Art (NWOH)
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n/t
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Hey F.O.D..........could you send me your e-mail address..........have something to forward to you.
- Thread starter Art (NWOH)
- Start date
funkyoldude
New member
n/t
funkyoldude
New member
...I read your discussion with Rick (ND) on the possibility of accidentally creating a parasitic oscillation by modifying your coil cable. Very interesting. Mayhaps some ringing at one of the 17 frequencies or their harmonics. Do you happen to know if the Sovereign transmit signal is a bunch of sine waves summed together, or are the added together? Are they indeed sine waves or are they square waves?
I have been thinking about how the Sovereign is able to transmit 17 frequencies (BBS) simultaneously, and still obtain maximum transfer of energy to the coil. It seems to me that not all frequencies will work at optimum efficiency with all coils, because of the different impedances. On the other hand, I think the main function of BBS is to balance out ground mineralization, not necessarily optimize target response. This may be the reason why the Sovereign is not the best detector for finding small gold, or gold chains.
I don't know. Just some thoughts on a very complicated matter.
fod
I have been thinking about how the Sovereign is able to transmit 17 frequencies (BBS) simultaneously, and still obtain maximum transfer of energy to the coil. It seems to me that not all frequencies will work at optimum efficiency with all coils, because of the different impedances. On the other hand, I think the main function of BBS is to balance out ground mineralization, not necessarily optimize target response. This may be the reason why the Sovereign is not the best detector for finding small gold, or gold chains.
I don't know. Just some thoughts on a very complicated matter.
fod
Art (NWOH)
New member
I hooked up a pickup loop to my old Heathkit modulation scope some time back, and was able to determine that the output is a complex series of pulses. Nothing that resembled sine wave mixture like you would see on a scope hooked to your stereo.
Have no idea how BBS works. Pulse output is harmonic rich kind of signal, so apparently provides many frequencies.
Do not have a working o-scope to verify what I think is happening.
Tried something this morning.
Left the Elite meter on the GT, calibrated with the T-10 coil. Hooked the XS meter into the back of the Elite meter with the S-12 still attatched to the XS meter.
Meter reading jumped WAY up to just below zinc. This is with the additional power requirement of operating 2 meters instead of just one.
Everything seemes to point to a parasitic caused by cutting the coil cable too much.
HH
Have no idea how BBS works. Pulse output is harmonic rich kind of signal, so apparently provides many frequencies.
Do not have a working o-scope to verify what I think is happening.
Tried something this morning.
Left the Elite meter on the GT, calibrated with the T-10 coil. Hooked the XS meter into the back of the Elite meter with the S-12 still attatched to the XS meter.
Meter reading jumped WAY up to just below zinc. This is with the additional power requirement of operating 2 meters instead of just one.
Everything seemes to point to a parasitic caused by cutting the coil cable too much.
HH
Anything is possible, but when you hooked up the extra meter wouldnt this act as a voltage divider in the curcuit even though the meters is hooked up in series giving you some differnt readings on the both meters. I also wonder if the meters are hooked up some of the curcuty can act as a paralell curcuit which too can give differnt reading when you change the coils.
I should have paid more attention is Electronic theory class and I would know for sure. I felt this is why when we cut down the cable on our coils we now have slightly lower ressistence in the cable and which will give us a differnt meter numbers and the reason for the calibration control to put the curcuit back in calibration.
I should have paid more attention is Electronic theory class and I would know for sure. I felt this is why when we cut down the cable on our coils we now have slightly lower ressistence in the cable and which will give us a differnt meter numbers and the reason for the calibration control to put the curcuit back in calibration.
Art (NWOH)
New member
Meter (s) are parallel to supply voltage as are Tx loop and resonating cap, and coil preamp.
All parallel.
TX line runs by all as a parallel supply source. All will recieve same voltage minus line loss at any particular point in the entire ckt. Second meter down the line from the detector can give no ID. ID line from the box is not connected through the meter.
It stops at the ckt brd and does not pass through to the second meter via pin 5.
The second meter only passes signals that are wired through.
Pass through signals are TX, gnd, and RX.
Never felt that cutting down cable length to lower resistance was significant in improving performance. Thought that reduced length reduced noise pickup through the cable and made it easier for the detector to pick out the weak signals.
Think that it is possible to make a modification that makes sense on the surface that is the wrong thing to do.
Ralph has all his coils tested to make sure that they all work the way they should. That's provided they are not modified.
You do something wrong to them, not only do you void the warranty, you can mess them up.
Could happen with any coil.
Spent too much time thinking about "audio" freq thinking, while ignoring possibilities of needing to think about RF freq characteristics. Very dumb on my part.
Just may have the answer as to why some coils require significant calibration adjustment compared to others.
I learned a great deal more about RF and microwave AFTER I got out of school.
How it's supposed to work, and how it really does work are two different things.
Hate to freak you out, but things get strange for obscure reasons.
HH
Art
All parallel.
TX line runs by all as a parallel supply source. All will recieve same voltage minus line loss at any particular point in the entire ckt. Second meter down the line from the detector can give no ID. ID line from the box is not connected through the meter.
It stops at the ckt brd and does not pass through to the second meter via pin 5.
The second meter only passes signals that are wired through.
Pass through signals are TX, gnd, and RX.
Never felt that cutting down cable length to lower resistance was significant in improving performance. Thought that reduced length reduced noise pickup through the cable and made it easier for the detector to pick out the weak signals.
Think that it is possible to make a modification that makes sense on the surface that is the wrong thing to do.
Ralph has all his coils tested to make sure that they all work the way they should. That's provided they are not modified.
You do something wrong to them, not only do you void the warranty, you can mess them up.
Could happen with any coil.
Spent too much time thinking about "audio" freq thinking, while ignoring possibilities of needing to think about RF freq characteristics. Very dumb on my part.
Just may have the answer as to why some coils require significant calibration adjustment compared to others.
I learned a great deal more about RF and microwave AFTER I got out of school.
How it's supposed to work, and how it really does work are two different things.
Hate to freak you out, but things get strange for obscure reasons.
HH
Art
More than I can comprehend as I was just a repairman, but I do know something that you posted and that is "How it's supposed to work, and how it really does work are two different things.
Hate to freak you out, but things get strange for obscure reasons" I have seen this many times over the years and can not explain some of the things that happen, but it does for some odd reason.
When I ask one of my instructors how something worked, he said "very well" ask why it works he said it just did as the engineers design this for us technicains to make it it work.
As long as we can make it work in the end is what counts right Art??
Rick
Hate to freak you out, but things get strange for obscure reasons" I have seen this many times over the years and can not explain some of the things that happen, but it does for some odd reason.
When I ask one of my instructors how something worked, he said "very well" ask why it works he said it just did as the engineers design this for us technicains to make it it work.
As long as we can make it work in the end is what counts right Art??
Rick
Art (NWOH)
New member
Could tell you stories.................
Sounds like your instructors were a lot like some of mine.
Not the ones in electronic engeneering, but the ones in the Air Force thech schools.
Them bozoz didn't know crap.
Learned much on my own about a lot of things..... not a physacist or an engeneer , but do know a bit.
HH
Sounds like your instructors were a lot like some of mine.
Not the ones in electronic engeneering, but the ones in the Air Force thech schools.
Them bozoz didn't know crap.
Learned much on my own about a lot of things..... not a physacist or an engeneer , but do know a bit.
HH