50. If you've already got say a 12x10 and so the 10" Tornado is never used, seems like a great way to build a very cheap water machine. Some day I'm going to get around to doing that. Chest mounting a waterproof housing for the GT control box would be bulky and try to float and drag, that's why I think sticking it high on the end of a long shaft or shaft extension would be the perfect solution.

 

[Critterhunter]

Forgot to add...Many options for building a home made shaft for the Sovereign or Excal. Some uses aluminum upper rods and then carbon or fiberglass lower rods. Some use carbon lower rods, and still yet some guys even make the entire shafts out of carbon Fiber. The prices are fairly cheap if you know where to look for carbon fiber tubing. Even seen one Excal guy make his shaft, or at least maybe the lower shaft, from PVC, though I'd have to figure that would flex too much, and any flex or slop in a water shaft will quickly work looser.

One guy even uses a fiberglass garden tool rod you can get at home improvement stores. I remember him saying it was very stiff and I think could be bought blank without a tool on it. A single rod with no need for two parts, so no risk of slop between them. For custom water shafts, very important if they are two piece designed that there is no slop where the two rods connect together. Some like the Plugger cam locks that use a bolt and are said to really snug it up good where the two rods join.

For my custom land shaft the lower whites carbon tall man rod and my lighter gauge aluminum upper shaft (cut from an Unger window cleaning extension pole using the inner aluminum extension that slides out) are very snug, so even just using the normal two headed adjustment snap pin that most detectors use I didn't see a need for a cam lock of any sort. Which reminds me, the Unger window cleaning pole (found at most home improvement stores for about $20 and is professional grade) also has a two headed snap pin on it where the mop head or other window cleaning tools sit on top of the shaft on that plastic mount thing. That snap pin that secures that plastic to the pole is just like detectors use, so I used that snap pin for my custom land rig build. Can't beat that.

But for the stock GT straight shaft for my water rig, here's a handy tip for that shaft even if you don't intend to water hunt with it...Minelab is using a two headed adjustment shaft height snap pin for the two shafts to lock in place, but Minelab only drilled out holes on one side of the shafts, so the other pin head has no way to snap out the other side. I drilled the hole all the way out the other side on both shafts, and let me tell you that took a TON of slop out of it.

The plastic cam lock most detectors and the Minelab shaft has is worthless IMO. They never take out slop well on all the detectors I've ever owned. By drilling out the shaft's other side for the other head on the snap adjustment pin you'll be shocked how it stiffens things up. Just be sure to only drill just big enough of a hole for the head of that pin, and also straight as an arrow. Otherwise you'll never get it to snap out when aligned with the other head on the other side of the shaft, or if you have to drill it bigger to make it fit now you've lost the ability to take as much slop as you could out of it.

I'm not sure how well the Minelab snap pin will hold up to salt water, so if it isn't the right type of metal then I'd get Pluggers bolt system, just use your own bolt through both shafts, or find a snap pin that is made from a metal that won't rot. In fresh water my stock Minelab shaft's snap pin has shown no signs of corrosion thus far. I suspect the Unger (Or Etore works too, but I think their window cleaning poles use a heavier gauge aluminum, which might be better for water use) snap pin is a metal that won't rot, because obviously these poles are subjected to water and cleaning solutions all the time with mop heads and such. I know both the pole and the snap pin on the Unger I used for years cleaning windows in a business I used to run never showed any signs of rot or corrosion. Not sure but there might be certain grades of aluminum that are less prone to corrosion from the outside elements maybe. A more pure metal maybe?

 

[rl48off]

Buy a Harley Davidson......then you will understand

 

[dewcon4414]

I can tell you from my experience with having the pods way back on the shaft .... its great if you want good balance on the sand with an extended rod for long sweeps, but in the water it can create a lot more coil float and in current its a pain. Its just something that takes a little playing with to find the right set up for you. Coil size also comes into play especially if you do a mod for a larger coil. Some of the guys have some great mods...... necessity really is the mother of invention.

Dew