Hi y'all. I was thinking about getting a lightweight backup detector and was thinking about the Ace 250. One thing that has me curious is the sensitivity to small gold. I'm not talking rings, I'm talking small.. Tesoro small. Has anyone compared the 2 brands? I'm kinda waffling between the Ace 250, Xterra 50, and an older Tesoro (ToltecII) or Golden uMax. I like the price of the Ace 250, but don't know about its' small gold ability. For example, would it pick up a 3 grain nugget? I'm not too worried about the preset GB, especially if there's a trimmer pot inside. If the factory GB'ed to ferrite, it shoul be close enough to my ground anyway. ..Willy.
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How does the Ace 250 compare on small gold?
- Thread starter willy
- Start date
Uncle Willy
New member
It's quite sensitive to small metal especially with the sniper coil. Check with Ralph Bryant here on the forum. He has both the 250 and Compadre.
Bill
Bill
Dirt-Digger
New member
I'd have to say the X-terra 50 with the 18khz coil would do a better job of the two on real small gold like your talking, but it is a lot more doe then the Ace 250.
Actually, I was thinking about the stock coil on the Xterra. Did some tests with the GTI 2000 and found that it could almost pick up the 3 grain nugget in disc. mode while it could easily pick it up in AM mode. Now, compare that to the QXT; with noise reduction off it could pick up the nugget in disc. and with NR on it couldn't. This is with the stock 9.5" coil on both detectors. Now, if the Ace 250 can match the GTI 2000 performance in disc. or, even better, the QXT... it would be pretty hot on gold. I don't intend to use it for prospecting, it's just my main pursuit and how a detector reacts to a certain sized nugget tells me a lot about how it will do in the field. ...Willy.
The Tesoros are the Tejon and the Sidewinder. Comparing the 250 to these two, the only one that I would seriously consider for small gold (nuggets) would have to be the "T".
NOT that the 250 isn't a good machine and it will pick up larger rings etc. just fine... the other machine is just much more sensitive to small gold, birdshot etc.
This isn't to bash the Garretts at all, I just use different machines for different tasks as they all have strengths and weaknesses.
HH All!
Skillet
NOT that the 250 isn't a good machine and it will pick up larger rings etc. just fine... the other machine is just much more sensitive to small gold, birdshot etc.
This isn't to bash the Garretts at all, I just use different machines for different tasks as they all have strengths and weaknesses.
HH All!
Skillet
Well, for nuggets I have my GMT or Infinium. There are a number of freshwater beaches I'd like to hunt for jewellry, which includes the smaller pieces and chains/bracelets. That's where the small gold sensitivity becomes critical. Of course, I could hunt them with my Infinium (it will pick up a 3 grain nugget), but it can get a bit much after a while. As an aside, what do you think of the Ace 250's depth ompared to the other 2 tesoros? ...Willy.
BigCatDaddy
New member
Can't say much about the Tesoros as I only have limited time on my Tejon, but I did find a small gold stud earring with the 250 using the stock coil. It was very small and the 250 hit it hard at 3" deep. I had to use the Vibraprobe to find it in my dig pile.
Ralph Bryant
New member
Alot of non-gold specific machines that will hit "grain" sized nuggets in the air will totally lose them due to mineralization in most ground conditions where they are naturally found. The 250 does well on small gold....jewelry wise....but I wouldn't give it high marks on tiny grain-sized gold or very thin chains.
<center>[attachment 17425 DSC00251.JPG]</center>
Here is a pic to give you an idea of the lower limits of what it will find with the 4.5 inch coil. Chains are going to depend on their orientation (balled up or lying flat) and the larger findings in the way of connectors, clasps, spring-rings, jump-rings, lobster claws, barrel clasps, etc. Alot of the tiny stuff will register down into the high iron range, and is all but impossible to differentiate from small or very deep iron without digging it up, same scenario as hunting small natural gold nuggets with any discrimination or ID machine.
Ralph
<center>[attachment 17425 DSC00251.JPG]</center>
Here is a pic to give you an idea of the lower limits of what it will find with the 4.5 inch coil. Chains are going to depend on their orientation (balled up or lying flat) and the larger findings in the way of connectors, clasps, spring-rings, jump-rings, lobster claws, barrel clasps, etc. Alot of the tiny stuff will register down into the high iron range, and is all but impossible to differentiate from small or very deep iron without digging it up, same scenario as hunting small natural gold nuggets with any discrimination or ID machine.
