Here's Why You Own A Minelab!

[AgileMJOLNIR]

Here's a pic. of the Meter.

Thank you!

I never even knew about that meter...geesh.
I'm using the 0-180 and of course had the 550 on my Elite. I really like the bar graph pattern. I may have to check one out.

 

[Critterhunter]

Crazyman, how do you like that meter and do you feel it offers any advantages over the normal 180 meter? I would think that maybe you can "see" patterns better on certain targets as they jump around, rather than trying to read numbers as they move to see certain patterns with certain targets?

 

[crazyman]

Critter, I haven't used it enough yet to see how useful it will be for my type of hunting. I'm not a fan of VDI numbers especially on detectors that have a wide discrimination range. Trying to decipher those running numbers in trashy sites with sometimes multiple targets under the coil is not for me. Meters that will bounce from one target to another with a lock or average targets using a bar graph or analog type VDI are easier for me to separate targets. Also I'm not really picky when it comes to digging unless I'm cherry picking. From the couple of times I've used this meter so far in old parks it does ID iron pretty good and I'm working on the iron falses to see if there is a pattern that will be useful. On my Sovereigns It's hard for me to separate zinc penny from silver by just the tones alone when cherry picking for silver but so far this meter nails the shallow zincs dead on.

 

[Critterhunter]

Makes sense to me. Thanks for the info. I can see why you'd want to use that meter and probably would like to try one myself in the future. I'm also curious about that internal meter that people have been using. I think the 4th (decimal) digit could very well prove useful in splitting hairs even further on very close targets, like say a copper penny versus clad dime, silver dime, quarter, silver quarter, etc. I'm having good luck by calibrating my meter to 181 and then just bringing it down to where it barely reads 180 for a clad dime, finding that silver dimes/clad quarters and everything else higher in conductivity will then read 181 at least here and there as I sweep. I also noticed that it's useful for finding multiple coin spills. For instance, two clad times in the same hole will bump it up to 181 here and there due to the higher conductivity of the slightly larger "target". Even without that help, I'm finding that the GT finds me more multi-coin spills than any other machine I've owned thus far thanks to it's separation and less averaging than other machines, regardless of which coil I'm using on my GT.

Since I'm real happy now with my custom GT and the meter mounted on top of the grip I'm not going to go the internal or even external meter wired internally route, but I might build me another external meter that plugs in via the normal coil cable fashion. Reason being I want to play with the numbers in the decimal range to see just how useful that might be for certain things like above.

One thing I need to address is the tuning POT on the stock meter. It's pretty touchy at adjustment and can be a pain to get right where I want it to split hairs on the coin signals. Usually calibrating like I said above means the meter reads 507 when it's "at rest", and it's a handy way to tune it without having to throw a coin on the ground. What I'd like to do is add a second POT along side it with a very low resistance range. I could then tune it with the main POT and then get real precise with the smaller one to get the 181 signal to just drop to 180. It would be much easier to do that way for sure.

 

[Critterhunter]

Ran across this in a DFX forum...

"Now if you're only looking for a rock solid sound and ID then that could also be the problem. The DFX, and pretty much any detector out there, will start loosing the ability to give a solid sound and ID at around 6-7", and even less in bad ground conditions. Experience will teach you how to determine a possible good target that is deep."

I realize there are exceptions to any rule and some do say they get better depth than this with the DFX, but what I find curious is that you never see remarks made like this in the Sovereign/Explorer/Etrac forums. Can't ever remember hearing an owner of one of the big three Minelabs say don't expect good ID or audio at 6 or 7", let alone getting even less in bad ground where Minelabs seem to excel even more. Aren't you glad you know what a Minelab can do, and that "braggin" depth is about double that or more.

I also forgot to mention in the S-5 thread that while air testing I was popping a dime with perfect ID/tone at 7". I came closer with the coil until the GT started giving the perfect ID/tone, which is a more realistic air test than starting close to the coin and moving away. As most say with FBS/BBS machines depth in the ground should be even better than this, while the reverse is true for some machines. What I had to chuckle about was that about 7.5 to 8" on a dime sized target is really pushing it on the QXT Pro or 6000 Pro XL, which I consider deeper than most if not all Whites on coins using the same size coil. Just think, I'm almost (or maybe right at in the ground) the depth of a Whites using a 9.5" concentric coil, and with much better separation, unmasking, and ability to handle ground minerals. That just has to bring a smile to your face. Next time you want to jab at your buddy a little on his Whites throw on an S-5 and show him how you can probably match his depth on the 9.5" on a really deep coin either one of you find before digging.

