How can I tell if my MODE switch on my Sov Elite is working?

[robby4570]

I recently picked up a very used Sovereign Elite. There is some corrosion on all the metal parts, including the switches. Please see my question below the pic's...

I hunt in Disc & Variable with little or no notch/disc at the present time and I am finding a lot of deep clad, no bling yet but that's not the Sov's fault. As an experiment, I did try to disc/notch out items (bottlecaps and pull tabs) and then switch from Disc Mode to All Metal and nothing changes. With Disc and Notch at "0" switching from Disc Mode to All Metal makes no difference either. The manual says "All Metal mode is also the pinpointing mode as the target signal response is fast and sharp" but I see no difference there either.

Is there a problem with my beloved Sov or is it something I am doing wrong. If it's a problem, how do I get it repaired without sending it to Minelab??

 

[badarse]

Hi,

You can't go wrong with a sovereign but yours looks like it was in a salt water environment for quite a bit of its life. There is a distinct change it tone reaction between Disc and AM. Quick and sharp is how all metal should sound. If your does not I would suspect that the switch has seen better days. A very easy repair if you have some soldering skills. The elite has to be totally dismantled to get at the switch.but it's not a difficult task.

Bob

 

[Critterhunter]

WOW! For sure that unit looks like it either sat out in the rain on several occasions or it was splashed with salt water. I bet your inability to switch to all metal mode is due to oxide on that switch. If I remember right the mode switch on the GT will make no connection if it's in one of the three modes on the GT. In other words, the Disc Iron Mask On/Disc Iron Mask Off, and All Metal positions of the one switch...One position breaks any connections in that switch, where as the other two modes require connections of one of two other contacts on the switch.

When no connection is made in the All Metal position control is then turned over to the PP/All Metal Fixed/All Metal Track switch, and whatever position that switch is set for is the mode it will now go into when the Disc Iron Iron Mask On/Disc Iron Mask Off/All Metal switch is I think in it's "no connection position" (from memory). Not sure which configurations the Elite uses for it's switching modes so they are going to be different just based on the difference of the amount of options on the Elite's switches for all that stuff, but it sure sounds like you've got a switch problem due to corrosion on the contact internals of a switch. Refer to a thread link in the Sovereign accessories stick for a pictorial I did on modding the Gt for a remote PP switch to firm all that up, but as said it's going to be different than for the Elite.

Let me ask you this...In Disc mode with variable tone turned on, are you hearing different alert tones for various types of targets or do they all sound the same in pitch to you? If they all sound the same then one of two potential problems here...Either the fixed/tone ID switch is gummed up and you are stuck in fixed tone mode, or (and this is more likely from the sound of it)...Your disc/all metal switch is gummed up and stuck in all metal mode. I think you sound like you are saying that disc or notch doesn't work even in disc on say pull tabs for instance (disc will only go high enough to kill stuff right below a zinc penny, like tabs and such, and not high enough to kill zincs...that is normal).

If you can't disc out tabs and such in disc mode then FOR SURE that mode switch is gummed up and stock in all metal mode, because you also say you can't hear any difference in targets from disc to all metal modes...Or, like I said, if discrimination turned up does work in disc mode but not in all metal mode (it is not supposed to work in all metal mode, nor should the meter ID targets), but you don't hear different tones in disc mode, then it's your tone switch that is not working. Or, third possibility...If discrimination dial works but all metal mode works like disc mode (with tones say) then you are stuck in discrimination mode. Just to confuse you even more, not only could you be stuck in discrimination mode but the tone switch could also be stuck in fixed mode, so everything sounds the same in disc due to the tone switch stuck in fixed, and everything still sounds the same in all metal because the disc switch is also stuck in disc mode and won't switch to all Metal.

Those are all the possible scenarios for you. Up to you to figure out what is what, but for sure you've at least got one switch or possible two stuck in one mode. You need to throw switches and use the above yes/no situations to figure it all out.

You can spray contact cleaner down into the toggle throats. Some people use WD-40, and while that will clean the contacts and protect against further rust, some don't like it for cleaning electrical contacts as it leaves a residue that could collect dirt down the road. But I say risk it, because you want a rust killer and not just a contact cleaner in this situation. I've cleaned sliding POT controls on radios that had static/dead spots in them with WD-40 and they have worked brand new like for years (on the boom box I listen to in my garage doing car repairs).

If a connection isn't rusty I prefer electrical contact cleaner that leaves no residue found at home depot and such in the electricians isle.

One more thing...with that kind of rust on your switches i shutter to think what the circuit board looks like. You need to take that Elite apart and stop any further rust on components before it is too late. In a situation like that if the board looks rusty then you've got to risk it. I'd spray the board with WD-40 or some other cleaner that also has a rust inhibitor in it. You don't want to just use a contact cleaner because it won't stop the rust unless it has a rust inhibitor in it. There may be electronic contact cleaners out there that have a rust inhibitor in them, yet don't leave a residue like WD-40 is said to do. Not leaving a residue isn't as important on an electronic circuit board as it is a switch, because there are no moving contacts to gum up. If you take the Elite apart and don't see any rust or such on the circuit board then I wouldn't spray it at all, as then it looks like only the switches got wet and not the board.

