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Having trouble Understanding the TTF
- Thread starter Aponte
- Start date
Make certain you are in Two Tone with Ferrous sounds. Everything below the 17 Ferrous line or X-axis line will be a LOW sound, everything above it will have a HIGH sound. That's it. It is a good tool to use when:
1. You're going to want to dig ALL non-ferrous metal such as an beach or old house site.
2. You are getting a lot of nulling and afraid you might be missing something due to the amount of iron in the ground and you're willing to live with all the LOW sounds and pick out the higher sounds...then go off your Co. numbers to see if it fits in the coin zones.
It works best with a fairly wide open screen, otherwise your just back to the "nulling" again.
Hope this helps.
NebTrac
1. You're going to want to dig ALL non-ferrous metal such as an beach or old house site.
2. You are getting a lot of nulling and afraid you might be missing something due to the amount of iron in the ground and you're willing to live with all the LOW sounds and pick out the higher sounds...then go off your Co. numbers to see if it fits in the coin zones.
It works best with a fairly wide open screen, otherwise your just back to the "nulling" again.
Hope this helps.
NebTrac
Johnnyanglo
Active member
Some thoughts:
If the detector is nulling due to iron contamination (nails), then switch from conductive to TTF. There are two tones - low and high. If the Ferrous signal is between 17-35 you get low tone, if 16 - 01 then high. Just dig the high tones.Not recommended to use TTF if there is lots of non-ferrous trash that responds between 01-25Fe, constant high tones on trash is not helpful. Know that if you've disc out the display (black) then you will not receive any tone or TID for that area. So, make sure you pick the right pattern for the type of hunting you're planning (coin, relic, beach, gold rings).
If you used TTC (two-tone conductive) then nails would create high tones if the Co (conductive) is 26-50 and low tone for 01-25 Co. The problem here is that nails and other iron junk are often Co > 26, which will be distracting with constant high tones. Indeed, the silver coin at 12-47 will sound the same as the iron nail with a 30-32 (Fe-Co). Remember, TTC responds to the Conductive value, so both 47 and 32 are high tones (above 25).
So, use TTF and when you get a signal switch to "all metal" QuickMask screen (open) and check the target location. Iron will drive the cursor to the bottom right. If the target bounces around it may be deep iron (hard to get good TID) or possibly there is mixed targets (non-ferrous in close vicinity to ferrous). Know that iron can drive the signal beyond 35Fe around to 01-03Fe and you get quips of high tone mixed with low grunts. If you center using PinPoint and dig, if the target appears to be off-center (from the PP) it is a nail. The high tone was likely from the nail tip (careful digging - they're very sharp and rusty). The tip presents the eddy current resistive signal while the rest of the iron nail presents a reactive signal (grunt). Confusing for any detector. There are only two ways the detector responds to a target - eddy current generation with its own secondary EM field and/or magnetic pole alignment and relaxation within the iron surface structure (which can produce an overwhelming reactive signal). When these two are mixed, the detector sweep will favor one then the other response (with iron) and the TID will jump about. Coins do not contain magnetic materials (well, Canadian coins do) and respond with a nice strong resistive signal (eddies). Unless they're deep, then the soil reactive signal can overpower the weak/deep coin signal and you have that jumpy TID again. The E-Trac actually does better than most on the deep coins - especially the silver. This is partly due to the way it processes and compares X and R signals and because it is a very low freq machine (despite the advertised harmonics) which responds very well to good conductors. Downside, it won't find low conductors like most fine gold chains - or small earing studs, they don't exist at the E-trac op frequency. But it will find gold/silver rings and silver/copper coins very deep - which is its main strength. So keep at it.
Also, the E-trac will have difficulty registering non-ferrous if there is iron (nails) within the E-M field. Small coils reduce the footprint and help, as does switching to Trash Density High, which helps reject stronger ferrous signals in favor of the better non-ferrous signal. You could leave this ON all the time (it improves the TID too).
Another help, If targets are shallow, is to use Recover Fast ON, it will truncate the signal so the non-ferrous high tone can get through the iron chatter. It does tend to screw-up the TID display somewhat and you could miss weak/deep non-ferrous targets due to the slight truncated chirp they are making.
Recovery Deep ON combats the loss of tone with weak/deep targets by amplifying them. But with more filters in use you'll need to slow waaay down and listen for that quick high-tone amongst the iron grunts. If there are many deep non-ferrous targets in the ground then Recovery Deep is best left OFF. Otherwise, with it ON the filters tend to blend multiple non-ferrous signals. The tone will be stronger but smoothed out and the TID will be more erratic. Also, use GROUND DIFFICULT as the default setting unless you are on the beach or in very mild soil.
