I'm electronically challenged and my opinions are always based on my own personal experiences as opposed to what I read. I don't build them I just use them. I'm not sure exactly how BBS technology works. I've seen arguments saying Minelabs description is hype when it comes to how many frequencies are being transmitted and how it uses or interprets those signals. Something that seems to be tied directly to the depth I've been getting in high mineralized ground is how it handles hot rocks. I've noticed that how it compensates for ground minerals in discriminate mode is nothing like auto ground tracking on some standard VLF detectors where the all metal and discriminate mode are tied together. Personally I really don't care how it works as long as it works and it does work. The technology is different from any standard VLF detector I've ever used. One unique feature is in the way it handles hot/cold rocks which I have an abundance of in my area on land and on our beaches. These rocks are either higher or lower in mineral content than the surrounding ground and many detectors will see them as a possible good target and respond in the discriminate mode. On standard VLF detectors how the detectors responds to these rocks are based on the discrimination range. On some detectors like the Whites XL Pro, XLT or DFX with the expanded discrimination range you are given an option to use discrimination to knock these out. Many detectors with a narrower discrimination range will treat them like any other discriminated target with a partial response like falsing. I noticed when hunting gravel type rocky beaches the sovereign doesn't null or false over these hot rocks when using a proper sweep speed. It's not discriminating these rocks but is compensating for them just like Minelab describes in how the BBS technology compensates for ground minerals in discriminate mode so regardless of how many frequencies it uses this is would explain why they get the depth they do in my bad ground. So Minelabs claims might be closer to the truth than the naysayers claims. A bit long winded but this is how I see it and I'm sticking to it.
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
I don't think BBS is BS.
- Thread starter crazyman
- Start date
OK but whats your point? Is this something to ponder on a cold winter's night or something anyone that use's a MineLab detector
needs to study? I own and use four of there best detectors some with BBS and some with out and they all work like they are
suppose to. So at this time why would I or anyone else sit and ponder WHY they work? Kind of like the chicken and the egg.
Maybe all detector's should be made that way; maybe none should be made that way, where is this line of thought going?
Draw up a cup of your favorite brew, plop down in your most favorite chair and think REALLY HARD on this subject and see
if there is something there you have over looked ( or maybe that MineLab has over looked ). Fill us in when you have it all thought out
and can tell us for sure WHATS THE POINT!
needs to study? I own and use four of there best detectors some with BBS and some with out and they all work like they are
suppose to. So at this time why would I or anyone else sit and ponder WHY they work? Kind of like the chicken and the egg.
Maybe all detector's should be made that way; maybe none should be made that way, where is this line of thought going?
Draw up a cup of your favorite brew, plop down in your most favorite chair and think REALLY HARD on this subject and see
if there is something there you have over looked ( or maybe that MineLab has over looked ). Fill us in when you have it all thought out
and can tell us for sure WHATS THE POINT!
No point other than what I said. No reason to ponder it further. My mistake. I see you did not understand the meaning of my post so I will try to be a bit more simple for the simple minded folk like yourself in the future. Do I need to describe the point of this post? No I bet you got this one.
You are correct sir ,that I failed to see the point you are trying to make trying to compare BBS technology and BS. Are you sure
you understand the difference? For someone who by his own words is electronically challenged you seem to be quick to take
offence at someone trying to find your point ( if indeed there is one ). Here I thought we were going to have an on going dialogue
about the finer points of detector X compared to detector y compared to MineLab BBS technology; none of which either one of us is formally
trained in or qualified to make a factual statement about. Alas; such is the fate of are chair expert's and there ego's.
you understand the difference? For someone who by his own words is electronically challenged you seem to be quick to take
offence at someone trying to find your point ( if indeed there is one ). Here I thought we were going to have an on going dialogue
about the finer points of detector X compared to detector y compared to MineLab BBS technology; none of which either one of us is formally
trained in or qualified to make a factual statement about. Alas; such is the fate of are chair expert's and there ego's.
I'm not sure what brought that on. I thought it was self explanatory in that I was explaining that coming from using single frequency detectors for so long I am starting to finally understand how multi-frequency works and what the Sovereign is doing in bad ground to achieve the depth I've been getting. Just saying I think it works just as Minelab described and it works well. Never thought the post would ruffle any feathers but after 30 years as a Sea Captain I'm game if he his.
Surely you can't be that thick. That's what I was doing. I was saying that Minelabs muli-frequency technology performs better than single frequency detectors in my bad ground. I was comparing how single frequency detectors compare to Minelabs multi-frequency technology in how they handle ground mineralization differently. Do I need crayons to make you understand?
There is a lot of text both on forums here and in other venues that try to explain with equations and simpler verbal analogies why the advertising claims of one technology or another are hype. Sometimes hard to figure out what the biases are, where they slant from and how to really interpret.
