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How Fast is Fast Coil Sweeping?
- Thread starter Ronk
- Start date
A "normal" sweep would be on the order of 2 feet (60 cm) or a little more, searchcoil parallel to the ground, in a slight semicircle with the back of the searchcoil about 8 inches (20 cm) in front of your shoes. [size=small]Your shoes (for obvious reasons I hope!) need to be ones containing no metal-- many shoes have steel sole supports built in.[/size] A left-right sweep cycle should take about 1 1/2 seconds. This is what the ergonomics and electronics are "tuned for" as an overall optimum. Remember always to overlap your sweeps, unless you're running from the cops in which case I hope you're swinging a Minelab.
Meanwhile, search conditions vary, meaning that best results may be achieved by departing from "normal", just like 65 mph may be normal on the freeway but sometimes 85 and sometimes 25 are better speeds. Depends on conditions.
1. If you are searching in conditions of a lot of shallow trash, slow down. This will reduce masking of good targets by bad ones.
2. If you are searching for medium to large size targets in non-trashy conditions, sweep the searchcoil a bit faster. This will usually mean a combination of broader sweep farther out in front of your feet, though some users may prefer to speed up the sweep cycle. Either thing increases user effort, so get a feel for what combination of sweep cycle time and sweep distance works best for you.
3. When you're checking out a target in discrimination mode, or in all metals mode watching the "speedometer" display for target ID information, use a sweep wide enough to go clear past the target on both sides. Don't narrow it down hovering over the target, even if their are multiple targets present. Slow it down if you must to maintain separation in target response, but keep it wide.
4. When you're checking out a target, if there's any doubt in your mind whether you're going to dig it, sweep over it from different angles. At least two directions at 90 degrees, called "X'ing the target". In a trashy area or area with hot rocks, checking the target from multiple compass directions will help locate more precisely and identify targets.
--Dave J.
Meanwhile, search conditions vary, meaning that best results may be achieved by departing from "normal", just like 65 mph may be normal on the freeway but sometimes 85 and sometimes 25 are better speeds. Depends on conditions.
1. If you are searching in conditions of a lot of shallow trash, slow down. This will reduce masking of good targets by bad ones.
2. If you are searching for medium to large size targets in non-trashy conditions, sweep the searchcoil a bit faster. This will usually mean a combination of broader sweep farther out in front of your feet, though some users may prefer to speed up the sweep cycle. Either thing increases user effort, so get a feel for what combination of sweep cycle time and sweep distance works best for you.
3. When you're checking out a target in discrimination mode, or in all metals mode watching the "speedometer" display for target ID information, use a sweep wide enough to go clear past the target on both sides. Don't narrow it down hovering over the target, even if their are multiple targets present. Slow it down if you must to maintain separation in target response, but keep it wide.
4. When you're checking out a target, if there's any doubt in your mind whether you're going to dig it, sweep over it from different angles. At least two directions at 90 degrees, called "X'ing the target". In a trashy area or area with hot rocks, checking the target from multiple compass directions will help locate more precisely and identify targets.
--Dave J.
I know most hobbyists seem to never master sweep speed. At least, not for quite a while. With the earlier 4-filter types, such as the older White's 6000 series or early-day Teknetics 9000 or 8500 CoinComputer models, you needed to use a rather brisk sweep speed to get much performance. They had some advantages, but faster sweeping was rather fatiguing, and it also ended up being a rather long-sweep, too.
Newer 4-filter types (also known as moderate or fast-sweep designs), such as the White's XL Pro or XLT, can be adjusted for a reasonably slower and comfortable sweep speed, but even my XLT with my custom programs, which is a slower-sweep set-up, isn't as slow a sweep as the same brands Classic ID or Classic III SL or IDX Pro, or other typical modern designs like the Teknetics line-up, including the G2.
Note that Dave J. suggested a sweep of about 2 feet in about 1
Newer 4-filter types (also known as moderate or fast-sweep designs), such as the White's XL Pro or XLT, can be adjusted for a reasonably slower and comfortable sweep speed, but even my XLT with my custom programs, which is a slower-sweep set-up, isn't as slow a sweep as the same brands Classic ID or Classic III SL or IDX Pro, or other typical modern designs like the Teknetics line-up, including the G2.
