Help- Omega masking when iron and coin are parallel

[eliisawolf]

Hi-

This is my first post, but I've learned a ton reading this forum over the last couple of weeks. I have been detecting the land around my home (VT), concentrating on an area of 20 acres +/- with a settlement history going back to late 1700s. Needless to say, there is a lot of iron in the ground (square nails, oxen shoes, rusted junk, etc). I have not been successful finding any silver, but have found my share of clad as well as some other assorted non-ferrous stuff, but nothing earth shattering. I am using the 11 inch DD. I have tended to search in D2 with varying sensitivity, sometimes discriminating at 16, sometimes at 1. I've been frustrated with the iron, but have been digging just about anything repeatable, even if a solid one way signal (most have been nails).

Here is my big concern, and I'm not sure if its 1) me, 2) the Omega, 3) all detectors:

Using a few of the heavily oxidized nails I've found, as well as some clad coins, I set up a test in a patch of ground free from any signals. I made sure I understood the detector's reaction to each item individually before trying a side-by-side test. When I placed a coin (any) within a few inches of a heavily rusted nail and swept the coil from top to bottom or bottom to top (coin/nail, nail/coin)the detector would give a signal for both nail and coin (coin only if I discriminated the iron). The IDs were not accurate, but it was always enough to tell me "dig this one". However, if I swept the coil in a "side to side" direction where coin and nail were parallel (in other words, passing over both at approximately the same time), I got all nail and NOTHING for the coin. I changed sensitivity, tone, frequency, you name it, but for the entire length of the coil, I am getting only ferrous signals without a hint of anything else present. Needless to say, I was very surprised, and I feel this has likely had a huge impact in my finds (or lack thereof) over the past week (probably a full 24 hours of detecting).

I'm frustrated and doubting the machine at this point, but obviously don't want to overreact without soliciting some seasoned opinions. Any and all advice is appreciated.

Many thanks.

 

[pasttom]

Much left unsaid... First let me say I think we all experienced much the same feelings initially. It sounds like you are new to all this and this is your first machine. If that is wrong please forgive my starting at that point.
You may have a under performing machine, but not likely. Air testing and the tests you have done can pretty much eliminate that. Though you did not give any details.
I can share some things that should help with what you are doing. Check the writing of Tom Dankowski (NASA Tom) on iron and metal detecting. He has done lots of research in this area and is a respected expert.
1) Make sure you understand ground balancing (Ground Grab). Also how to read and interpret the indicator in the lower left corner showing hi/lo balance bars.
2) Focus on coil to ground minimum height, perfectly parallel and even moderate swing speed. The Omega is very good, but needs all the help you can give it to increase performance.
3) Maximize Gain (left knob). Highest stable setting- full clockwise pin if possible.
4) Keep notes on settings, locations and finds. Patterns will be easier to see if you do. Strategize best (most likely) locations and super cover when you make finds.
5) Learn several ways to improve target IDing. 90 degree cris-crossing, 90 degree coil tipping, switching to Auto Tune, etc.
6) Go plaid. Hunt an area going North-South then the same area East-West, did that bring any new hits?

OK, enough for now.

Again I apologize if you are not a novice. We all need to go over basics once in awhile.
Good fortune and HH!
Tom

 

[TerraDigger]

Here's how my Omega behaves.

U.S. dime one inch from a 2 inch long rusty nail - disc on 1. The dime will be detected provided I am swinging lateral accross the nail. If swinging the length of the nail, dime is not detected.
Same set-up as above with rusty bottlecap instead of nail. Dime will not be detected. Like Monte said......the bottlecap (iron) is larger than the dime.

Now if I do above test with a U.S. quarter instead of a dime next to the bottlecap.....then the quarter is detected. It's about the same size as the bottlecap. However, as the distance of the coil from the quarter/bottlecap increases, then the quarter becomes less detectable. More than if the quarter was by itself. The iron interferes with the quarter detection as coil distance increases.
This test was done with 11" DD coil.

 

[aSaSSino]

It seems that we have same problems with iron nails and coins... I'll keep reading this thread, too

 

[jim tn]

In heavy trash/iron, give the 5" coil a try. On sites that have the potential for silver and turn of the century and older kinds of coins that hold a good bit of trash, I work most solid sounding targets from various directions. Often times a good target that is masked from one swing direction will give a good sounding tic from another. I have dug enough co-located targets with the Omega to know that it does a very good job of un-masking. There are, though, going to be some good targets that are just "flat out" masked and the only way to get them is to dig everything. HH jim tn

 

[eliisawolf]

Pastor Tom- Thanks for the detailed response. I am not a newbie, but not exactly a grizzled veteran either - no offense taken. I generally follow your suggestions 1-5, but will obviously have to do a better job with #6 to help account for the abundance of iron. I have read some of NASA Tom's posts, but will research some more, for sure.

