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How many tones?
- Thread starter JohnNZ
- Start date
Art (NWOH)
New member
Hundreds .
You could say that it is pretty much continuously variable.
Played with my 2a one time. Hooked up a frequency counter to the headphone connector and air tested a while with different objects at different speeds and distances to see what happens to the threshold tones.
Found that a different meter reading of 2 (on a 550 meter) would produce about 1/2 Hz difference in threshold tone. This difference is virtually indiscernible to the ear.
Could not do this with target audio because the counter requires a constant frequency input , and you never get a constant tone when sweeping a target. As the detector sees the target from different angles during the sweep, it will see a constantly changing conductivity . This causes a constantly changing tone and meter reading. You don't get a singular tone........you get a sound pattern or "word" that describes the target.
HH
You could say that it is pretty much continuously variable.
Played with my 2a one time. Hooked up a frequency counter to the headphone connector and air tested a while with different objects at different speeds and distances to see what happens to the threshold tones.
Found that a different meter reading of 2 (on a 550 meter) would produce about 1/2 Hz difference in threshold tone. This difference is virtually indiscernible to the ear.
Could not do this with target audio because the counter requires a constant frequency input , and you never get a constant tone when sweeping a target. As the detector sees the target from different angles during the sweep, it will see a constantly changing conductivity . This causes a constantly changing tone and meter reading. You don't get a singular tone........you get a sound pattern or "word" that describes the target.
HH
Art
Thansk for that - I assume that apples to the elite as well?
My tes was jsut a simple one - i swept a number of items past the coil and listened to the pitch of the main or loudest tone. A large US 1 $ coin gave me what I thought was the highest tone.
I haev read that the tones "rise" with a good target - I assume this is in pitch? So do bad targets "fall off" in pitch then?
thanks
John
Thansk for that - I assume that apples to the elite as well?
My tes was jsut a simple one - i swept a number of items past the coil and listened to the pitch of the main or loudest tone. A large US 1 $ coin gave me what I thought was the highest tone.
I haev read that the tones "rise" with a good target - I assume this is in pitch? So do bad targets "fall off" in pitch then?
thanks
John
Art (NWOH)
New member
You can expect roughly the same kind of threshold changes in pitch with all Sovs unless the internal tone control has been seriously adjusted.
Tones rising or falling......
No, good targets don't rise and bad ones don't fall. Not quite like that.
Often the Sov has to see a target more than once (usually just twice on a medium to strong target. Takes a couple sweeps.
A rising tone that is usually mentioned is when the target is weak and as you play the coil over it the Sov starts getting a better look and the tone will rise from the lower initial hit value.
A bad target that is weak will also tease up.
Watch out for strong targets that tease up quite a bit. Some trash will do this. Never seen a good one do it. Usually happens in very moist dirt.
The only tease down targets I have found so far were iron. An initial false but will change to a null, or a low tone with a null that teases down to the lowest iron buzz.
Seems to be at least 4 different iron threshold tones. A very small piece of foil can also do this.
HH
Tones rising or falling......
No, good targets don't rise and bad ones don't fall. Not quite like that.
Often the Sov has to see a target more than once (usually just twice on a medium to strong target. Takes a couple sweeps.
A rising tone that is usually mentioned is when the target is weak and as you play the coil over it the Sov starts getting a better look and the tone will rise from the lower initial hit value.
A bad target that is weak will also tease up.
Watch out for strong targets that tease up quite a bit. Some trash will do this. Never seen a good one do it. Usually happens in very moist dirt.
The only tease down targets I have found so far were iron. An initial false but will change to a null, or a low tone with a null that teases down to the lowest iron buzz.
Seems to be at least 4 different iron threshold tones. A very small piece of foil can also do this.
HH
Art (NWOH)
New member
Keep your coil motion slow enough so that you get more of a "word" than a "beep".
Because of conductivity patterns being different for different objects, you will soon see a difference between the good and the bad.
Let's take an extreme difference example......
Ignore the tone pitch and concentrate on the sound pattern for now...
Get a nasty looking large wad of aluminum foil and a coin or ring. Sweep over each and note the pattern. The foil will have a random nasty twisting sound while the coin or ring will sound smooth and clean.
This is just a start. Eventually you will get tuned in to the Sov and be able to sort through basic target pitch, sound pattern, width and symmetry when checking a target from different directions. Some you will ignore, while you will jump on others without looking at the meter.
Take your time and pay close attention. Very easy to use once you get used to it.
HH
Art
Because of conductivity patterns being different for different objects, you will soon see a difference between the good and the bad.
Let's take an extreme difference example......
Ignore the tone pitch and concentrate on the sound pattern for now...