Ralph
The 250 operates at a lower frequency than the Tejon and Sidewinder and, as you might expect, the latter two machines seem more sensitive to lower conductivity targets... the Sidewinder marginally so and the Tejon extremely so.
BUT, the Tejon is designed for deep relics and costs 2-3 times what the 250 sells for. Comparing depth between the 250 and the Sidewinder makes more sense price-wise. On coins, it's close, but the 250 seems to hit a little harder than the discontinued Sidewinder. For smaller gold rings, the Sidewinder has a slight edge. Both hit nickels about the same.
The Sidewinder has, in my opinion, slightly faster response time and easier pinpointing. Discontinued, you have to go used to get one.
The 250 has more features, making it a more versatile machine. It's also a very good value... probably the BEST value in it's price range for a new machine. Not a nugget-machine, not the deepest, just a fun 'tector with solid performance.
But you only asked about depth and I'm rambling on...
Skillet
BUT, the Tejon is designed for deep relics and costs 2-3 times what the 250 sells for. Comparing depth between the 250 and the Sidewinder makes more sense price-wise. On coins, it's close, but the 250 seems to hit a little harder than the discontinued Sidewinder. For smaller gold rings, the Sidewinder has a slight edge. Both hit nickels about the same.
The Sidewinder has, in my opinion, slightly faster response time and easier pinpointing. Discontinued, you have to go used to get one.
The 250 has more features, making it a more versatile machine. It's also a very good value... probably the BEST value in it's price range for a new machine. Not a nugget-machine, not the deepest, just a fun 'tector with solid performance.
But you only asked about depth and I'm rambling on...
Skillet
I have a 250, (just purchased) and if i found a gold nugget i could not find it as i cant learn to pinpoint with it. I have tried all the advise on here and i still cant get the hang of it. Never had any trouble with any other garrett machine i have. I love the detector, and will not give up on it yet. I can use my gtax550 and 750 pinpoint with them, stick a probe in the ground and hit the coin nearly every time., Not so with the 250, I take a back hoe along to dig when i use the 250. One hell of a machine, i just cant get the hang of it. Can any of you really pinpoint accurately with it? Jery
Uncle Willy
New member
The pinpoint takes a little practice and you may not be performing it correctly. The pinpoint is dead on when executed properly. When I field tested the 250 months ago I mastered the pinpointing in minutes.
Did you watch the pinpointing animation on the Garrett web site? And have you tried the 90 degree procedure I have described several times?
Bill
Did you watch the pinpointing animation on the Garrett web site? And have you tried the 90 degree procedure I have described several times?
Bill
Try circling the target, X ing from east-to-west then north-to-south... this generally works well if you're having trouble.
For shallow targets, try X ing while standing in one spot.When scanning up and down, the target should hit right at the little notch in the inner coil.
If THIS doesn't work, your machine may have a problem.
Let us know!
Skillet
For shallow targets, try X ing while standing in one spot.When scanning up and down, the target should hit right at the little notch in the inner coil.
If THIS doesn't work, your machine may have a problem.
Let us know!
Skillet
Depth is always nice when hunting a beach, but the truth of the matter is that I've had many a detector that wasn't considered deep do just fine. This includes a number of Tesoros. It's due to the ground I hunt. I've always liked Tesoros, just really disliked their lack of features and sometimes badly thought out functions/controls. Take, for example, the Golden uMax. The notch function is rather badly thought out. It would have been far more effective if the POT controlled where the notch resided (like the Pantera, Golden Sabre, SS+, SS2) with the toggle being narrow/off/wide. Strangely enough, some lower frequency detectors I've used/tested seem to hit pretty hard on tiny gold. It seems to be a function of gain and filtering. Also, many of the older Tesoros (and some of the new) don't have a full range disc., which kinda handicaps them and makes me wonder what the higher ups at Tesoro were thinking. Regardless, decent depth, good disc./ID, really good iron handling capabilities (plus a reasonable sensitivity to low conductors) and light weight are my major criteria. Kinda makes things hard and the ideal solution is to have a variety of detectors, but living in an already overstuffed RV really limits the # of detectors I can have lying about. ..Willy.
Uncle Willy
New member
Yeah it do get crowded don't it. You're right about some Tesoros and Jack is a helluva engineer. Don't know what he was thinking of on some of them and I've owned a slew of Tesoros ever since Jack opened his doors for business.
Bill
Bill
Uncle Willy
New member
Wet wouldn't effect pinpoint but it does increase the conductivity of targets and makes the coil more sensitive to them. When you pinpoint are you twitching the coil side to side until the target is centered then dragging the coil straight back until the instant the signal stops?