What else? Set Threshold Level to around 16, just audible. Threshold Pitch between 5 and 10. Sens to Auto +3 (can use Manual too but if you go too high the detector will false. You'll know this is occurring when you set it down and it is sounding off on nothing. But Manual Sens above about 24 improves the sensitivity of the detector greatly - use it if you can. Back down the Manual setting or switch to Auto if you are getting high tones on iron targets (nails) - the extra sensitivity is not worth the hassle of false high tones on iron. Definitely use Manual above 24 on the beach).
Vol Gain makes deep/weak target signals as loud as closer surface signals. If too high then you lose the ability to distinguish target depth by audio (yes there is a depth gauge). Max is 30, so run around 24 to 27. Too much Vol Gain can cause nearby targets to overload the audio and can cause the TID numbers to be slow in updating (they hold too long).
Don't run Noise Cancel until you've made all the other adjustments - its the last thing you do. You can compare the channel picked by cancelling with the coil on the ground and off - see how it reacts. Try to use Channel 12 when on Beaches and and Channel 1 in-land hunting, though the jury is out on this.
Remember to circle the target to get different angles on the target response. If it is grunt/high tone, try and get the strongest signal centered, then try pinpoint. If the pinpoint's strongest signal drifts off to the side (not aligned with Disc'd signal), it is probably is a horizontal nail. Careful here, for in pinpoint the strongest signal will take over (such as an adjacent target) which may not be the target you are investigating. If there is coin next to a nail, sweeping lengthwise to the nail will null the signal and TID but possibly sweeping 90 degrees off will pick up the coin (maybe). You must circle the target and attack from multiple angles to find those masked coins, and do it slowly. In pinpoint mode or QuickMask you can sometimes hear a double blip on close elongated iron - coins can double hit when on their side too but will produce a more stable TID and cleaner high tone (if alone). Bottle caps (iron) in QuickMask will sometimes give a High tone going one direction and a Low tone sweeping the other (L-R vs. R-L). If it is High-Low it is probably junk but may be a coin co-located. Watch the depth meter - iffy high tones are worth investigating if they are beyond 6" (that is where the old coins often are).
If the detector is nulling due to iron contamination (nails), then switch from conductive to TTF. There are two tones - low and high. If the Ferrous signal is between 17-35 you get low tone, if 16 - 01 then high. Just dig the high tones.Not recommended to use TTF if there is lots of non-ferrous trash that responds between 01-25Fe, constant high tones on trash is not helpful. Know that if you've disc out the display (black) then you will not receive any tone or TID for that area. So, make sure you pick the right pattern for the type of hunting you're planning (coin, relic, beach, gold rings).
If you used TTC (two-tone conductive) then nails would create high tones if the Co (conductive) is 26-50 and low tone for 01-25 Co. The problem here is that nails and other iron junk are often Co > 26, which will be distracting with constant high tones. Indeed, the silver coin at 12-47 will sound the same as the iron nail with a 30-32 (Fe-Co). Remember, TTC responds to the Conductive value, so both 47 and 32 are high tones (above 25).
So, use TTF and when you get a signal switch to "all metal" QuickMask screen (open) and check the target location. Iron will drive the cursor to the bottom right. If the target bounces around it may be deep iron (hard to get good TID) or possibly there is mixed targets (non-ferrous in close vicinity to ferrous). Know that iron can drive the signal beyond 35Fe around to 01-03Fe and you get quips of high tone mixed with low grunts. If you center using PinPoint and dig, if the target appears to be off-center (from the PP) it is a nail. The high tone was likely from the nail tip (careful digging - they're very sharp and rusty). The tip presents the eddy current resistive signal while the rest of the iron nail presents a reactive signal (grunt). Confusing for any detector. There are only two ways the detector responds to a target - eddy current generation with its own secondary EM field and/or magnetic pole alignment and relaxation within the iron surface structure (which can produce an overwhelming reactive signal). When these two are mixed, the detector sweep will favor one then the other response (with iron) and the TID will jump about. Coins do not contain magnetic materials (well, Canadian coins do) and respond with a nice strong resistive signal (eddies). Unless they're deep, then the soil reactive signal can overpower the weak/deep coin signal and you have that jumpy TID again. The E-Trac actually does better than most on the deep coins - especially the silver. This is partly due to the way it processes and compares X and R signals and because it is a very low freq machine (despite the advertised harmonics) which responds very well to good conductors. Downside, it won't find low conductors like most fine gold chains - or small earing studs, they don't exist at the E-trac op frequency. But it will find gold/silver rings and silver/copper coins very deep - which is its main strength. So keep at it.