I'm only "picking on" Whites because I love the company and am real disappointed in how they've left the low frequency line for higher ones, not to mention the lackluster performance of their expensive flagship machines in certain respects. I really wish they'd churn out some 3 to 6khz machines again and something along the lines of the SEF 12x10 and 15x12 coils to max them out in depth. I bet they'd give most other machines a real run for their money on depth when it comes to coins, or at least be respectable in non-mineralized soils.

I used to know how to program in five languages and even I don't want to mess with one of those machines. Not when the results still aren't anything stellar compared to others which are far less hassle to tweak out...

 

[crazyman]

Not as deep as the Minelabs but the 5900/6000 and XLT are the best cherry pickers for silver coins made. I can separate clad from silver with at least 90% accuracy using these detectors but alas in my ground 6 1/2 - 7 inches on a silver dime with them is pushing it. The GT amazes me when it comes to depth in bad ground. So far 8-9 inches on dimes in my dirt haven't been a problem and much deeper than that on the beach.

 

[HaroldILL.]

The best machine out there for cherry picking silver is the E-trac! I can tell silver from clad with the tone's and I.D. number's. Try one crazyman and I'm sure you will agree!

 

[Critterhunter]

Not as deep as the Minelabs but the 5900/6000 and XLT are the best cherry pickers for silver coins made. I can separate clad from silver with at least 90% accuracy using these detectors but alas in my ground 6 1/2 - 7 inches on a silver dime with them is pushing it. The GT amazes me when it comes to depth in bad ground. So far 8-9 inches on dimes in my dirt haven't been a problem and much deeper than that on the beach.

I probably am being a bit too harsh but only because I know Whites can do much better than the effort they've been making with machines these days in performance compared to the competition. Don't get me wrong, the M6 and MXT are great machines, in particular for shallow gold ring or fast clad hunting, but I sure wish they'd make an effort to build a low frequency deep coin shooter in the tradition of their machines of the past. I at least wish somebody would make a DD coil for all those same low frequency machines out there in say the 12" or so range to push them deeper. Only thing available is the Hot Shot, and two brand new ones wouldn't work with my QXT Pro.

I've never owned a 5900 which from what I understand is for the most part a 6000 but with a manual ground balance knob. I always heard many say they preferred that unit for even more precise ground calibration to give the machine just a little more depth. It can be set fairly precisely with a 6000 but it isn't as easy to do.

I've owned a few 6000 Pro Xls. Mainly got rid of them because of the lack of high tones and the slugish meter response which made hunting in trash very tiresome because I had to constantly watch the meter and wait for it to reset for each target. I don't hunt with any discrimination (even iron) when coin shooting so that got old real fast. It would have been a perfect ten in my book had they provided multitones. I realize there is a tone mod for it these days but then I'm back to depth.

A friend has been using a Pro Xl for years and has made a lot of great finds with it. When checking targets in the field it was pretty evenly matched with my QXT Pro in depth (About 7.5" on a silver dime. Maybe 8" if very good soil. A little deeper on quarters.) There were a few times where it looked like my QXT Pro got slightly more depth but that may have been more due to him not balancing right, maxing sensitivity, or running hot rock reject or some discrimination where as I never did.

I really like how the Pro Xl can split hairs on coins fairly easy by just where the needle sits. One of the most accurate machines on the market for that. My friend can call out a silver versus clad dime with very good accuracy. Same with quarters, not to mention the half & dollar. But, for anybody who envies that ability I'll remind you that most machines on the market can't easily identify various coin types. My QXT Pro didn't, but once I learned that machine I got fairly good at knowing just what type of coin it would be.

I'm seeing this same ability on the GT but am still learning how to tell them apart with it. I've got screw caps pegged now by audio and VDI compared to an iffy coin signal, but one thing that is still killing me is being fooled by larger targets at depth. I've got to get a little more experience tracing out things with pinpoint to decide if it's coin sized or not. Often those targets can be identified by a slight "crackle" or "pop" in the audio to indicate it's something large, but they don't always do that for me.