Failing being able to fix a switch with a cleaner, you can replace the switch if you know how to solder. Simple find a switch with the same throws/polls and you are in business. Radio Shack might have the same switch. It doesn't need to be the same size. Some have a smaller base then the ones in my GT for instance, but do the same function and have the same sized screw hole to mount to the face.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you make out. Oh, one more thing. Make sure you check your coil connector and see if it's getting rusty/dirty too. If it is then treat it with the same stuff you spray the switches with.

 

[robby4570]

I think that I am likely stuck in DISC & VARIABLE if anything, I do hear differring tones for differring metals and it does NULL out for iron. I am able to disc and notch out items but have played with these knobs very little at this point (I only have around 40 hours on this machine right now).

The machine lived in Cape Cod the first part of its' life and then moved to PCB Fl. I am sure it has gotten splashed with salt spray and the air here is very salty as well. I have not opened the case up yet and would love to find instructions on how to without breaking anything. I saw one thread where someone had broken a post off of the front panel I believe.

I can't complain, it is working very well but not everything seems to BE working and I'd like to fix up anything that needs fixing up. I have no problem with soldering, having an extensive electronics background... heck I even taught a soldering class in the Air Force at one unit I was with (1827th EIS at Kelly AFB).

Thanks for all your help so far! I'll try a few of the less invasive suggestions first and all the combinations and maybe make a video as well.

And one other thing, the external speaker worked when I first got the MD but has quit working - no biggie for me since I always use HP's - but the HP side of it still works.

 

[Critterhunter]

A few more bits of info. If spraying the switches doesn't fix the problem, now it's time to figure out which switch(es) have a problem. When you have the machine apart, without power to the unit use an ohm meter to check the contacts on each switch between each other. One will be the ground or main lead, while the other(s) will be the connection that is made depending on the position of the switch. The main (or ground) lead should show zero resistance (or very tiny if at all....milliohms...or zero ohms on some meters) between it and the other lead(s) on the switch, depending on which way the switch is thrown. If, though, let's say there are three leads on a switch, and two show contact with each other when the switch is thrown a certain way, but neither of those two shows contact with the other lead when thrown another way, then for sure you have a bad switch. One of the two first leads that show no resistance (or little or zero ohms) between them when thrown a certain way is going to be the main lead, so one of those two should also should contact (little or zero ohms) with the third or fourth lead when the switch is thrown another way. See what I mean? There has to be one main lead or ground lead on any switch, where it should show zero resistance with the other lead when thrown one way, but infinite resistance (no connection) when thrown the other way. All leads will work this way. They all should show contact with the main lead when thrown a certain way, but all will also show no contact at one time or another when the switch is throwing in other positions.

How to know what infinite (no connection) looks like on your ohm meter? Some ohm meters show this different than others. Some will show a infinite sign on the screen, others some other number or symbol. Real easy way to tell. Turn the meter on with it's two leads not touching anything held in the air. Look at the screen. Now you know what no connection or infinite resistance should look like on the screen. Now touch the two leads from the meter to each other. Now you know what zero resistance or very minimal will look like. That is the way two leads should read on the switch when they are making contact with each other. If you see a super high resistance reading from two leads well above that, then while the switch is still making contact between the two leads on the switch, it's such a high resistance due to corrosion that the machine isn't able to switch modes. In other words, you don't need to just see infinite resistance is the switch is bad between two leads when it should show zero or super low resistance, but you also shouldn't be seeing high resistance well beyond the little you might see when touching the two leads of your meter together by themselves in the air.

Also, never have the Sovereign on when taking ohm readings. You can fry your ohm meter if a circuit is energized. A circuit should only be energized when taking volt or amp readings. Never ohms.

Figure I might as well throw this info in here too about fixing POT controls. Same deal with switches. Pots can develop dead spots or areas of high resistance in them. They function by sliding "feelers" across a surface area that looks like a magnet. If your threshold has dead/erratic spots, your volume, or your sensitivity seems to as well, and so on...It could be a bad POT. I've fixed these before on devices. With the machine apart often you can find an access hole to spray contact cleaner into. After doing that move the pot back and fourth several times to clean the "feelers" and surface area they make contact with. If that still doesn't fix it then often pots will come apart if you bend back some tabs on them. Once apart lightly sand the magnet looking surface with plain old white paper, which acts as a very mild abrasive. Then clean that surface and the feelers on the POT's other half that make contact with it with some contact cleaner. I like to use Q-tips for this but use a magnifying glass to make sure you didn't leave any lint behind. Note when putting the POT back together that you don't do that with the feelers over the wire connection rivet type points on the POT. They are never supposed to ride over those. The feelers need to be located so they are going to touch and ride on the black magnet like surface they are supposed to ride on.