Get a nasty looking large wad of aluminum foil and a coin or ring. Sweep over each and note the pattern. The foil will have a random nasty twisting sound while the coin or ring will sound smooth and clean.
This is just a start. Eventually you will get tuned in to the Sov and be able to sort through basic target pitch, sound pattern, width and symmetry when checking a target from different directions. Some you will ignore, while you will jump on others without looking at the meter.
Take your time and pay close attention. Very easy to use once you get used to it.
HH
Art
Hi Art,
This is hard to explain isn't it? For the beginner with the Sovereign and all these different tones and how they sound is very confusing to begin with and for some they learn it fast while others give up and sell the Sovereign. There is no real short cut other than to get out and use the Sovereign and listen to what the Sovereign is telling you and soon all these tones and how they all sound will make sense to you. You will find that with these tones and how solid or broken up you can get them with just wiggling the coil only over the target only you will know what the target is. We know a smoother sounding pull tab signal is where some of the gold rings read as the conductivity is equal thru out the signal while a pull tab will vary giving a signal that will not be as smooth sounding or more scratchy sounding.
Deep targets are those many will miss as they go too fast, but after some experience with the Sovereign and knowing the detector well they will notice some little tone changes in the threshold that will stop them dead in their tracks and wiggle over only the target to hear the tone trying to climb along with the meter reading, but just cant make it,but it is trying. These are some of the things a person learns with the use of the Sovereign.
If you have notice Adam in CA was having some problems with the Sovereign when he got it finding any old coins, we kept telling him to have patience and get to know the Sovereign and with experience he will see them come and now I have seen some very nice coins he is finding in his post on this and other forums. All it took was some experience with the Sovereign and the tips we all gave him and soon he understood the Sovereign language and can tell the good from the bad.
The Sovereign is a detector that gives you the info and lets you decide if you want to dig or not with the tones, the way they sound plus the meter reading, not a detector that decides for you with a beep and a icon or a bar showing you the probability of what it is.
The Sovereign is a detector for those that are serious about finding the deeper finds and good targets that are close to trash items.
Some of the tips for the Sovereign is to go slow as you can not go too slow in areas where you want to finds the deeper coins. Listen to those tone changes and work some of these by just going over only just the target area trying to get them to sound the best they can. If the meter seems to lock on to one number that is the ID of that target, but if it just keeps trying to climb but cant make it is one you may want to checkout. If you want the deeper target make sure you have a Sun Ray S1 probe as it help you find the deep one you may lose if you don't have a Sun Ray probe.
Biggest thing is to get some experience with the Sovereign, dig some trash just to see what it is. Dig all deep positive signals that are deep (weak small signals that are repeatable) as most new trash is not that deep and you will see some interesting finds.
One more thing is you will learn new things all most every time you go out with the Sovereign, so be prepared to learn something new and soon you will be a master with the Sovereign and impressing not only others, but yourself.
Good luck to all the newbies, the Sovereign is one of the best detector you will ever use, but you need some experience with it to get the max performance out of it, without the experince it will all sound like a foreign language.
Rick
This is hard to explain isn't it? For the beginner with the Sovereign and all these different tones and how they sound is very confusing to begin with and for some they learn it fast while others give up and sell the Sovereign. There is no real short cut other than to get out and use the Sovereign and listen to what the Sovereign is telling you and soon all these tones and how they all sound will make sense to you. You will find that with these tones and how solid or broken up you can get them with just wiggling the coil only over the target only you will know what the target is. We know a smoother sounding pull tab signal is where some of the gold rings read as the conductivity is equal thru out the signal while a pull tab will vary giving a signal that will not be as smooth sounding or more scratchy sounding.
Deep targets are those many will miss as they go too fast, but after some experience with the Sovereign and knowing the detector well they will notice some little tone changes in the threshold that will stop them dead in their tracks and wiggle over only the target to hear the tone trying to climb along with the meter reading, but just cant make it,but it is trying. These are some of the things a person learns with the use of the Sovereign.
If you have notice Adam in CA was having some problems with the Sovereign when he got it finding any old coins, we kept telling him to have patience and get to know the Sovereign and with experience he will see them come and now I have seen some very nice coins he is finding in his post on this and other forums. All it took was some experience with the Sovereign and the tips we all gave him and soon he understood the Sovereign language and can tell the good from the bad.
The Sovereign is a detector that gives you the info and lets you decide if you want to dig or not with the tones, the way they sound plus the meter reading, not a detector that decides for you with a beep and a icon or a bar showing you the probability of what it is.
The Sovereign is a detector for those that are serious about finding the deeper finds and good targets that are close to trash items.