Note that Dave J. suggested a sweep of about 2 feet in about 1
Just thinkin'... Lots of gripin' about shallow targets and never seeing anything deep. Any chance this is a major contributor? I notice no one mentioned depth specifically, rather focusing on discrimination specifically and performance in general. Also, I have been doing a tight (lo & narrow) coil wiggle over the target as a last step before digging as a final check in target IDing. It seems to pull a more stable number. Dave J. seemed so adamant about over swinging, I wonder if this is a problem somehow?
Tom
Oh, anyone know how to get a Casio to beep every 1.5 seconds?
Tom
Oh, anyone know how to get a Casio to beep every 1.5 seconds?
Most detectors I have Had or Have Are Slower sweep but One reason I asked is..Just about all videos I have watched they are swinging their detectors like Golf Clubs No matter what brand or type of detector.Even when doing Demo Videos when air testing targets across the coil it's almost like a blur at warp speed.So Monte I know you are right about some folks never mastering their sweep speed.My Classic is slow sweep but there Are times when I Can go just a hair faster with good results..just depending. I have been doing the Slow Sweep 2 Step dance for years that I just can't imagine people can find anything with sweep speeds that I have seen on some of these Demo or Field testing videos.If those were Weed Eaters instead of detectors they would of cut down an acre in 5 minutes!
I DID see a few videos of the G2/GB where they were doing Great in the trash with slightly faster sweep speeds than one of my Slower Sweep detectors.But for the most part a lot of the Demos and Field testing were at "Break Neck" speeds and of course they didn't find much and a lot of them didn't take the time to sweep from different angles to investigate any iffy signals.I just don't want to miss anything IF Possible by using the wrong sweep speed.I know through the years I probably have missed things as well as others for the same reason.As I have stated in multiple posts that I am Mostly hunting in and around trash both Ferrous & Non Ferrous and I just need to know the Proper Sweep Speed for the GB/G2 but as You and DJ have stated there are some variables to consider.One example is I was using my C3SL in some heavy nails and other small trash going slow as usual....I got a partially good signal or Iffy signal and then I slowed down even slower.... (By the way I was using the 5.5 Ferret which is on 95% of time) and made shorter sweeps about 5 or 6 inches total distance and then signal sounded even better and it turned out to be one the smallest brass items I have ever detected with my Classic.The ground was average to moderate with shallow hot rocks mixed in.If I would have used a faster or too slow of speed I know I would of missed that target.
So I know that conditions and the amount of trash and other variables change things.You are right about the 2 feet coverage in about 1 1/2 seconds for the Classic at least on the average that seems to work great!
Thanks for You and David J. helping explain the Subject of "Sweep Speed" as it made it a little more easier to understand.
HH!
RonK
I DID see a few videos of the G2/GB where they were doing Great in the trash with slightly faster sweep speeds than one of my Slower Sweep detectors.But for the most part a lot of the Demos and Field testing were at "Break Neck" speeds and of course they didn't find much and a lot of them didn't take the time to sweep from different angles to investigate any iffy signals.I just don't want to miss anything IF Possible by using the wrong sweep speed.I know through the years I probably have missed things as well as others for the same reason.As I have stated in multiple posts that I am Mostly hunting in and around trash both Ferrous & Non Ferrous and I just need to know the Proper Sweep Speed for the GB/G2 but as You and DJ have stated there are some variables to consider.One example is I was using my C3SL in some heavy nails and other small trash going slow as usual....I got a partially good signal or Iffy signal and then I slowed down even slower.... (By the way I was using the 5.5 Ferret which is on 95% of time) and made shorter sweeps about 5 or 6 inches total distance and then signal sounded even better and it turned out to be one the smallest brass items I have ever detected with my Classic.The ground was average to moderate with shallow hot rocks mixed in.If I would have used a faster or too slow of speed I know I would of missed that target.
So I know that conditions and the amount of trash and other variables change things.You are right about the 2 feet coverage in about 1 1/2 seconds for the Classic at least on the average that seems to work great!
Thanks for You and David J. helping explain the Subject of "Sweep Speed" as it made it a little more easier to understand.
HH!
RonK
Honestly, I doubt that the greater percentage of metal detecting enthusiasts find a great percentage of "deep" targets, when looking for coins and jewelry, etc., and that might be one reason it isn't brought up as often,.pasttom said:
Also, since most MD'ing hobbyists are involved in Coin Hunting, you know that most sites are likely to be littered and that might be why so many ask about things like discrimination, etc.