Crazyman has been a whites user for some time and through posts on set ups and observations helped me quickly get good results when I decided to add a whites to the tool set earlier this year. I have found him to be an observant detectorist who gets results, is helpful, and doesn't appear to lay on a lot of bias.
I, for one, enjoy seeing the transformation to and discovery process of adapting and thriving with a different design. I appreciate the observations of how the BBS is performing for him as compaired to his observations, over time, of successes with other detectors.
If you don't see the discovery process ... well 'nuff said.
tvr
Crazyman has been a whites user for some time and through posts on set ups and observations helped me quickly get good results when I decided to add a whites to the tool set earlier this year. I have found him to be an observant detectorist who gets results, is helpful, and doesn't appear to lay on a lot of bias.
I, for one, enjoy seeing the transformation to and discovery process of adapting and thriving with a different design. I appreciate the observations of how the BBS is performing for him as compaired to his observations, over time, of successes with other detectors.
If you don't see the discovery process ... well 'nuff said.
tvr
Crazyman...I hear ya about the hot rocks. I have a few detectors that bang real hard on them and I cannot hunt with them on some beaches due to me digging every 2 seconds and finding one. There are a few units with manual GB where I can take a hot rock and GB it out while some others don't work at all.
The Minelabs don't hit on the hot rocks....I think THATS THE POINT ( that and what is in the subject line).
Glad to hear the Minelabs work for you and you are doing well with them.
The Minelabs don't hit on the hot rocks....I think THATS THE POINT ( that and what is in the subject line).
Glad to hear the Minelabs work for you and you are doing well with them.
Thanks tvr. I've never been a big yacker on the forums. I'm actually a bit introverted in real life and don't like chit-chatting. If I can help someone with a detector question based on my experience with that detector I will and always have. I've been helped by many people through the years with my own questions and learned a lot of new things that way. I've been yacking more than normal on this site because I'm like a babe learning all over again since picking up the Sovereign. It's not enough just to use it I need to understand how and why it works as well. If I learn something new while using the detector that I haven't seen before on the forum I will comment on it see see if others have observed the same thing. That's how I learn.
That was the difference I was trying to explain here. With every VLF detector I've ever used you either have to ground balance them out or discriminate them out. Both of those methods have their own problems. The BBS technology doesn't do it that way. It just compensates and ignores them. That in itself makes this detector worth having in my neck of the woods. The same technology seems to be compensating and ignoring a large portion of ground minerals as well with the proper sensitivity setting and sweep speed. You know me and I don't get excited over most things but this detector has some nice features that I find very useful.
Crazyman,
I think one of the main things I have learned over the years reading the forums is that certain metal detectors work better than others in different applications. Brand X may be great in Mild Ground Town USA, but does not work at all in Hot Rock City.
It all depends on where you are, what type of hunting you are doing and what metal detector YOU like best. I have a lot of detectors, and I know there are times where I may be using one that I know may not work as well as another I have, but I just like that one better at that point in time. May sound funny, but if I do not feel comfortable swinging the detector, and I don't feel confident using it, it does not matter if it's the best one for that particular hunt...I just won't use it.
I sold my Excal because it was just too heavy. I had it on a straight shaft, I hip mounted, etc., but I never really got comfortable using it. I don't think it was realistic to try to keep using it, even if it was one of the best beach detectors, when I kept getting tired and frustrated because of the weight.
My point is, which substantiates yours to a degree, is that one has to use a detector that is most applicable to ALL conditions...not just the ground conditions.
I always think of a post Monte wrote a while back, where he stated his reasoning why he uses a smaller coil on a particular detector when hunting in a park. The total 'feel' of the detector, how confident he is when using it, in addition to it's performance, factored into his decision. I agree 100% with that concept.
JC
I think one of the main things I have learned over the years reading the forums is that certain metal detectors work better than others in different applications. Brand X may be great in Mild Ground Town USA, but does not work at all in Hot Rock City.
It all depends on where you are, what type of hunting you are doing and what metal detector YOU like best. I have a lot of detectors, and I know there are times where I may be using one that I know may not work as well as another I have, but I just like that one better at that point in time. May sound funny, but if I do not feel comfortable swinging the detector, and I don't feel confident using it, it does not matter if it's the best one for that particular hunt...I just won't use it.
I sold my Excal because it was just too heavy. I had it on a straight shaft, I hip mounted, etc., but I never really got comfortable using it. I don't think it was realistic to try to keep using it, even if it was one of the best beach detectors, when I kept getting tired and frustrated because of the weight.
My point is, which substantiates yours to a degree, is that one has to use a detector that is most applicable to ALL conditions...not just the ground conditions.
I always think of a post Monte wrote a while back, where he stated his reasoning why he uses a smaller coil on a particular detector when hunting in a park. The total 'feel' of the detector, how confident he is when using it, in addition to it's performance, factored into his decision. I agree 100% with that concept.
