How does one 'Supertune' an Outlaw?

[mojotrout]

I have seen video for the Vaq and a description for the Tejon. How exactly does it work with the outlaw? Has anyone done this with good results? What are the drawbacks--if any?

 

[mike5853]

You can't really super tune an Outlaw. Although the Vaquero and the Outlaw are similar throughout the numerical range with the "V" being slightly deeper, in the red zone, where super tuning takes place, the "V" will outperform the Outlaw by 2 1/2 to 3 inches. You can certainly crank up the gain on the Outlaw, but it's not really super tuning.

 

[mojotrout]

Thanks Mike. I saw on a forum discussion that someone described a process by which you would ground balance in all-metal auto when you turn on the Outlaw (as per the instruction manual), but once you switched it to Discrimination mode, the GB would be too positive. This would cause a healthy reduction in depth and some said a complete removal of silver from metals the outlaw would detect. A few folks posted that you should either 1- turn the GB a 1/4 -1/2 turn to the negative once in Disc. to counter this effect or, 2- "super tune" or "power balance" or some such term. However, the process that was described did not really work for me because I never heard the "pop" or "beep" I was supposed to when GB-ing in Disc mode. So , is this necessary or were these people smoking some strong stuff? Does an Outlaw owner have to continually GB when going from AMA to Disc and back again?

I think "super tune" wasnt the correct term to use here so I edited the Subject line to "power balance" but it didnt work. I was hoping someone would say how to counter or correct the "too positive" consequence of GBing in All-metal Auto and then switching into Disc. Perhaps the "retune" button helps with this, Ive seen someone say that too. Anyone else recall this discussion here or elsewhere or am i the one who smoked something?

 

[JimGilmore]

Basically your looking to get a slight rise in volumn when you lift the coil in all metal i would think. That would be a negative ground balance.

 

[MarkCZ]

Super tuning is in the Vaquero owners manual.

Mark

 

[mojotrout]

That makes sense to me, and that's a much easier method than the one I was referring to above. What Im not sure about is whether one SHOULD be slightly negative-balanced. What are the consequences of running the machine this way?

 

[GunnarMN]

Well my outlaw seems to get a bit better sound if its a bit negitive GB- and you can really crank some gain up on it but next to the power lines I did have to keep it down a bit as it was falsing with the 10x12 DD but then so did all my detectors in the same spot , just to be faire , you are suposed to start in threshold all metal , and do the GB then go to disq or the no motion , I find if wile in no motion i go back to threshold all metal i loose my no motion settings but i can go from no motion to disq and not loose the no motion setting. dont know if that helps. I use the 7" DD and that gets a dime at 6" or better in ground not to badd, I think the 8" round is deeper

 

[MarkCZ]

Well my outlaw seems to get a bit better sound if its a bit negitive GB- and you can really crank some gain up on it but next to the power lines I did have to keep it down a bit as it was falsing with the 10x12 DD but then so did all my detectors in the same spot , just to be faire , you are suposed to start in threshold all metal , and do the GB then go to disq or the no motion , I find if wile in no motion i go back to threshold all metal i loose my no motion settings but i can go from no motion to disq and not loose the no motion setting. dont know if that helps. I use the 7" DD and that gets a dime at 6" or better in ground not to badd, I think the 8" round is deeper

Super Tuning the "V" doesn't change the ground balance, you max out the Threshold control.

Mark

 

[:Left4Dead]

Super tuning should not really be called that.. Its just more threshold so deep items sound just as loud as shallow items do. Like a compadre. I have always wondered why they use the term, "Super tuning"

 

[Idxpro]

Some say the Outlaw can't be supertuned. Tesoro's web site claims any of their machines with a threshold control can be supertuned. I think it's just a loose term in general. Does it work? Yes... Just don't hit that pinpoint button when your running ths way and wearing headphones....Lol.. Ouch!! I ran my Outlaw yesterday at the woodsline of a local park. There was another guy using an at pro. He came over and was very interested in what I was swinging. He had never heard of Tesoro machines?? When he saw it had no screen he was sort of turned off. "how do you know when you've got something good" he said. I said "I'll show you". We walked a bit and I waited for a deep round sound. It didn't take long to find it either. It dropped off at nickel and I couldn't raise my coil any more than 2" at best. I said "this ones fairly deep". He said "let me check with mine". He got a hit maybe every four swings over the target form one direction and a hit every swing from 90 degrees. He had to hug the grass however or he would lose it completely. As he did this I "supertuned" the O. when he was done, I was able to swing over the target close to 6" from the ground with a nice round sound. Supertuning allowed me to bring that target much clearer. At a solid 8" down was a very ugly pontiac indian coin with a slot in it? Maybe some sort of keychain?? Nothing special but the outlaw saw it with no problem. I can't speak for how he was setup and don't know much about the atpro. I still have much to learn about the Outlaw too. There is something about the retune button that is mysterious though. I get the whole retune the current threshold and pinpoint, but it does other weird stuff i don't understand. For now i'll keep learning. I am however sick of diggin to china for .22 caliber shells!!