Dave J. is correct when he said that for best performance you'll get a more proper TID and VDI reading if you slightly over-sweep the target. If it's a coin and you coil is 5" in diameter then than means have the edge of the coil at least 2pasttom said:
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
Lots of good info to be had on this post! Thanks Dave, Monte and all!
Thanks for the attention Monte, I have rethought some things going over this thread. Even though I know better, I can see my thinking reverts to 2 dimensional visualization of swing pattern as I hunt. I picture the surface as a wall and my coil as a brush and figure if I cover the wall and don't leave gaps I did a good job. I forget to remember that the 3 dimensional reality is the deeper a target the smaller the brush, hence, the wider the gap with the same strokes. Even though I know better, I am in such a hurry to cover my area and move on/find the next target I slide into bad habits. Because I find stuff I neglect to focus on what I may have missed. Since I'll never know what I missed its easier to do.
Sometimes I think I should take up golf. Fewer strokes, fewer holes and they get mad if you fill them when you are done. You can turn pro if you get good enough, get rich and ... pay taxes. Any of you declare your findings? I'll stick with this I think.
Tom
Sometimes I think I should take up golf. Fewer strokes, fewer holes and they get mad if you fill them when you are done. You can turn pro if you get good enough, get rich and ... pay taxes. Any of you declare your findings? I'll stick with this I think.
Tom
I didn't mention "Depth" because that is not what I originally posted about.My post was about "Sweep Speed" but since You brought up the subject...I read so much about "The Obsession Of DEPTH" I could write my own Library on the subject! In fact,that's the title of my new book..."The Obsession Of Depth" Ha! Just Kiddin.But really...Someone can post about something and for some reason the subject of "Depth" takes over the post! Just because someone makes a claim about finding a good target at elbows depth the first thing they do is sell their current detector and buy the same detector so They can start finding coins at 2 feet deep also.In all my years in this hobby I have never seen a real honest video of someone actually detecting and measuring the hole of a good find at depths claimed .Not saying it's never been done,There are more claims of great depth but I personally have never seen anything myself.Air test are easily believable,Test Gardens are believable but Real World depth claims"Caught On Video"?!
When someone makes a post about something..even Not about depth...a lot of times the first question is "What Was The Depth?" Don't get me wrong,I like depth just as much as anyone but people are so "Obsessed with Depth it seems like they don't give a hoot about all the other factors,It seems some don't care if it signals on grub worms as long as it's "DEEP" My Best finds were all shallow! I have good deep things too but not as good as my shallow targets! These days a lot of areas I hunt have been pounded by everything But...the good shallow targets are still there because of masking.That's where I come in with a detector that will Unmask in the iron and trash and get what they missed either by them having too much disc and not want to dig even "one" piece of trash to get to the good stuff or the detector and/or coil they were using was not very good in iron.Sweep Speed was what I originally started in the thread because I want to improve my chance on finding the masked targets in iron or trash..shallow or deep..that others have missed by using the correct sweep speed for a particular location.
When someone makes a post about something..even Not about depth...a lot of times the first question is "What Was The Depth?" Don't get me wrong,I like depth just as much as anyone but people are so "Obsessed with Depth it seems like they don't give a hoot about all the other factors,It seems some don't care if it signals on grub worms as long as it's "DEEP" My Best finds were all shallow! I have good deep things too but not as good as my shallow targets! These days a lot of areas I hunt have been pounded by everything But...the good shallow targets are still there because of masking.That's where I come in with a detector that will Unmask in the iron and trash and get what they missed either by them having too much disc and not want to dig even "one" piece of trash to get to the good stuff or the detector and/or coil they were using was not very good in iron.Sweep Speed was what I originally started in the thread because I want to improve my chance on finding the masked targets in iron or trash..shallow or deep..that others have missed by using the correct sweep speed for a particular location.
My reply was for someone else and had nothing to do with your post.I just wanted you to know.For some reason it didn't get posted under the post that I replied to So it has nothing to do with your post. That way you'll know.I must of clicked on something else.It should of been posted Below the one I replied to but it didn't.
RonK
RonK
CarolinaClyde
New member
n/t
Ken in Georgia
New member
You are correct and changes by each detector that you use.