If I wanted to leave Minelab I'd probably look into the T2LTD, F75LTD, or something along those lines from either company. At least they are comparible in depth to the Minelabs in some ground and I really like the look/screen/weight of those units.

 

[Critterhunter]

Harold, is the VDI more stable than it was on the Explorers? I heard Minelab has improved that aspect in certain respects and I think (?) the Etrac offers a ID stabilization function of some sort (forget what it's called). Yea, I did like how I could sort'a tell on my Explorers what the coin would be by VDI numbers, but the bouncy behaviour of the the ID far outweighed any advantage in other areas that it might have had. Even on less than deep targets it always seemed to be all over the place like it couldn't make up it's mind. This is despite sensitivity levels and other adjustments. Always a jumpy machine.

I made a lot of good finds with my Explorers but for various reasons (both mental and physical) they ruined my hunts for me by wearing me out always having to "keep on top" of them to maximize performance. Just a little too finicky and hard to handle for me when I'm just trying to relax and hunt. I would come home feeling like I just plowed a field and took a test on top of it. Oh, I could handle it and max the performance out but it just took all the fun out of my hunts for me. Not that I'm opposed to computerized machines, I just found it a little too much "high maintenance".

I know, every Explorer owner says go by the tones, but I'm not paying that much money for a Tesoro here with no screen. One of my main tools at deciding target worth (not just coins, but rings and other good items) is by just how stable the target ID is. For the way I hunt if you take away that ability then I feel crippled in my hunting style. Now the trash targets go up since I can't use that to eliminate some of them on those days when "dig it all" just isn't my mindset. I really hope they've fixed this on the Etrac, but from what I hear they have botched the coin and ring placement on the screen compared to how it used to line up on the Explorer. At least some say they don't care for the layout as much. I hear they've improved performance in trash over the Explorers.

I need more time on one than the few minutes I had it in my hand in the field to make a decision to buy one as a "backup" to my GT. There are those days when I'm in the mood for a computer screen and it's pretty much an Etrac or like said a F75 or T2 LTD. After all, where else you going to go from a Sovereign without losing too much in the way of performance.

 

[crazyman]

Critter, I don't care for the direction that White's and the other manufacturers have gone the last few years. The need to compete for depth with companies like Minelab has spawned a whole new crop of high frequency, high gain detectors. The problem with them is that the depth increase is only achieved in mild to moderate mineralization. In more mineralized ground they are very erratic in both operation and target ID. To help tame these beasts in more mineralized ground the manufacturers started adding DD coils as accessories and they are now standard on some models or at least available in a package deal. Not long ago DD coils were mostly only associated with the higher frequency gold detectors and now they are fast becoming the standard on general hobby detectors. One other fallacy about these higher frequency coin and jewelry detectors is that they are somehow automatically hotter on gold because of the higher frequency alone. Mineralization, discrimination width and and ability to fine tune the GB plays a bigger role on how well they will hit small jewelry size gold.

 

[goodmore]

Crazyman, It looks like your changing equipment again. That was a nice looking Elite. Want to give a hint to what you got your eye on?

 

[crazyman]

I decided I liked the GT a little bit more so I'm going to be picking up another GT to waterproof or maybe the Excalibur. Haven't decided which yet.

 

[HaroldILL.]

Yes critter hunter the I.D. is more stable than the explorer's As a matter of fact most people with the E-trac goe strickly by number's and don't even use the smart screen.

 

[Critterhunter]

Critter, I don't care for the direction that White's and the other manufacturers have gone the last few years. The need to compete for depth with companies like Minelab has spawned a whole new crop of high frequency, high gain detectors. The problem with them is that the depth increase is only achieved in mild to moderate mineralization. In more mineralized ground they are very erratic in both operation and target ID. To help tame these beasts in more mineralized ground the manufacturers started adding DD coils as accessories and they are now standard on some models or at least available in a package deal. Not long ago DD coils were mostly only associated with the higher frequency gold detectors and now they are fast becoming the standard on general hobby detectors. One other fallacy about these higher frequency coin and jewelry detectors is that they are somehow automatically hotter on gold because of the higher frequency alone. Mineralization, discrimination width and and ability to fine tune the GB plays a bigger role on how well they will hit small jewelry size gold.