Some of the tips for the Sovereign is to go slow as you can not go too slow in areas where you want to finds the deeper coins. Listen to those tone changes and work some of these by just going over only just the target area trying to get them to sound the best they can. If the meter seems to lock on to one number that is the ID of that target, but if it just keeps trying to climb but cant make it is one you may want to checkout. If you want the deeper target make sure you have a Sun Ray S1 probe as it help you find the deep one you may lose if you don't have a Sun Ray probe.
Biggest thing is to get some experience with the Sovereign, dig some trash just to see what it is. Dig all deep positive signals that are deep (weak small signals that are repeatable) as most new trash is not that deep and you will see some interesting finds.
One more thing is you will learn new things all most every time you go out with the Sovereign, so be prepared to learn something new and soon you will be a master with the Sovereign and impressing not only others, but yourself.
Good luck to all the newbies, the Sovereign is one of the best detector you will ever use, but you need some experience with it to get the max performance out of it, without the experince it will all sound like a foreign language.
Rick
the tones that I recognize are foil,iron,copper/silver,nickles,pull tabs,screw caps,beer caps.But I do rely on my meter as a back up to decide to dig or not.Ive gotten use to checking the meter reading and tone, and if I get a different reading with the same tone I would dig the target.Sometimes I do dig up a nice surprise.Hope this helped.HH
Art (NWOH)
New member
Rick.......
Perhaps I should have enquired as to which coil John is swinging.
My Sovs can really talk with the little BBS 800, while the T-10 is a little short on target seperation and requires more meter dependence.
It's something that I allow for without thinking about it, and usually end up failing to mention when talking about sound patterns.
Sometimes I really prefer the little coil over the larger ones at the expense of a little extra depth. Much easier to seperate the trash from the goodies.
Appreciate you jumping in. I don't have the talent for detailed explanations like you have.
HH
Art
Perhaps I should have enquired as to which coil John is swinging.
My Sovs can really talk with the little BBS 800, while the T-10 is a little short on target seperation and requires more meter dependence.
It's something that I allow for without thinking about it, and usually end up failing to mention when talking about sound patterns.
Sometimes I really prefer the little coil over the larger ones at the expense of a little extra depth. Much easier to seperate the trash from the goodies.
Appreciate you jumping in. I don't have the talent for detailed explanations like you have.
HH
Art
High Desert Jim
New member
Question: I know my ears are bad. (getin old beats the alturnitive)
I used to own a Sov XS does the GT/Elite have this new capability of recognozing pull tabs from nickes just by sound?
I used to own a Sov XS does the GT/Elite have this new capability of recognozing pull tabs from nickes just by sound?
I don't feel the tones are any different between the GT or the XS. I have a high tone hearing loss and the rest of my hearing is bad too, but the nickles to me have a different tone than pull tabs do. The beaver tails off the older round tabs are close to a nickle tone, but they too are a bit different. If you use a 180 meter than you can tell the pull tabs and nickle easy as the pull tabs will read 148- 170 while the beaver tails will read 140-141 and nickle will read 144-145 other then war nickle which can read up to 151,but still have the nice nickle tone to them.
Rick
Rick
I too like my 8 inch coinsearch coil over the 10 inch coil as this coil has done well for me as the tones seem to jump out better and would you believe I have dug deeper coins with the 8 inch coinsearch and the S8 coil of Sun Rays over the 10 inch coil.The only coil I have used that will beat it is the S12 coil.
What I like to tell all newbies to the Sovereign is to have patience and you will learn more from actual experience with the Sovereigns.
I just got to get more time out with my GT and quite trying so many other detectors trying to find one that will be as good as the Sovereigns are, but like many we try and try, but just cant find anything that will work better.
Rick
What I like to tell all newbies to the Sovereign is to have patience and you will learn more from actual experience with the Sovereigns.
I just got to get more time out with my GT and quite trying so many other detectors trying to find one that will be as good as the Sovereigns are, but like many we try and try, but just cant find anything that will work better.
Rick
for the many replies.
I still am a wee bit confused - some say they hear 7 tones, others more. Will just have to play lots myself.
Also now I read that the threshhold tone itself changes frequency after a target has passed the coil. I have noticed this and will need to figure this all out.
thanks again for the many replies and advice - it looks like a great machine!
JOhn
I still am a wee bit confused - some say they hear 7 tones, others more. Will just have to play lots myself.
Also now I read that the threshhold tone itself changes frequency after a target has passed the coil. I have noticed this and will need to figure this all out.
thanks again for the many replies and advice - it looks like a great machine!
JOhn
Art (NWOH)
New member
Never tried the coinsearch or the S-8. Have thought about it, but have let it slide.
I have my own preferences as to how I like a coil to talk to me. May cost me a few good ones in the trash, but would rather go with what really clicks in for me.