Bill
Bill
>Can any of you really pinpoint accurately with it?
Sure. Right on the money most times. The only time I
have to diddle with it is when I have multiple targets,
or some unwanted extra metal in the area. In that case,
sometimes you have to let it detune, so it will have a
shallower depth, and won't let it wander off trying to
pinpoint a 2nd target. On trashy areas with the "target"
not too deep, but say iron down deeper, I might have to
let it detune more than once in order to shrink the
pinpoint size and depth so it will ignore the other target
and pinpoint the desired target only. You will learn little
tricks as you go. On single target finds like a single coin,
I find it simple to pinpoint, and very accurate. I can usually
stab the coin in place if I'm real careful lining it up.
What I would do is get a cardboard box, or something that you
can stick coins on top, but not get false readings from
anything else below. Practice pinpointing the coin while
you can actually see it. In one of my posts about a week or
so ago, I posted a picture of the usual pinpoint pattern you
will see. You might have it. If not, look for the thread, or
I can post it again if you can't find it. That will show
what you should see as far as the pattern. Once you get it
down while looking at it, then practice it with your eyes
closed, and see how close you can get. Just remember, if you
are hearing a tone, the inner coil is over the target.
All you really have to do at that point is find the center
of the pinpoint pattern, by the moving back and forth for
max signal, and then gradually pull it back so the tone goes
away. It's important that you are in the "middle" of the pin-
point pattern at the point you are drawing it back to the drop
out point. Thats why you should twitch the coil side to side
while you are nearing that point. You should be able to hear
the tone equally on each side. If not, you are not exactly in
the middle of the pattern, and the location will be slightly
skewed to one side.
Anyway, it's usually pretty easy once you get the hang. I had
it down real fast. Guess I'm lucky...
One reason I would try pinpointing on a box. That will verify
that the pinpointer is actually working correctly. If you
can't pinpoint, and get a drop off on a viewed coin, it may
well have a problem, but I sorta doubt it. It's probably
workin...
BTW...I decided to go ahead and repost the pinpoint pattern
diagram so you won't have to look for it... Might take a
while, as I didn't post it as a new thread...
You should see that appx pattern if you try it on a coin on
a cardboard box. Another thing you can try is to bury a coin
and then mark it with a golf tee, or whatever.. Don't be
afraid to repress the pinpoint button to retune if you don't
like the pattern you get. I might have to do that 3-4 times
in a busy area with lots of targets.
MK
Sure. Right on the money most times. The only time I
have to diddle with it is when I have multiple targets,
or some unwanted extra metal in the area. In that case,
sometimes you have to let it detune, so it will have a
shallower depth, and won't let it wander off trying to
pinpoint a 2nd target. On trashy areas with the "target"
not too deep, but say iron down deeper, I might have to
let it detune more than once in order to shrink the
pinpoint size and depth so it will ignore the other target
and pinpoint the desired target only. You will learn little
tricks as you go. On single target finds like a single coin,
I find it simple to pinpoint, and very accurate. I can usually
stab the coin in place if I'm real careful lining it up.
What I would do is get a cardboard box, or something that you
can stick coins on top, but not get false readings from
anything else below. Practice pinpointing the coin while
you can actually see it. In one of my posts about a week or
so ago, I posted a picture of the usual pinpoint pattern you
will see. You might have it. If not, look for the thread, or
I can post it again if you can't find it. That will show
what you should see as far as the pattern. Once you get it
down while looking at it, then practice it with your eyes
closed, and see how close you can get. Just remember, if you
are hearing a tone, the inner coil is over the target.
All you really have to do at that point is find the center
of the pinpoint pattern, by the moving back and forth for
max signal, and then gradually pull it back so the tone goes
away. It's important that you are in the "middle" of the pin-
point pattern at the point you are drawing it back to the drop
out point. Thats why you should twitch the coil side to side
while you are nearing that point. You should be able to hear
the tone equally on each side. If not, you are not exactly in
the middle of the pattern, and the location will be slightly
skewed to one side.
Anyway, it's usually pretty easy once you get the hang. I had
it down real fast. Guess I'm lucky...
One reason I would try pinpointing on a box. That will verify
that the pinpointer is actually working correctly. If you
can't pinpoint, and get a drop off on a viewed coin, it may
well have a problem, but I sorta doubt it. It's probably
workin...
BTW...I decided to go ahead and repost the pinpoint pattern
diagram so you won't have to look for it... Might take a
while, as I didn't post it as a new thread...