Couldn't agree more with the reasons why they are going that route. Some say that higher frequency machines give better target ID, at least to lower conductivity targets, but I've found the reverse to be true for me. Mainly I don't like high frequency machines due to the reflection off most ground minerals costing depth or more eratic behavior, as well as that they don't hit as well on silver and copper to me. Discrimination or at least audio harmonics also seems to suffer.

 

[therover]

Problem is, you gotta know how to adjust the machine to get the maximum depth out of it. I have been using the DFX, as well as Minelabs, in dirt and on the beach for a while now. For the person who wants the best performance outta the box without having to learn lots of settings, the GT is the ticket in a non-waterproof unit. And that is where Minelabs, especially the GT, shine. You don't have to tweak that machine much, if at all.

If you have the time and want to 'get your hands dirty' and experiment with settings, the DFX can hunt with just about any machine. It may not ID as well at depth, but there are other things on it that one can tell if it's a good target or not.

I have been hunting NJ beaches for over 25 years, using almost every top of the line detector out there, and I think the DFX is one of the most underrated salt water beach machines on the market and I have found more gold with it than any other machine I use. But that is me, and that is also based on conditions, sites, etc. Just too many variables to say it's better at getting the gold than the Excal or CZ, or whatever. What I am saying is, it's not mentioned a lot when it comes to a wet salt sand machine, and I think it is pretty damn good.

Can't base it strictly on the machine, but I do know that I can take the DFX away from the wet salt sand running in dual frequency mode and switch it to 15kHz single frequency mode, hit the dry sand and it's a super gold jewelry hunter when set up correctly (especially with the 5.3 inch coil on it). You can even load the Prospecting program, up the pre-amp as the only adjustment, and find small gold ( and lots of foil, tabs, etc.) in the dry sand.

Lastly, I can say that based on my experience, the Explorer/E-Trac series and the Fisher CZ's are better at getting the deep silver than the DFX. But my DFX, based on MY history, is just better at finding gold in the wet sand. It could also have a lot to do with the luck of the draw.

Like I said, you have to know it and learn it.

JC

 

[Critterhunter]

I don't nugget shoot or like to try to look for tiny earrings and very thin chains, which is why I'm glad that my GT doesn't have that kind of very tiny/low conductivity target sensitivity. It would make it too noisy or erratic in my land hunts, requiring a certain degree of discrimination which I don't like to use whenever possible. I dig enough tiny foil and aluminum scrap bits when digging "it all" hoping for gold in say a park. As it is I like to run a notch and avoid most of the tabs in an area to increase my odds. Last thing I want to do is dig tiny little pieces of trash because they were banging hard. But, with this SEF coil I've dug some very tiny stuff at pretty deep depths just to see what it could do. On the other hand, if I wanted better sensitivity for say thin chains I could throw on the S-5 coil and pick up those better as most small coils increase sensitivity to tiny low conductive targets.

I'm always surfing other makes forums just to keep tabs on depth numbers and performance of certain machines. Based on what I've seen a Sovereign with an 8" coil like the CoinSearch can match and even beat a DFX or Vision with a 10" DD. I'd say in general and on average the numbers lean that way, but I'm not saying there aren't exceptions in either case in specific situations. That just doesn't seem right to me in a flagship detector compared to a less expensive one from the competition, and it will get you there with a lot less hassle in terms of settings.

Whites needs to strip most of the functions out of a computer model. Load it with just enough to get max depth and performance like the QXT Pro had (with things like being able to turn off noise reduction) so it isn't been bogged down by software in both setup and performance in the field. That's one of the major complaints I had with the XLT. Same frequency as the QXT. Same coil, but much less performance in trash and not as deep to me, along with a much more floaty ID. Crank the thing up on a low frequency to hammer the silver/copper at depth and throw on a 12" DD. Really my dream Whites would have 3 assignable frequencies. Hunting deep coins? Then say 1.5, 3, and 5khz. Hunting Gold? Then set it up to run 12, 15, and say 22khz or so. It would still be more work than a Minelab which does all that for you all the time giving you the best of both worlds, but it would be better than the static and mismatched frequencies for specific types of hunting that the current flagship Whites have to me.