Hypothetical Sov situation...

[Ray Hogan]

Okay, you're on an old site with potential for deep silver. You're sloooowwly covering ground when suddenly you hear a faint, somewhat mid-like tone with the Sov, that is repeatable. You carefully center the target...and the tone is trying to climb. You dig out a six-inch deep and six-diameter plug. Recheck the target and you no longer get a signal with the coil...check it with the S-1 probe and still no signal...and nothing in the plug you cut out. What do you do next? I would like to think "dig deeper"...but what would you experienced guys do? Couldn't the target be deeper and since you've created an air space between it and the coil, and since you can't get any closer without widening the hole, the coil can't get it. And it's still too deep for the probe to get. Is that possible? Thanks, Ray.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

6x6 plug, Ray? Not in my yard!!!!

Possible for the probe to still be out of range . Not telling you to dig deeper.....YET.

Usually you get a stronger hit after removing dirt, but a 6" hole may totally screw up BBS . With a SMALL hole the signal usually gets stronger until you disturb the target, at which point the target will get weaker or dissapear...but you would find it with the probe.

Here is the the one that will make you dig holes for nothing......
Small shallow trash......very weak hit.
You lose the target as soon as you dig the plug.....even a small shallow plug.
You can't find it in the plug either with the probe or coil.
You don't have the same continuity in the dirt plug when checking with the coil.....it's almost an "air test". The probe may not be sensitive enough to pick it up no matter which direction you check the plug.

Here's the trick that works for me.....

Small shallow trash and very deep "keeper" size targets have similar response patterns in disc mode........they feel a little "loose".
In all metal (pinpoint) the response is still "loose" and indistinct for small shallow trash, but noticeably tighter and more distinct for a deep possible keeper.

Another thing I do to verify is to use my Uniprobe. It's much more sensitive than the S-1 or the Sov. I check BEFORE thinking about digging by checking the same spot where the Sov pinpointed the target. If the Uni gives a hit and the Sov has given the "loose" response in both modes, then I will walk away. This can be tricky around a lot of trash, as the Uni has no discrimination.
If the Uni gives no hit, then I dig.

I have also dug a very shallow plug ....maybe an inch. If the target dissapears, walk on.

Soooooooooooo........
Depending on how well you know your audio responses you should take out another 4-5" of dirt, or fill it up and walk away. And don't flip the coin a couple feet out of the hole when digging.

That's my rotten zinc's worth.
HH

 

[John LA]

I know Ray asked the question but I also needed the answer. HH John

 

[Art (NWOH)]

There are other reasons for losing targets as well.

You could break up the halo on a small bit of trash, or break up a mineral pocket of some sort. Possibly more things that I can't think of right now.

HH

 

[Macaco]

My father and I were hunting an old homestead site up in the Sierras about ten years ago.

We were both using Excaliburs.

My father got a hit, dug down about two inches, put his coil in and there was no signal. He dug down about three more inches, put the coil in and got the signal again but it was very broken.

The signal that he got then lost then got again was a busted, half gallon Mason jar with about four hundred silver coins in it. Dollars and halves.

It happened that there was an old pipe wrench burried a few inches away that must have nulled out the signal on the coins after he dug down the first time.

Sometimes it's a good idea to go a little deeper.

 

[JohnNZ]

Thanks all for the informative posts - still learning my elite.
been out a few times with it and have chased a few ghosts I didnt find..
all these posts help and are appreciated!
John

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Try anything you hear about that don't cost you anything but a little time. Pay very close attention to detector response rather than just sweeping away and hearing only beeps.
It all makes sense after a while.

HH

 

[Ray Hogan]

n/t

 

[Rick(ND)]

From what you have explained I would be digging deeper as it is a good one. If you are going slow in a area where old coins can be and get a slight signal, do the Sovereign wiggle and the tones and meter numbers are starting to climb I will then go to pinpoint to make sure there is a target where you are hearing this signal, not one way or the other from that spot. Once centered in all metal pinpoint doing my 90 degrees turn so it is centered right in the very center of the coil. I will leave my switch in all metal pinpoint and turn on the S1 probe as it has more depth in all metal than disc with the S1. I will dig out a plug and go in with the probe, but many times there is no signal or a very weak one, so I will dig deeper and go back into the hole. Sometimes it may be off to the side of the hole, but if you pinpointed it correctly and the target is at a angle it may be off by 3 or 4 inches, but the S1 will pick it up slightly in all metal pinpoint. Once I get a good signal I may go back to disc with the probe just to make sure it is a good target. I have dug many targets i have lost when I dig a plug, but I knew they were good so I just dug deeper. Many of these were between 10-14 inches deep.
Most of this will come with experience as telling the good from the bad, not something you will learn in the first few times out. The secret to the deep ones is going slow.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Got to talking about lost targets instead of staying with the particular kind of response Ray was talking about.