Thanks to everyone else for the feedback. It would appear that what I'm experiencing is common. I did try another test with some smaller nails and results were better- in some instances I was getting two good signals even when iron/coin were parallel. However, with a larger nail, especial when swinging the "length of the nail" as TerraDigger described, I still get no signal.

Jim_TN- Do you find success digging targets with solid one way signals? In my experience so far with the Omega, all of my "one way" digs have turned up iron. Often I lose the "good" signal once I lift the plug from the ground.

Perhaps the amount of iron on the property is unusually high? Is it common to have the iron grunt on virtually every swing on some of these old rural properties? Unfortunately, I do not yet have the 5" coil, which I'm sure would help.

I really do appreciate the feedback folks- thank you.

 

[jim tn]

I don't have outstanding success with one way hits, but on those with some depth enough turn out good to continue digging them. For almost all my coin hunting I use 3 and 4 tones and when hunting among iron/trash, I listen carefully for the mid and higher tone chirps and tics among the grunts. Yes, it is not all that uncommon on site with the age you are hunting to have iron nail hits on nearly every swing. Good luck. HH jim tn

 

[eliisawolf]

One last question if anyone is still looking at this thread ...

Would I be better suited using a G2 on such an iron filled site? I'm confident from what I've read that the Omega will be outstanding on most other types of sites, but I will be primarily hunting in this area for the remainder of the summer and want to get as much out of it as I can. I do know that there are Omega vs G2 threads, but I was hoping to get some insight from those that have read my particular "plight" here. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Monte]

One last question if anyone is still looking at this thread ...

The bulk of my serious detecting finds me working mostly iron plagued sites. Nails are the biggest offenders and the best way to counter them is by using the least Discrimination you can tolerate; using the smallest search coil you can when in a heavily littered site; making sure the sweep speed is not too fast.

You want to work slow and methodically and, yes, just in case you ask, I also recover many one-way responses. Can they be junk? Certainly, but they can also be a hint of a response from a partially masked good target.

As for selecting between the Omega and G2, that can be a real head-scratcher. If you have both models (like I enjoy) then you can keep the little round 5" DD coil mounted on the G2 and then use the stock elliptical 10" Concentric coil on the Omega. However, if you have the Omega but do not have the 5" DD, then I'd suggest adding that killer coil to your arsenal first. Be sure to get a spare lower rod to make coil changes quick when in the field.

If I were limited to have only 1 detector instead of all the models I have, and I wanted ample visual information but good trash condition performance, I'd just hang on to the Omega w/stock coil and 5" DD.

Monte

 

[eliisawolf]

Thank you Monte- very useful info. I will consider purchasing the 5" coil with the spare lower.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

n/t

 

[onbrake]

There is an iron mask setup for the O8 on youtube.He hunts this way and hits coins in iron mask areas.I tried it today and got three deep silver's with his set up.You notch out everything but iron and leave zink and above on.Works great.Most my hits were in the 6-8 inch ranged and this was measured.I had disc at 0 and sens turned up to 99.I could only stand the heat for about 45 min.May I add this place has been hunted very often and I didn't expect much.

 

[TerraDigger]

Have to agree with Monte. 5" coils are the killer. Whether a Omega, T2 or a F75. Also have noticed that the Omega does quite well in dealing with co-located targets if a slow sweep speed is used. Monte & I live in high mineralization areas, and the slower sweep speed works in our type of soil.

Onbrake.........I think I know the video you speak of.............but could you post the link for the benefit of others.

 

[onbrake]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT6D6O9__sk[/video] Here is the link hope it works.

 

[onbrake]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSP5Cqzw0HE[/video]You have to watch part 2 amazing stuff last target I dont think any other detector would have found it.I had one today with some trash and nails next to it almost did not dig but got a silver dime.I had a buddy who was using a explorer and he said his would not pick it up at all.

 

[TerraDigger]

Thanks OnBrake...........those are the the videos by Dirtfisher. I love his suprise when the silver shows up. Classic....

Whoops...........I forgot........OnBrake...........congrats on the silver. What coil were you using?