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Here's my THEORY on MD
- Thread starter awhitster
- Start date
I think you are right - some of the time. Detectorists could very likely have been there. Have you watched the average detectorist; not those of us who live and breathe this stuff, but the bloke who gets a new toy for Xmas?
If the "average" guy is in the majority (and I suspect he is) - then I am sure there is something left behind.
I detected my old house and the good old stuff was in the minority, by a long shot. Yet, no detectorist was there before me, either, as I found a lot of stuff, just little of it old by comparison to the overall number of recovered items. A handful of Wheats, a few silvers and lots of "neaters."
Keep in mind that for plenty of good targets to be lost, plenty of people had to be active, with plenty of good items in their possession. Turn your detector off for a while and just sit and watch people wherever you go. Study them and their movements, where they congregate and how they behave. Try this at a park or ball field and you will get a nice little education.
But, at a house there is a different pattern of behavior. Far fewer people, doing far fewer things, in far fewer places, essentially. You are working a much lower average over time, in that case. Consider that same park, which might have had 100-500 people a weekend for 40 years. Now compare that to a house with two families in it for the same span. Figure where the averages are.
Im NOT saying there isnt anything at old houses. There is, undoubtedly. It remains a constant by which we operate that wherever people have gone, they lose, drop or otherwise shed things, including metallic items. Yet at houses, there has just been less on average going on. Some things are lost, assuredly, and if we are very lucky - hidden, then forgotten.
But something else begins to happen, a new Psychology of Loss, if you will. It goes like this:
On the occasions when the things lost are valuable - both to the original loser and eventually to us, the seekers - someone is going to be looking for them!
Thats my next point. When people lose things, especially valuable items, they DO look for them. Human beings, being pretty clever as a whole, very often turn up the object(s) of their search if they are diligent. I watched a guy with his kids at a swing once. Unkown to me and him, he lost his necklace as one of his shrieking kids grabbed at him in her excitement. He didnt realize it at first, and wandered off behind his scampering tykes. But he was soon back, eye to the ground. He now had himself, his kids and every other kid around looking for it! He found it, too, even though it was in the woodchips by then.
If that holds true for the majority of humans, then it holds true at houses. The downside is that at a house there is far less ground for the searcher to cover and far less concern over where the item was lost... most will have a good idea. I have recovered items for people with ease, merely after retracing their steps with them, methodically.
Again, there are no absolutes, and we know that no matter how hard we ourselves might look for things, they end up gone. At a house it's just that the odds are smaller for ANY loss to occur and the owner is far liklier to find a thing lost, when compared to elsewhere.
In the end, we stand there poised at a site with our high-tech toy... ooops, "investment," sorry...expecting it pay off in some way. Thus, we tend to wish so hard that something excellent is there that we build expectations that may not jibe with the facts.
Too, there are externals like landscaping, trash masking, being in the wrong spot, etc.... which I think should be saved for the next moment of discussion, as I seem to have rambled....
DO hunt house sites. There is something there and you wont know what it is until you swing your coil over the site.
But take each site for what it is, as each place is different
If the "average" guy is in the majority (and I suspect he is) - then I am sure there is something left behind.
I detected my old house and the good old stuff was in the minority, by a long shot. Yet, no detectorist was there before me, either, as I found a lot of stuff, just little of it old by comparison to the overall number of recovered items. A handful of Wheats, a few silvers and lots of "neaters."
Keep in mind that for plenty of good targets to be lost, plenty of people had to be active, with plenty of good items in their possession. Turn your detector off for a while and just sit and watch people wherever you go. Study them and their movements, where they congregate and how they behave. Try this at a park or ball field and you will get a nice little education.
But, at a house there is a different pattern of behavior. Far fewer people, doing far fewer things, in far fewer places, essentially. You are working a much lower average over time, in that case. Consider that same park, which might have had 100-500 people a weekend for 40 years. Now compare that to a house with two families in it for the same span. Figure where the averages are.
Im NOT saying there isnt anything at old houses. There is, undoubtedly. It remains a constant by which we operate that wherever people have gone, they lose, drop or otherwise shed things, including metallic items. Yet at houses, there has just been less on average going on. Some things are lost, assuredly, and if we are very lucky - hidden, then forgotten.