You should see that appx pattern if you try it on a coin on
a cardboard box. Another thing you can try is to bury a coin
and then mark it with a golf tee, or whatever.. Don't be
afraid to repress the pinpoint button to retune if you don't
like the pattern you get. I might have to do that 3-4 times
in a busy area with lots of targets.
MK
Yea Bill, I've tried mine with both wet damp soil, and
fairly dry. No real difference in pinpointing. But,
like you say, things can seem a little "hotter" with
the damper soil. BTW...Jery...I forgot this in my previous
post...If you have trouble with busy targets, you also
might try lowering the sensitivity a bit. I've had shallow
targets get fooled by deeper iron, etc when pinpointing.
In those cases, I'll lower the sensitivity and retune the
pinpointer until it ignores the lower trash, and pinpoints
only on the desired target. Like I say, sometimes it will
take 2-3 resets before it settles down and goes only for
the desired target. But those are busy areas. You shouldn't
see that on single targets.
MK
fairly dry. No real difference in pinpointing. But,
like you say, things can seem a little "hotter" with
the damper soil. BTW...Jery...I forgot this in my previous
post...If you have trouble with busy targets, you also
might try lowering the sensitivity a bit. I've had shallow
targets get fooled by deeper iron, etc when pinpointing.
In those cases, I'll lower the sensitivity and retune the
pinpointer until it ignores the lower trash, and pinpoints
only on the desired target. Like I say, sometimes it will
take 2-3 resets before it settles down and goes only for
the desired target. But those are busy areas. You shouldn't
see that on single targets.
MK
It seems like i have better luck pushing the coil forward and digging underneath the piece that connects the inner coil to the outer coil in the back. Is this possible. Man, i have been at this a long time and never had this much trouble, reckon i am losing it. Thanks for the info, and i am sure all are getting tired of me posting about the pinpointing. No more i will just learn it. Jery
saika/ace250
New member
I was looking into this later last year and have done a bit of diggin' on dry land, my basement, to test.
Many years back I found a very thin childs gold ring on the beach with my 1260x, gad do I miss that machine.
I used it as a starting point and was surprised to find that the 250 with stock coil would nail it at 3" and stutter at 4" if it is laid out flat. If I swept the coil across the faces with the ring on edge I would get a double blip equal to the depth of the ring. If I swept the coil in line with the ring, nothing. Even my wedding band did the same....special note here!!!!
I moved on and used any gold studs that I could find in the house with mixed results. A very small set of earrings that use copper as the mixed metal, Russian gold, just belted out at 4" and were lost at 5".
Chains respond according to the size of the links. I found no variation whether the chain was all balled up or laid out, the telling factor whether it could be detected or not was more determined by the mass and make up of the clasps. A piece of fairly robust box chain refused to give a signal that you would look twice at, add a clasp and clear solid signal at under 3".
I have noticed that most of the "gold" machines are higher frequency. I read an explanation as to why this is the case but can't locate it right now. I believe that the Tesoro units are higher frequency as well as the gold stinger and some of the whites units. This does not rule out VLf units. I for one do not plan to hunt for micro gold in my park, I am hunting something larger usually with a cut stone already implanted for added wealth. I figure that studs and engagement rings are the ones to go after.
Take care everyone. Love the thread.
Many years back I found a very thin childs gold ring on the beach with my 1260x, gad do I miss that machine.
I used it as a starting point and was surprised to find that the 250 with stock coil would nail it at 3" and stutter at 4" if it is laid out flat. If I swept the coil across the faces with the ring on edge I would get a double blip equal to the depth of the ring. If I swept the coil in line with the ring, nothing. Even my wedding band did the same....special note here!!!!
I moved on and used any gold studs that I could find in the house with mixed results. A very small set of earrings that use copper as the mixed metal, Russian gold, just belted out at 4" and were lost at 5".
Chains respond according to the size of the links. I found no variation whether the chain was all balled up or laid out, the telling factor whether it could be detected or not was more determined by the mass and make up of the clasps. A piece of fairly robust box chain refused to give a signal that you would look twice at, add a clasp and clear solid signal at under 3".
I have noticed that most of the "gold" machines are higher frequency. I read an explanation as to why this is the case but can't locate it right now. I believe that the Tesoro units are higher frequency as well as the gold stinger and some of the whites units. This does not rule out VLf units. I for one do not plan to hunt for micro gold in my park, I am hunting something larger usually with a cut stone already implanted for added wealth
. I figure that studs and engagement rings are the ones to go after.Take care everyone. Love the thread.