Help! Need an ergonomic scoop!

[tidewalker2]

[size=medium]For the last 30 tears, I've been using a short-handled scoop that was made for me by a friend with a welder. It worked well then. It worked well 20 years ago. It worked well 10 years ago. Now I'm 64 with a bad back and two hips in need of some titanium and I find that I need something else. Something a little more senior friendly. Any suggestions? I have no intention of retiring from metal detecting. As a matter of fact, on the way to the Cemetery, when that time arrives, I intend to ask the driver to stop at the beach for a few hours. HH Ed[/size]



Old treasure hunters never die! They just go to an undetected place.

 

[Gerry]

Ed, I was in a similar position 60 years, I bought a well made scoop from KellyCo after talking with a sales person who recommended the scoop. The scoop arrived, I went out to try it and low and behold the scoop was not quite big enough and the handle was about six inches to short. Please don't get me wrong the scoop was well made but not for me from an ergonomic point of view. Called Kellyco about the above situation and am not able to return scoop for an upgraded version ie longer handle and bigger scoop from the same manufacturer.
I guess the long and the short of it is "don't buy unless you have seen the scoop in action and actually tried it". I have since taken the scoop to a metal fabricator, explained my needs and he is making me a scoop. Yes its a lot of money but I will be getting what I need, its a shame I could not try my new scoop with a return policy or at least be able to upgrade it within the same manufacture.

Gerry

 

[kered]

At the top of the page click on the reileys scoops logo and you will find all maner of well made scoops to suit most places/styles, maybe they have a similar one to yours but with a longer handle, you could also give them a ring and explain your needs and ask which one would suit you best,
Some companies are geared to big sales results rather than to customer satisfaction, i think you'll find the difference giving both the companies mentioned in this thread a ring and decide which is which for yourself.

You don't mention the type f hunting you do but from your coments i would say dry sand coin shooting,The long pull me type basket scoops work excelent and are much less effort than the push ones for shallow clad(thats why horses pulled carts etc rather than push), by the time you get the basket up its usually empty and not much shaking is involved, in the wet i would say the push ones as you can use your foot when needed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Don't know if this photo shows it too clearly (click on photo to see full sizea). Here's what I did with a long-handled stainless steel scoop: I used old hip-mount parts, kind of like what parapalegics use for their walker-canes, and fashioned my scoop into a single-hand operation, where I don't even need to hardly bend over anymore. You will need to click on the image/photo to "see photo full size", in order to get a closer look at my sand scoop set up.

 

[ferdware]

Hello,
I have been working on a new ergonomic scoop. Designed to distribute the weight through the forearm rather than the wrist. I am working on a patent at the moment. I will post a picture of it in a few days.

FERD

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey Ferd, did you see the pix of mine? (click on the image to enlarge). If yours resembles or mimic's mine in any way, I'll be expecting royalty payments on my copyrights

I want to add, that these must be measured to each person's dimensions/height. If the distance between the arm/wrist cup to the pistol grip for your hand, is either too close, or two far away, it's uncomfortable and causes pains, chaffing, etc... And if the length to the scoop is too long, you'll end up supporting the weight all day long carrying it around, and you'll have to stick it way too far out in front of you, as you begin each dig. And the angle of the basket compared to the pole is very important. I had to experiment several times, having to re-do the weld a few times to get it *just* right. And the first few times a person tries to use this, who is used to short-handled scoops, it will be awkward. But after you've forced yourself to get used to it after a hunt or two, you will NEVER go back to short-handled non-wrist-mounted scoops again

Stainless steel is very heavy, so the over-all weight of the thing, when done, can start to get very heavy. So what I did was to drill additional holes in the factory-made stainless steel scoop I bought. The way it came (not sure about other manufacturers) is that the entire duck-bill portion of the leading edge, was solid. So I had additional holes drilled in that part, as well as the support brackets that hold the basket (as they were plenty over-kill strong, and the added holes did not compromise strength).

If a person does this with non-stainless steel, weight won't be an issue. But of course, it'll be a rust-bucket and start to bend, etc... with repeated uses in salt water. Stainless steel lasts forever in the wet salt, and is strong.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

a final comment: to drill additional holes in a stainless steel basket duck-bill and other parts, is not easy. It takes a special drill bit to cut through stainless steel, not standard drill bits. Those type drill bits can be expensive. So I had to take mine to a machine shop here in town, and it took them a good hour just to add the holes (as it is awkward shaped, and difficult for them to put into a vice-way of holding it, etc....). Shop labor costs were on the order of over $100.

