Help Req ID this item

[holey dollar]

Hi Guys
Hope all is well with you all, posted a photo of a couple of old Relics found, first one found today its an old steel chisel, when being used they snaped the end off the chisel, so i reckon they just tossed it to the side,
I am very interested in the second item, what is it ? and what was it used for ?. Found three of these Copper Strips at 2x separate convict depot in West Australia, the strip is made of copper about 16 inches long, and about 3mm across, the middle bit of the strip is whats of interest to me, its rounded, this was rounded when made not bent over to be rounded, its not an handle for a pot etc etc, copper is very soft and would be bent easy/and its not strong, middle rounded piece about 5.5 inches long, found 2 x strips at the side of Ronans well in WA, bye the way both strips were in the ground stood upright. From about 1850- 1880 i think ???.

Any ideas Guys
Thanks
Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[dahut]

Grounding strip?

 

[sqwaby]

Maybe parts to an electric fence?

 

[Bill in Texas]

Are you sure the old rusted one is a chisel, or could it be a railroad spike? Bill in Texas

 

[holey dollar]

Thanks guys
Reckon its a small chisel, not a railroad spike, copper strips found 3x total at convict depot WA, cant figure what the strips were used for,

thanks Dave
Holey Dollar

 

[tabdog]

I don't have a clue about tha copper strip.

But I found 3 old hand made chissels from tha 1800's.

Odd. They were in a line and evenly spaced, like they

had just split their last log and lay there for 150 years

before Tabdog discovered them.

Don't cha just love it.....?

Interesting,

Tabdog

 

[holey dollar]

Hay Tab
Your Chisels are they wood working chisels(very thin at the ends would of been sharp ?) or are they like what i found steel, solid, for what i think was used on stone work.
I cant help it Tab but are they damaged been thrown away ? or have they been left by mistake/ or did someone have to leave fast ?, Any Indians/ Bandits Etc in your area in the past ?
There you go Tab you know now im nuts,

See ya
Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[tabdog]

[size=medium]They are hand made out of materials on hand.

I believe I have found parts to a steam powered

planner/matcher type wood working machine at

tha same site.

Here's a pic of more stuff found there, with tha

chisels and an old 1800's rotating box iron.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog[/size]

 

[holey dollar]

Hey Tab
Top finds, looks like the chisels were masonry ones to me, for cleaning out masonry/ Doors, Windows etc before knocking in the wood wedges for fixing them, Take a look at the one with a good bend in it, he as hit the chisel not head first and put a fair bend in it, why would you leave it bent ?All the guy had to do was put the bent chisel on a wood block and straighten it with the hammer he hit it with.
Maybe the bent chisel was used as a wedge for splitting stone, any stone pieces at the site ? The other items found do you put them or most of them in the same time frame as the chisels ?, cant make them out on the photo,
What does the item bottom centre of the photo have wrote on it, cant make it out, looks like a pouch ?Looks like ODNOMIS, second thoughts is this the hammer head that hit the chisels ?Are you thinking small workshop ?.

See ya
Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[tabdog]

Hay Holly Dollar,

You said:

the chisels were masonry ones to me, for cleaning out masonry/ Doors,
Windows etc before knocking in the wood wedges for fixing them,

I doubt that these people did a lot of rock work. No evidence anyone ever
split any stone there. They built some with stones. But they didn't cut them
much.

Tha evidence around tha site suggest wood working. As in making logs and
planks for building houses and other structures.

Those chisels were left while being used. They were left in tha spot where
they split their last log. Tha chisel was bent from use and never got straitened
out because they were lost at that spot.

Even dumb Arkies knew how to straiten out a bent chisel...lol

The time frame of tha finds is from tha mid to late 1800's. With some earlier stuff.

This site is tha oldest site for white settlers in this area. I found a few things
that may go back before 1850.

Tha thing that looks like a pouch is an old rotating box iron. The writing on
it says " ECONOMIST "

There's tha design patin,

Here's my Relic Hound,

[size=medium][/size]

Here's my relic Arkie hood ornament,

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

 

[holey dollar]

Hey Tab
Thanks for the Photos and info, and a very cool dog.
Funny when you look at old Photos you look at the items as if you found them, were you hunt, Very sad to say the finds are yours and not mine, wish i could come across shall we say more interesting finds like yours were i hunt.
Anyway regards the chisels in WA the main timber is Jarrah, you can not screw into Jarrah timber, you have to drill it first with a Pilot hole, they Reckon here Jarrah timber is on Par with English Oak for hardness of the Timber, don't think and i could be wrong but i doubt if the chisels would do the job splitting Jarrah, i have a pot belly stove, and use a Block splitter to split the timber,(Like a very sharp sledge hammer)
Reckon you know were I'm going with this one, if I've not sent you to sleep yet, what type of timber is in the area were the chisels were found, and how hard is it ??,
Before my Dad died we went round to a friends of my Dads, yes he had just got his Jarrah for burning, no joke he was Using a Chisel and Lump hammer to split the wood, reckon he would still be at it now if we had left him to it.
But in your area timber could be soft, i could be way off the mark, looking at the photos you have 3 x chisels all different lengths so in this case one size does not fit all, looks like part of a very old tool kit, Maybe the owner of the Property lived alone/ and died, or was sold off, new owners not interested in the tools you have found, you will hate me Tab for this, cant see the tools being lost, who could loose 3 x chisels ? and all the other items you found, if you found most items in the same general area you have to assume all items were lost ??? cant see that, Take care Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[tabdog]

Well Dave,

You have opened a can of worms here....lol

That's OK, I really don't mind.

Here goes. A Tabdog Arkie History lesson.
I never met anyone who knows about tha
history of this spot.