But something else begins to happen, a new Psychology of Loss, if you will. It goes like this:
On the occasions when the things lost are valuable - both to the original loser and eventually to us, the seekers - someone is going to be looking for them!
Thats my next point. When people lose things, especially valuable items, they DO look for them. Human beings, being pretty clever as a whole, very often turn up the object(s) of their search if they are diligent. I watched a guy with his kids at a swing once. Unkown to me and him, he lost his necklace as one of his shrieking kids grabbed at him in her excitement. He didnt realize it at first, and wandered off behind his scampering tykes. But he was soon back, eye to the ground. He now had himself, his kids and every other kid around looking for it! He found it, too, even though it was in the woodchips by then.
If that holds true for the majority of humans, then it holds true at houses. The downside is that at a house there is far less ground for the searcher to cover and far less concern over where the item was lost... most will have a good idea. I have recovered items for people with ease, merely after retracing their steps with them, methodically.
Again, there are no absolutes, and we know that no matter how hard we ourselves might look for things, they end up gone. At a house it's just that the odds are smaller for ANY loss to occur and the owner is far liklier to find a thing lost, when compared to elsewhere.
In the end, we stand there poised at a site with our high-tech toy... ooops, "investment," sorry...expecting it pay off in some way. Thus, we tend to wish so hard that something excellent is there that we build expectations that may not jibe with the facts.
Too, there are externals like landscaping, trash masking, being in the wrong spot, etc.... which I think should be saved for the next moment of discussion, as I seem to have rambled....
DO hunt house sites. There is something there and you wont know what it is until you swing your coil over the site.
But take each site for what it is, as each place is different
Awhister,I've yet to see an area worked completely out,and some of the better silver coins are found after a second or third time through the hunt site.Silver coins give a smaller target than pennies.I would re hunt the yard.
I believe the coins are there, and that there has been either landfill or heavy natural decomposition or whatever.
I live in Oregon and recently got permission to detect a true virgin area, only 15' by 30' but heavilly used. I only picked up up a few newer clad coins, what gives I thought? surely there would be something?
I've now come to believe that IN CERTAIN circumstances coins drop to greater depths than usual. I've dug 20 year old coins at 7" so why not 150 year old at 18"+. The soil here is very loose and slippery, it gets a good rainfall and why should there be a limit to depth where there is a deep layer of topsoil?
I remember once detecting at a large tree that stood by a traveled road for 150 yrs+. I only had a small digger but after I got all I could, I scraped away maybe a foot deep in a 5' sq. area, then I started finding coins from an older period pre 1900. I think the leaves falling had created so much mulch over the years that covered whatever was lying there.
I guess you have to think like an archeoligist, peeling away layers to get at older history, only on a smaller scale,
Anyways thats what I think, they're still there, you just have to be creative in going about getting at them.
I live in Oregon and recently got permission to detect a true virgin area, only 15' by 30' but heavilly used. I only picked up up a few newer clad coins, what gives I thought? surely there would be something?
I've now come to believe that IN CERTAIN circumstances coins drop to greater depths than usual. I've dug 20 year old coins at 7" so why not 150 year old at 18"+. The soil here is very loose and slippery, it gets a good rainfall and why should there be a limit to depth where there is a deep layer of topsoil?
I remember once detecting at a large tree that stood by a traveled road for 150 yrs+. I only had a small digger but after I got all I could, I scraped away maybe a foot deep in a 5' sq. area, then I started finding coins from an older period pre 1900. I think the leaves falling had created so much mulch over the years that covered whatever was lying there.
I guess you have to think like an archeoligist, peeling away layers to get at older history, only on a smaller scale,
Anyways thats what I think, they're still there, you just have to be creative in going about getting at them.
Well said Dave. I've come to the conclusion that if/when anything significant comes my way, it'll ONLY be when most "trash" is gone by me! I too live in an 1800 home, with few families moving in/out. But with acreage comes "human dump sites" and landscaping over the years too. I do believe I will find something neat when all junk in a grided area is gone for the most part. It took years for people to throw out, relandscape, etc., so I'm in it for the long haul and the experience it brings. As long as my back holds out and my garbage man has a sense of humour!