I don't try out other detectors. Like the way a Sov works overall. If you come up with a detector that equals or betters the Sov in all aspects other than digital ID and audio, then I won't look at it. You can keep the sucker.
HH
Art
I have my own preferences as to how I like a coil to talk to me. May cost me a few good ones in the trash, but would rather go with what really clicks in for me.
I don't try out other detectors. Like the way a Sov works overall. If you come up with a detector that equals or betters the Sov in all aspects other than digital ID and audio, then I won't look at it. You can keep the sucker.
HH
Art
Art (NWOH)
New member
It's about impossible to identify any exact tone. It's really a matter of your ears saying that a tone falls into a particular range of tones. That's why everyone says they hear a particular number of tones.
The Sov produces target audio that is of a higher pitch than the threshold tone. F.O.D. tells me that this is one octave different.
Also target audio is constantly changeing as the coil moves and sees changes in target conductivity. After the coil has passed a target you lose the target audio and are left with a steady threshold tone.
I can't tell the difference between a zinc penny and a high coin by the target audio, but sure can by the steady lingering threshold tone.
The threshold can give a lot if information about the dirt, sensitivity setting, sweep speed, and targets. Have tried silent search and find that it seriously degrades a Sov's capability.
HH
The Sov produces target audio that is of a higher pitch than the threshold tone. F.O.D. tells me that this is one octave different.
Also target audio is constantly changeing as the coil moves and sees changes in target conductivity. After the coil has passed a target you lose the target audio and are left with a steady threshold tone.
I can't tell the difference between a zinc penny and a high coin by the target audio, but sure can by the steady lingering threshold tone.
The threshold can give a lot if information about the dirt, sensitivity setting, sweep speed, and targets. Have tried silent search and find that it seriously degrades a Sov's capability.
HH
You explained that better than I could have with a lot less words.
I will add if you don't mind about the silent search as I too feel you get a lot of info with that threshold, but I can see a use for it too and one more reason I like the GT as you can turn it on or off. I find in some area where targets are far a few it always seems like you get a lot of iron or nulls that come back with the low tone growl of iron when the threshold come back and stays that way for quite a while. Now to me this tone is annoying so I can switch the silent search on and when I start getting some good targets I can go back to my threshold.
Rick
I will add if you don't mind about the silent search as I too feel you get a lot of info with that threshold, but I can see a use for it too and one more reason I like the GT as you can turn it on or off. I find in some area where targets are far a few it always seems like you get a lot of iron or nulls that come back with the low tone growl of iron when the threshold come back and stays that way for quite a while. Now to me this tone is annoying so I can switch the silent search on and when I start getting some good targets I can go back to my threshold.
Rick
Art (NWOH)
New member
I have myself tuned to work with it.
I keep it low to the point that I don't notice it after a couple minutes unless it changes or drops out. The tone range does not irritate me, while some tones from other sources really pizz me off.
I find that this also has something to do with the frequency response of the headphones. Some may be be just fine while others may give you an irritating edge to the tone at particular frequencies.
Gets to be a juggling act to piece together a "detecting system" that is custom "fitted" for each individual.
On my previous post.....
Not very often that I can do one of my fast and dirty posts without being a bit abrupt to the point that it needs clarification. Must be leftover tendencies from my time in the military where short and to the point responses were the rule of the day.
Have a good one.
HH
Art
I keep it low to the point that I don't notice it after a couple minutes unless it changes or drops out. The tone range does not irritate me, while some tones from other sources really pizz me off.
I find that this also has something to do with the frequency response of the headphones. Some may be be just fine while others may give you an irritating edge to the tone at particular frequencies.
Gets to be a juggling act to piece together a "detecting system" that is custom "fitted" for each individual.
On my previous post.....
Not very often that I can do one of my fast and dirty posts without being a bit abrupt to the point that it needs clarification. Must be leftover tendencies from my time in the military where short and to the point responses were the rule of the day.
Have a good one.
HH
Art
adam in cal
New member
we all hear different things , some have better hearing , some maybe more in tune with high pitchs where someone may be better at disqunishing the different nuiances in the lower tones , I myself only hear two main differences,but within those two I hear dramatic differences that indicate to a certian extent what I am passing over, I can hear the rise and fall within the threshold real well and so I feel it has lead me to some deeper coins , I find the nuiances to be anywhere fro mreal subtle to down right dramatic,but the threshold will rise sharply,or fall off and come back with a bumble bee growl. I guess the bottom line is,the sovereigns are good deep detectors and learning to master your unit is the key, a tip that works for Art or Rick may not nesecarrly work for me and vice versa ,but the overall concenus is to work nice and slow and listen for the subtle changes within the threshold to allow yourself to hear the deep coins ...........very interesting reading ........thanks .......