To buy the starting scoop, you don't need to buy the long handled variety. You can start with a short-handled one. Then just visit a medical supply store in your town, and pick up one of those walking cane parapalegic devices. It will have the arm-cup already there, and a very strong cane/rod. You can often-time find these in Goodwill stores, etc.... used. Just attach it to your short-handled scoop (which will take some customizing and metal working, measuring, etc....)

 

[ferdware]

Hi Tom,

I think my design is different enough to follow through with. I will find out soon enough if it is or isnt

I was laughing to myself as I read your reply. NOT laughing at you. I was laughing because I had gone through most of the same problems in building and rebuilding mine.

I am currently only worried about finalizing the handle. I cut the scoop off another one that I had and welded it to my handle.

I made five different ones to get it right. But I think I have it now.

I do appreciate that you offered advice on something that took you alot of time to figure out yourself.
Have you had any success or problems with marketing yours?

The first scoop I built was for surf and hardpan. It is in the modification forum if you would like to check it out.

Thanks again. I will post a pic of it soon.

FERD

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ferd, I thought about marketing mine, but never have done it. A person would basically have to start with ready-made already-marketed scoops, and then do these mod's. The infrastructure with making lots of them, just wouldn't pan out, for the demand. Probably the best way to go about it, would be for the person's already making the scoops (perhaps from the raw materials stage even) to have them manufacture them. But then you have to ask yourself: If they were quite sellable, the sandscoop companies that already exist, wouldnt' be dummies, and would simply start meeting that demand themselves, if they were that much in demand. Thus I suppose someone would have to research patents and such? I have seen no mass-marketed scoop of the pistol-grip wrist-mounted long handle type like you see in my pix. The only other one I've ever seen, was a guy who also made his own, like mine (which is where I got the idea, haha). So perhaps it's an idea ripe to be patented? If so, you have my blessings. As I say though, I'll want royalty payments for the use of my idea, haha

A problem in trying to market them, is going to be the bugaboo that they are VERY height/dimension specific. Unlike a short-handled type, or long handled type (with no pistol grip and wrist-mount), you can see those have no bearing on the height and dimension of a person. So you'd almost literally need to have the arm length, and over-all height, of the person you are selling them too, in my opinion. I have loaned my spare to an expert beach hunting buddy of mine, and he didn't like it. That's when it became clear to me, that the average person who is used to years with a short-handled one, usually doesn't take the time to train himself to a new way of digging. It takes some getting used to, so I'm not sure how marketable it would be, for the average person.

 

[kered]

Tom, can you tell me how you get the goodies out of the scoop, seems to me pretty dificult with both arms tethered, i'm not trying to be funny just i can't see the need for the armclip on the scoop or i'm missing somethething, it seams almost imposible to dig with either as the shaft needs to be sloped well forward to get the basket at an angle to dig

 

[OldBeechnut]

One of the best ergonomic scoops every made, works the best when your in calm waters...Lakes, Bays, But..on the wet & dry sand or ruff waters would not recommend, designed 30 plus years ago, MIller Scoop {hoop scoop}

 

[Tom_in_CA]

kered, good questions. It's the type questions which are best answered by showing it, as it's hard to "put into print". But I'll try: Ok, look at the pix (click to enlarge). See how I've got my hand on that pistol grip? When I actually get ready to dig, I flip the scoop around, so that my grip is now back-wards, the basket is now facing down. If you can mentally do that, in the picture, you can see that it now becomes the perfect angle for downward swings.

For shallow targets though, I find that's not necessary (as they'll be within the first scoop of the surface, for instance). I just scrape sideways, using my knee for a little "umph" pressure to push it through the sand.

And once I've got the sand shook out, and the target in the basket, to answer your question of how I get it out of the basket: you can see that if put the basket and rod perpendicular to me (parrallel the ground, at my waist level), you can see that my elbow will not be impeeded, as it's perfectly measured (again measurements important) to allow me to bend my elbow, which brings the basket up to my waist height, on the opposite side of my body. I just momentarily lean my machine against my left hip, reach in the basket with my momentarily free hand, and get the target. I know this is hard to describe. Perhaps I should make a youtube video someday of this

 

[ferdware]

That is one cool scoop. It looks like it would be easy to work.

FERD

 

[kered]

Cheers Tom, a bit clearer now, especially if it works for you thats the important thing, theres always more than one way to skin a cat as they say.