Leslie(nova scotia)
Well-known member
From the land ofthe Bluenose..good words. Being alive is the first step to being able to bend over and dig. Best of the season to you me son!
well heres my input to this subject.. IN the early 1900s a penny got you alot more then it will now,The same gos for all other coins of that era,BUT Because of that very fact there were fewer coins carried around so fewer coins were lost,kids today get ten dollars for allowance and think its a rip off,Kids in the 1920- 50s got 50 cents and that was to cut lawns
all day so less money less old coins
all day so less money less old coins
In the 1800's money was somewhat of a rarity. People bartered a lot. Poor people didn't have or didn't have much of the valuable stuff. An attorney told me the probate folders all full of IOU's and Paid in fulls for amounts of $5 and $10 up until the end of the depression. The buying power of cash was so much in proportion to what we have now-adays it would be SEARCHED for along with rings, necklces, etc. I went to a historical mansion with a guy I had met on the Internet and he had retrieved over 140 coins there and not much modern stuff. The owner let him bring friends also. The people who originally lived there probably entertained frequently, so there was far more traffic than just the family. As far as depth goes, here where I live we have clay soil and even lead doesn't sink far here. 30 miles from here is the area known as the "Great Black Swamp". It's black sandy soil and we have found the old beavertail pulltabs at a measured 7". You would need a backhoe to dig some coins there if you could get superior depth out of your unit.
HH
HH
Neil in West Jersey
New member
Too many people before me, I am giving up on the abandoned ones. I am going to start asking permission on ones that are lived in.
I think all the answers are pretty correct.
I also kinda think coins can be buried by dead
vegatation over the years and get deeper vs
the surface. But this probably happens in some
areas, but not much others. But I also agree
that coins were much more valuable back in the
old days, and those that were lost were probably
found to a larger extent. IE: a dime today is
fairly useless on it's own, but in 1950 it was
probably worth two cokes from a machine.. Seems
I remember nickle coke machines around that time..
A dime in 1880 was probably seriously worth looking
for.
In comparison, the house I'm at now, it was built
in 1959, and always had lots of people around the
yards doing this and that. Change was semi valuable,
but not anything most would lose sleep over, unless
a wad of quarters or whatever. I would spend time to
look for a dropped quarter, but not waste the energy
for pennies.
In searching this yard, it had many coins. "over 500
found at this point, and more are still there".
But the vast majority were pennies. The amounts
of clad lost were quite small in comparison. Which
kinda makes sense if more time is spent looking for it.
But also the activity at one house could lead it to have
way more coins than say a house next door. It's all
up to the people, how careless with change they were,
how often outside, etc, etc..
This house always had plenty of children running around,
besides the adults, and lots of change was lost.
There is a spot in the backyard where I think a lot
of lawnchairs were used. Change must have always fallen
out of crunched up pants, as much was found in that
area.
For modern houses, and maybe even going back a few years,
the grass next to driveways is a good spot. People would
lose change out of their pockets when climbing in and out
of cars. Little things like that is what I consider when
trying to decide the best spots to first detect. I try
to think how people would have lived at that house
as far as movement, recreation, etc.
If you had a house that was owned by people that never
went outside, or were tight with the change, there
would not be much to find. So it's quite possible
many old houses are just plain bare of coins.
But I still like detecting any old house, as often it's
the other stuff found that is more interesting to me.
I won't complain about finding old silver though..
MK
I also kinda think coins can be buried by dead
vegatation over the years and get deeper vs
the surface. But this probably happens in some
areas, but not much others. But I also agree
that coins were much more valuable back in the
old days, and those that were lost were probably
found to a larger extent. IE: a dime today is
fairly useless on it's own, but in 1950 it was
probably worth two cokes from a machine.. Seems
I remember nickle coke machines around that time..
A dime in 1880 was probably seriously worth looking
for.
In comparison, the house I'm at now, it was built
in 1959, and always had lots of people around the
yards doing this and that. Change was semi valuable,
but not anything most would lose sleep over, unless
a wad of quarters or whatever. I would spend time to
look for a dropped quarter, but not waste the energy
for pennies.
In searching this yard, it had many coins. "over 500
found at this point, and more are still there".