JC
Nauti
Well-known member
Hi crazyman,Neil from England here.I used to own a sovereign a while ago but sold it and have regretted it ever since.However after reading your posts and your enthusiasm for the machine i have now ordered another and can't wait to start using it again.As for your posts all i can say is that i know exactly where you're coming from.....minelabs multi frequency technology WILL cope with high mineralisation better than most other machines.I have used this machine on the beach(wet sand,black sand) and in some highly mineralised soil conditions over here and i can say in all honesty that it will outperform most machines in these types of conditions.There have also been many tests carried out over here by independent,unbiased enthusiasts to back up what you are saying.The tests they carried out involved burying coins in a patch of highly mineralised soil at differing depths and left for around 2 years.....i assume to let the ground settle.Then anybody who owned a metal detector could go and use the testbed to see how their particular detector performed.A record was then kept of all the detectors that were used.....and there were many different types.....and results noted.From the table of results it is clear that minelabs multi frequency technology was able to detect a lot more of the targets at greater depths than other machines in soil with high mineralisation.After reading this i have set up a small test bed in my own back yard in some pretty awful soil.I have buried a number of small silver hammered coins at various depths and i have ran one of my detectors over the testbed and noted the results.The detector i used could pick up a hammered penny at 7 inches in air but in the contaminated soil this dropped off to a disappointing 4 inches.Targets over this depth were only giving a very broken signal.Once i have the sovereign i will test it on the same testbed and share the results if anybody is interested.....and it will be an honest result that is posted.Anyway crazyman keep the posts coming,most of us find them of interest and helpful as well.
the POINT is,that crazyman is sharing his observations and ideas with people who want to read them,,,they are for the benefit of everybody on the forum and i for one appreciate him spending the time to pass on this information to the rest of us,,now you dont need to agree with it,,and its obvious that you dont agree or disagree,,i think you just needed to sound off for some reason or other,, which was in itself totally POINTLESS,,comcat
Thanks Neil. This seems to be more of a question and answer forum as opposed to a discussion forum where you share discoveries or information without being asked. I'm still learning and gleaning all the info I can so I'm surely not trying to knock the Sovereign gurus off their throne. Just sharing what I've found so far. There doesn't always have to be a point even though the point of the original post was that in mineralized soil with an abundance of hot rocks like I have here in the middle of "Volcano Alley" the Sovereign gets excellent depth. If someone is considering a Sovereign and lives in an area of mild to moderate mineralization a post such as mine might not be as helpful in his decision as the same person that has very bad ground similar to mine. Sometimes these posts based on personal experience can be helpful and I can tell you I have actually read all 150 pages of past posts and every reply on the Sovereign that are available here while learning the Sovereign so far..
What you are seeing with the Sovereign is what many of us have said for years that spent the time to learn it and fully understand it. Some find ways it works better for them in their areas and like to post what they are seeing which help us all. By reading these helps us all to maybe try other ways. Our mineralization isn't real bad and yet the only detectors we have seen that can come close or beat it is the Explorers and the E-Trac while some the jury is still out if it can beat it. Lot of this is depends on how well you know your detector too, but the Sovereigns are tough to beat as you are seeing Crazyman.Myself I enjoy reading your info you are seeing with the Sovereigns as I was there one time too posting like you are and some people were giving me a hard time too, but most have moved on while I am still here, wonder if it is because they didn't spend the time to understand the Sovereign.
One I remember was auto versus manual sensitivity where some were saying there was no difference as it didn't seem to change the depth of detection. That is true for those new to detecting with the Sovereigns, but those that know it well will see there is quite a difference between auto and manual which many seen after they got to know their Sovereigns.
Keep posting what you are seeing about your Sovereign as it brings back memories many of us have went though that stuck with the Sovereigns and paid the dues of learning it, but be prepared for those that didn't have the patience to keep and learn their Sovereigns.
Great to see you are getting to really know your Sovereign and what it can do.
Rick
One I remember was auto versus manual sensitivity where some were saying there was no difference as it didn't seem to change the depth of detection. That is true for those new to detecting with the Sovereigns, but those that know it well will see there is quite a difference between auto and manual which many seen after they got to know their Sovereigns.
Keep posting what you are seeing about your Sovereign as it brings back memories many of us have went though that stuck with the Sovereigns and paid the dues of learning it, but be prepared for those that didn't have the patience to keep and learn their Sovereigns.
Great to see you are getting to really know your Sovereign and what it can do.
Rick
crazyman said:
Holy Toledo!
I felt like I was overdoing it because I went back to the beginning of the 2009 Sovereign postings. But I only read the posts that looked informative on the abilities and operation of the Sovereign. You are either crazy 
or to be commended. 
If you would be kind enough to summarize everything you read in a few short sentences, you would save me a grundle.
Rich (Utah)