The Arkansas River runs right through cental
Arkansas. It's north of tha state capital city
of Little Rock.

When settlers came to central AR, they did
not get off at Little Rock. They got off about
here.

There are several varieties of oak. There was
hickory, elm, pine, cedar, gum, cotton wood,
sypress, and on and on. Too many to name.

Here's trees that exist there now. The original
forest has been logged for over 170 years.

There is a place not far from here where I found
most of the artifacts.

In that place, they had a steam powered wood
planning machine. for making planks and beams
with flat sides. Before that they used adzs to
flatten logs. As time went buy, lots of activity
went on there. most of tha artifacts were trash.
Those chisels are hand made with materials on
hand. Thats why the don't look store bought, and
that's why they don't look alike.

Every body that could, had a black smith shop.

When tha chisels lost their worth to tha person
using them, they were simply abandoned. Maybe
tha old guy said, " that's tha last log I'm ever gonna
split ", and then he split. Left tha chisels and they
were forgotton. I don't know. That's tha mystery of
metal detectin.

Notice tha iron is broken. It was discarded. Tha
machine parts are from an old machine that out
live it's usefulness.

At that point, it becomes scrap or trash. No reason
to think that many of these items were lost.

That was life in tha Arkie olden days.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

 

[holey dollar]

Tab
Thanks for the info,i have noticed one thing Tab/or maybe a couple of things.The photos of were the first settlers came onshore from the River, look at those two large rock boulders in your photo, how did those Rock boulders get there ??? Are there in the area Large rock outcrops that these large boulders come from ???.Look at those Rocks can you see cut marks on them etc,In the Photo you can see marks at the bottom of one rock, wonder are the rocks granite. In West Australia history does not hit you in the face, its there but you have to look for it. Ruins of an old convict depot/Well were i go detecting, i found the area were the stone was taken, cut marks in the stone etc etc.At the end of the day i prefer to look at the very old sites,so i can be a pain in the arse at times.What i thought after we last talked, wonder if the spot you found those chisels was abandoned in the civil war is that possible or not ??. So i presume the Trees were cut moved up/Down stream by river, like in WA then replant when most of the original timber is gone. Is the river saltwater or fresh ??or part of each,god don't ya love this hobby, i go to a site its got a very large well, and a small well within 5 mts of the large well, neither wells ever run dry,people come and go, the odd one with a metal detector, no one gives a crap, The question that i cant answer is why have we got two wells ? I'm thinking the small well not the large well was sunk first in 1830/by Gov stirling, Larger well more capacity later req,
Thanks Tab see ya
Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[shredder763]

Could the wire strips be part of a lightning rod assembly???????

 

[tabdog]

n/t

 

[tabdog]

Hay Dave,

you asked,

look at those two large rock boulders in your photo,
how did those Rock boulders get there ???

Tha river exposed tha lime stone in places. Close to
tha river would be one of tha more common places to
see this. I have looked and can find no markes of any
kind on tha bolders. That is a unique sight, and one
that early travlers may have seen.

I can not tell you too much about this particular place
because it is unknown. I don't want ta let tha news out
about just where it is.

But there is a place close where rock has been mined
sense tha mid 1800's. It is called Big Rock, but it has
been mined until it is more like a big hole than a big
rock.

My sight has no evidence of stone cutting. Only the
normal use of stones to make foundations, fireplaces,
rock walls, Ect. They were not stone cutters. If they
were they went down tha river ta do it. I promise Dave.

Then you said,

What i thought after we last talked, wonder if the spot
you found those chisels was abandoned in the civil war
is that possible or not ??.

This spot was a hot spot until travelers were able to
land on tha Little Rock side of tha river. That was about
1820. Then it slowed down. But it had been established
as a community. Most were farmers living in tha low
flat areas on tha north side of tha river. But the little area
I'm showing here is not farm land. It was a community
only because of the early river access.

I think there were some people living in there til about
tha early 1900's. Probably tha depression saw tha last
occupants of tha area for a while.

Tha river is not salty. I seem to detect a trace of salt,
but I think it is concidered fresh water.

Trees have been logged almost everywhere. Virgin forest
are a thing of tha past, except for a few places that were
saved early on. None in Arkie Land and most states.

And Dave, yes I really do love this hobby.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

 

[holey dollar]

Hi shredder 763,
The copper strips are only a couple of mm wide, but moulded in the middle of the strip round. I date them from about 1850+ give or take, 3 x strips in total found at 2 x convict depot in West Australia. Apart from a lot of the Convicts/ or should i say Stonemasons from England who by the way could and did build anything wanted at the time, the word is basic, copper in those days was costly, no holes in any of the 3 x strips to fix the strip etc, Maybe the strips may be off one of the first battery's made, funny if the strips were in an acid mixture of any sort you would expect a bit of corrosion on the strips, none on these strips had any corrosion or pitting on them,
2x of the strips were next to a well, the other strip about 100 mts from a well, i am a spark by trade reckon the strips are way to small for lightning rods etc, all you need for a rod is Copper/ aluminium/even steel large tube rods belted in the ground with cable fixed to rod. In WA at the moment they still use copper rods, or lightning strips about 1 inch wide. So maybe srips were not used a lot on the first battery's made who knows ?

Thanks Shredder 763
Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[holey dollar]

Thanks Tab, Your the best mate, i ask way too many Questions, went out today only for a couple of hours , found 1 x Centerfire shot shell, same size as was posted and we talked about.
One thing reckon to stop a man/Convict etc the shell is way too lite, bird shot/Snake shot, even if you could fit 2 or 3 00 buckshot in the case it would be a very light round to stop a man, still have not let the local gunsmith have a look at the cases found/ all the Large cases are all the same size by the way.

Thanks Tab
Take care Dave/Holey Dollar