But the vast majority were pennies. The amounts
of clad lost were quite small in comparison. Which
kinda makes sense if more time is spent looking for it.
But also the activity at one house could lead it to have
way more coins than say a house next door. It's all
up to the people, how careless with change they were,
how often outside, etc, etc..
This house always had plenty of children running around,
besides the adults, and lots of change was lost.
There is a spot in the backyard where I think a lot
of lawnchairs were used. Change must have always fallen
out of crunched up pants, as much was found in that
area.
For modern houses, and maybe even going back a few years,
the grass next to driveways is a good spot. People would
lose change out of their pockets when climbing in and out
of cars. Little things like that is what I consider when
trying to decide the best spots to first detect. I try
to think how people would have lived at that house
as far as movement, recreation, etc.
If you had a house that was owned by people that never
went outside, or were tight with the change, there
would not be much to find. So it's quite possible
many old houses are just plain bare of coins.
But I still like detecting any old house, as often it's
the other stuff found that is more interesting to me.
I won't complain about finding old silver though..
MK
In response to the idea that money was worth more and therefore more guarded, Hmmm well you can say that is counterbalanced by the fact that fewer people used banks, no credit cards-carried large sums of cash, there was no abstract payroll checks until the 30s people recieved hard coin in envelopes on payday, also many things cost under a buck you would go shop for dinner and and beef was maybe 33c a lb. and the total was under a $1 so the coin was used like our dollar it was everywhere more common than paper. Everone had a coin jar in the house usually ful for emergencies or saving for something important.
Yes folks were more frugal back then and careful, but it was a time of failing banks, epedemics no healthcare people had to look out for themselves kept what they had clos by where they could keep an eye on it,and hard coin was perferred over paper always.
I read somewheres that of all the coins minted in the US since it began less than 10% can be accounted for.
Yes folks were more frugal back then and careful, but it was a time of failing banks, epedemics no healthcare people had to look out for themselves kept what they had clos by where they could keep an eye on it,and hard coin was perferred over paper always.
I read somewheres that of all the coins minted in the US since it began less than 10% can be accounted for.
That statistic is encouraging, but H. Glenn Carson said it well:
(sic) "...There is far more land to detect on than any of us can cover in a lifetime."
Coins are out there, but the factors that impact your ability to find them are many. You play the odds, which can be daunting when you stack them up.
(sic) "...There is far more land to detect on than any of us can cover in a lifetime."
Coins are out there, but the factors that impact your ability to find them are many. You play the odds, which can be daunting when you stack them up.
[quote Sundance]Awhister,I've yet to see an area worked completely out,and some of the better silver coins are found after a second or third time through the hunt site. Silver coins give a smaller target than pennies.I would re hunt the yard.[/quote]Good point Sundance. there is a Mens Club in town that's been used since the 1940's. I've been in this town since 1958 and have seen countless pro MD'ers (they are the ones with headphones on in my book) work it over the years. I been there a number of times. I've found a few wheaties and finally found a 1946 Dime after my 10th time there. Re-detect areas, HECK YEA. that reminds me, it's about time to go over my yard again. Maybe I can find a friend of the 1893 Indian Head Penny that I found in it already (after owning the Ace only 2 days).
Awhister,I flip a lot of detectors to support this hobby.I try these units in areas that I've hunted and have great finds.Its not the new detector,its just the area is more clean,and I have a better idea where the most coins where lost.
The couple were DINKS (double income, no kids) so kids never lost anything. The owners had a maid and paid someone to landscape and cut the grass. They kept a perfect manicured lawn, and didn't want to ruin it with parties, where the perfect yard would become "less perfect".
Of course, my backyard is probably a gold mine, as I have 4 kids, we barbecue a lot, have a trampoline and to top it all off I have a test garden with old coins buried.
<center>
Of course, my backyard is probably a gold mine, as I have 4 kids, we barbecue a lot, have a trampoline and to top it all off I have a test garden with old coins buried.
<center>
I had a friend who metal detected around the old family house (100yrs+). He found a Minnie ball and a wheatie. He told his grandma that he did not find any money around the old home site. She replied, "Well, Son- In my day when you dropped money, you stayed on the ground till you came back up with it!"