 

[Tee1up]

I think the 8" round is deeper

Have you really been seeing more depth with the 8"?

 

[tvr]

I think "super tune" wasnt the correct term to use here so I edited the Subject line to "power balance" but it didnt work. I was hoping someone would say how to counter or correct the "too positive" consequence of GBing in All-metal Auto and then switching into Disc.

Below is cut and pasted directly from one of Monte's posts. The reason to power balance is that the neutral ground balance setting that is established when ground balancing in all metal may be offset a little when you switch to discrimination mode in some detectors. Power Balancing if done properly, gets you ground balanced to a correct neutral setting when in discriminate mode. In my experience, the more mineralized the ground the more difference a small offset from optimal ground balance makes.

So here it is as Monte wrote it:


#1.. Make sure the manual GB control for All Metal mode is also tied in with the Discriminate mode GB adjustment. Some, like the Cort

 

[MarkCZ]

I think "super tune" wasnt the correct term to use here so I edited the Subject line to "power balance" but it didnt work. I was hoping someone would say how to counter or correct the "too positive" consequence of GBing in All-metal Auto and then switching into Disc.

Below is cut and pasted directly from one of Monte's posts. The reason to power balance is that the neutral ground balance setting that is established when ground balancing in all metal may be offset a little when you switch to discrimination mode in some detectors. Power Balancing if done properly, gets you ground balanced to a correct neutral setting when in discriminate mode. In my experience, the more mineralized the ground the more difference a small offset from optimal ground balance makes.

So here it is as Monte wrote it:


#1.. Make sure the manual GB control for All Metal mode is also tied in with the Discriminate mode GB adjustment. Some, like the Cort

 

[tvr]

Power Balancing and Super Tuning is not the same thing (as I understand it)

Power Balancing is gaining maximum effects of "Ground Balancing"

Super Tuning as I understand is properly ground balancing the machine, then switching to "All Metal Mode" and then adjusting the "Threshold" to Full Throttle.

You are correct.

The notes on power balancing were inserted where I saw that what mojotrout was asking was about correcting ground balance in discrimination mode and not super tuning.

Gunnar's video on tips for tuning the no motion all metal adds insight about ground balancing too. Since I don't have an Outlaw, I am wondering what if anything the retune button does in discriminate mode and can it be used to set it up for the ground in discrimination mode?

Also note in that same video Gunnar shows that he increases depth of detection by tunring up the threshold. Even though he shows it in no motion all metal, it makes me think it affects circuit gain as in "super tuning".

Super tuning the Cibola / Vaquero design causes the detector to lose discrimination ability once you get past a certain point; further than between 2 and 3 o'clock on the threshold position. So if you crank it to max, you find and dig a lot more iron. I don't know what it would do with the Outlaw.

I'm looking forward to even more reports on the Outlaw.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[Idxpro]

Turning up the threshold on the outlaw absolutely mess the disc up. I really just thought that to be normal in a manual gb machine. Again, this is my first manual gb machine. It seems like having the threshold set to high overloads the disc circuit and you def dig alot more junk. Another thing is with the threshold turned down, you can really tell the difference in the roundness of the tone. If i keep the thresh down, i dont really need to thumb the disc to find coins as i can USUALLY tell bythe tone. With hi thresh, it all sounds the same and fools the disc often. Again, this is my first manual gb so this may all be normal.....

 

[tvr]

Idxpro,
Manual ground balance detectors are not all designed the same. The Tejon, in discrimination mode, is not affected by the threshold setting. The Tejon's retune speed in pinpoint is too fast in my opinion; as has been said before, there is no perfect detector.

Thanks for the added information about the threshold. Sounds like you are starting to figure out the Outlaw.
tvr

 

[WV62]

I have the Tejon and ask the same questions in an earlier post and the the answer I got back was, the Tejon can't be super toned, that was done at the factory, but the power balancing can be done on the Tejon. I like the sound of getting some of that big silver, so I am thinking I will make power balancing a standard part of my setup starting this summer.

It is also my understanding the V will benefit from both PBing and the super tone.

Ron in WV

 

[Idxpro]

Im trying Tvr....

 

[SpiritRelic]

For years there have only been certain models that really benefit from supertuning.The Vaquero and Cibola are the current two.Something with certain model circuitry.All the other models supertuning(cutting threshold fully clockwise)has no benefit like the vaquero and Cibola. :-D