Some POTS work by varying resistance (variable resistor), while others work based on other methods, but they all pretty much function physically in the same way. It sounds complicated but it's not. Every easy to take apart and clean. Some have a c-clip on the base of the shaft that you must remove in order to take them apart, and also usually have metal tabs around them to hold the two halves together too.

If the repair fails there is a last resort to try. The feelers might be bent so that they no longer touch the POT's other half's surface area. You can slightly bend those feelers down so they'll make better contact when it's put back together, but only do that ever so slightly as too much can cause the feeler to dig and grind into the surface area too much and quick make the pot not function right anymore.

If you still can't get the POT to work then you need to replace it. Radio Shack or other parts sources will have a replacement if you look around. The POT should have some numbers on it to indicate it's K value and such.

That's all I can add for do-it-yourself simple repairs on a Sovereign that most people can do themselves if the machine is out of warranty. Never take it apart if it's under warranty, but worth the risk if you have no other choice and don't want to pay for somebody to fix it for you.

One more tip...Most electrical problems are not usually due to component failure but rather due to a short from a bad solder connection or a loose/dirty plug connector. If your machine doesn't work right then suspect one of these first. Take it apart and use your finger (safe to do on most 12V DC circuits unless they've got a high capacity capacitor on the board that could really shock the heck out of you, so be careful of that when mucking around with even DC circuits) to wiggle at each part on the board while you have the battery in and the machine turned on, so you'll hear it if it comes back to life. If it does, use a loop or magnifying glass to look at the solder connections on that part, as chances are it's bad and a little re-heating with a soldering iron will fix it right up. Make sure you ground yourself to something before touching the board as you could destroy a part with static electricity. If you are nervous about touching an energized circuit use a wood pop-cycle stick or something to wiggle on things.

Final tip to DIY repairs...if a device won't turn on then first suspect the battery. If the battery is good then suspect the battery contacts or connections that go from it to the circuit board. Check for voltage at the circuit board where the battery leads first connect. On the GT it first goes I think to the on/off switch and not the board. Power there? Check where it goes to the board next. Power there? Then chances are you've got a bad part on the board, a loose solder point, or a loose wire connector.

[size=large]Use any of my tips at your own risk. You could very well get hurt, catch something on fire, or ruin your machine.[/size]

 

[Critterhunter]

If you have tones and you still have tones in all metal mode then you are for sure stuck in disc/tone mode. If the tone switch doesn't work to change to fixed then for sure you're also stuck in fixed tone mode. If the discrimination dial works on tabs and such then that POT is fine too.

If your speaker ain't working then sure sounds like the board inside is getting rusty. Better take the box apart and spray the whole thing down with something non-conductive that will stop rust, like maybe WD-40 or some better contact/electrical cleaner that also has rust inhibiting properties. If you let that thing go it's only a matter of time before it degrades/corrodes enough to destroy the machine completely.

With the internal speaker going south on you it's either the headphone jack's contacts that are gummed up (they work like a switch too that makes contact when the external heap hone plug is removed) or the very wire connections going to the speaker are rusting out. Better get that thing apart and spray the hole board AND ALL the wire connections and such with a rust inhibitor spray/contact cleaner type deal or it's only a matter of time before it dies completely on you! Check your main battery leads on the bottom of the box too. Spray them as well to avoid rust/corrosion.

I posted a bunch of pics of taking the GT control box apart with steps in the modifications forum. It's in a huge thread called something like "Sovereign GT Mods", probably about halfway or towards the end of that thread. Later on somebody gave me less blurry pictures to post in there too, as my camera's focus was somewhat off. I posted step by step steps to take it apart that should be the same for your Elite. I broke off the screw post for the face plate that is under the control board because I didn't want to take the coil connector out in order to remove the circuit board and access that screw for the face plate. When I put it back together I just dabbed the end of that broken post with a little super glue when I was ready to put it together and it's fine. I can always re-break that post if I need to get the face plate off again or something. It didn't hurt the looks of the face plate as the break was in the plastic screw post behind it.

 

[Critterhunter]

I should add...

Never open your Sovereign under warranty, and if you don't know what you are doing you have a very real chance of making things worse.

Something as simple as a static electrical charge from touching something with your hand could ruin an IC chip, though I have to admit I've been rather sloppy about taking precautions with that in the past and never blew an IC on something I was working on. Best to ground yourself first though. Also, opening anything electrical always puts you at risk to electrical shock. Even a simple DC powered camera can have a nasty little high charged capacitor in it for the flash that will bite you beyond belief or even kill you. While low voltage/low amp DC circuits *tend* to be safer than many AC devices, by all means never consider anything ever safe to mess with unless you know exactly what you are doing. I didn't see any high voltage or beefy capacitors in my GT when I had it open that I would think could even give me a slight shock, but by all means don't take my word for it. I'm not an electronics expert so use any of my advice at risk to you, your machine, or burning down your house. .