Guess it was because I don't know exactly what Ray is looking for in finds. Don't know his sense of values.

I don't hunt just for coins. I hunt for anything that is different from typical trash. Like the oddities, wazzits,rings, coins.
I don't key in on any particular tone value very often. It's the response ....no matter what the general tone.

My opinion of hits that climb depends on the initial strength of the hit, how much it climbs, how it climbs (slides, steps, how much climb, does it want to "hold"). Then the way it feels in relation to coil motion figures in. Then there is the problem of which detector I am swinging. The 2a handles these hits differently than the GT does.

To make a long senseless babble short......
Without knowing exactly what Ray is hearing or looking for, he should dig some more.

HH

 

[Rick(ND)]

That I will agree with that he needs to dig more plus like you if it is deep and the tones is trying to climb I will be digging as this is where you find some really nice items as there is not much modern trash at 8-13 inches deep and the Sovereigns hate iron, so it has to be a good target deep.
As you notice too Art many of these thing we know come from Experience and real hard to explain to others that want to learn quick, they just have to use the detector for a while and get to know it, then all this will come in place and make sense.

Rick

 

[Ray Hogan]

Well, I'm not really interested in newer items....anything older, and of course old silver coins are very welcome. Don't know if you would call it "relic" hunting here in Waco, Texas (although I have done a little of that back east), but I have found several civil war items, including a Virginia buckle, here in town. Mainly I hunt older sites (late 1800's is as old as it gets around here) and look for older items. Thanks Rick and Art and everyone else that helps guys like me. Ray

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Rick has wore his fingers out over this...........

Those old sites usually have a lot of the old iron square nails . You will get hits that are not clean around this stuff.
Check out any positive going hit.....
Work your way around to see it from a lot of different directions. Try to keep it just under the front of the coil. If you find enough of a hint that something good may be there, then dig it up. Be careful digging, as iron junk warps the coil's field and throws pinpointing off. Also, as with other junk, masking and averaging can cause a considerably wrong target reading......don't look for "perferct" readings only. Also, go slow, use a lot of overlap on your sweeps, and cover the area from a lot of different directions when the nails are thick.

HH

 

[Rick(ND)]

Ray,

Lot of good info here from Art on the nails that will fool you as a deep good target, but like Art says getting it to the tip of the coil and coming at different angle help tell if they are good or bad.
Where you will learn a lot is going out to use it and go slow and check out anything that is questionable, soon you will see how some of these targets respond and can tell if it is a good or bad one, but there always is those that are deep and not iron, so those we always dig if it is a positive signal and weak in both disc and pinpoint and the meter and tone is trying to climb and not really lock on.
To get real good with this detector you will have to have patience as those that do well will tell you, but the main thing is have fun and enjoy one of the best detectors out there, it will only get better.

Rick

 

[adam in cal]

I also like to put the probe in all metal as I have seen many where a nail is masking the good target,thus making it impossible to see ,try all metal you will be suprised at the amount of small bits of iron that are usually in them deep holes.

 

[Anonymous]

That's not only possible, but likely. Usually, it will be a tiny piece of nonferrous metal in the plug. You'll find the bogus target in the grass roots. Other than that, I know of two possible scenario's: first, it is a deep target. It took me a long time to force myself to dig...and keep digging. Once I discovered that the Sov can detect civil war bullets at 20+ inches, I learned to dig deep, and trust the Sov. Usually, you can dedect a target in an open hole by checking in All Metal Pinpoint. But don't expect to hear anything other than a faint signal. Sometimes, very faint. The other scenario is when two iron objects are near each other; i.e.; square nails or bits of tin. Once you pass over the first target, before it can completely disc it, you hit the second piece of iron, giving a false signal. Tin is especially prone to cause this, as the iron was galvanized with Tin, a conductive metal. So it can give you a signal that responds similar to a good target. The key in identifying this situation is in All Metal Pinpoint. If you have to move off the "sweet spot" to pinpoint, it is usually Tin or iron targets. If that happens it is more than likely junk iron. Otherwise; "When in doubt....DIG!" Good hunting, David@Dixie

 

[alaskaseeker]

You can consider. I used to call this the Disappearing signal. In Park areas where the ground is heavily fertilized and watered, the 1943 zinc coated steel pennies would just completely disintegrate, leaving a halo signal. What you might find is the rusty shell and the outline of the cent. Once this shell area is disturbed by the digging process the signal goes away. You might be able to hear the rust in the AM pinpoint but maybe not, depending on how your plugging has spread the stuff. There used to be lots of these cents found but probably not so many any more. This used to puzzle me until one of my plugs actually split right over the coin and I could see it outlined still in the ground, once disturbed it was no longer detectible.... HH...Geo