Also, the E-trac will have difficulty registering non-ferrous if there is iron (nails) within the E-M field. Small coils reduce the footprint and help, as does switching to Trash Density High, which helps reject stronger ferrous signals in favor of the better non-ferrous signal. You could leave this ON all the time (it improves the TID too).
Another help, If targets are shallow, is to use Recover Fast ON, it will truncate the signal so the non-ferrous high tone can get through the iron chatter. It does tend to screw-up the TID display somewhat and you could miss weak/deep non-ferrous targets due to the slight truncated chirp they are making.
Recovery Deep ON combats the loss of tone with weak/deep targets by amplifying them. But with more filters in use you'll need to slow waaay down and listen for that quick high-tone amongst the iron grunts. If there are many deep non-ferrous targets in the ground then Recovery Deep is best left OFF. Otherwise, with it ON the filters tend to blend multiple non-ferrous signals. The tone will be stronger but smoothed out and the TID will be more erratic. Also, use GROUND DIFFICULT as the default setting unless you are on the beach or in very mild soil.
What else? Set Threshold Level to around 16, just audible. Threshold Pitch between 5 and 10. Sens to Auto +3 (can use Manual too but if you go too high the detector will false. You'll know this is occurring when you set it down and it is sounding off on nothing. But Manual Sens above about 24 improves the sensitivity of the detector greatly - use it if you can. Back down the Manual setting or switch to Auto if you are getting high tones on iron targets (nails) - the extra sensitivity is not worth the hassle of false high tones on iron. Definitely use Manual above 24 on the beach).
Vol Gain makes deep/weak target signals as loud as closer surface signals. If too high then you lose the ability to distinguish target depth by audio (yes there is a depth gauge). Max is 30, so run around 24 to 27. Too much Vol Gain can cause nearby targets to overload the audio and can cause the TID numbers to be slow in updating (they hold too long).
Don't run Noise Cancel until you've made all the other adjustments - its the last thing you do. You can compare the channel picked by cancelling with the coil on the ground and off - see how it reacts. Try to use Channel 12 when on Beaches and and Channel 1 in-land hunting, though the jury is out on this.
Remember to circle the target to get different angles on the target response. If it is grunt/high tone, try and get the strongest signal centered, then try pinpoint. If the pinpoint's strongest signal drifts off to the side (not aligned with Disc'd signal), it is probably is a horizontal nail. Careful here, for in pinpoint the strongest signal will take over (such as an adjacent target) which may not be the target you are investigating. If there is coin next to a nail, sweeping lengthwise to the nail will null the signal and TID but possibly sweeping 90 degrees off will pick up the coin (maybe). You must circle the target and attack from multiple angles to find those masked coins, and do it slowly. In pinpoint mode or QuickMask you can sometimes hear a double blip on close elongated iron - coins can double hit when on their side too but will produce a more stable TID and cleaner high tone (if alone). Bottle caps (iron) in QuickMask will sometimes give a High tone going one direction and a Low tone sweeping the other (L-R vs. R-L). If it is High-Low it is probably junk but may be a coin co-located. Watch the depth meter - iffy high tones are worth investigating if they are beyond 6" (that is where the old coins often are).
Here are links to a couple posts I made regarding TTF, on Minelab's website.
E-TRAC - Two Tone Ferrous... Unlocking the "mystery" - Part 1
http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/e-trac-two-tone-ferrous-unlocking-the-mystery-part-1
E-TRAC - Two Tone Ferrous
E-TRAC - Two Tone Ferrous... Unlocking the "mystery" - Part 1
http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/e-trac-two-tone-ferrous-unlocking-the-mystery-part-1
E-TRAC - Two Tone Ferrous
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
I am one of the odd ones... I don't like TTF myself. I just use a modified coins program and slow way way down in trash.
This may be fine at an iron infested park or yard, this will NOT work on the field sites I bunt where the house was tore down, burnt, and the field has been plowed for 75-100 yrs. in these cases...my ONLY option is using a small coil, TTF and moving about 5 seconds per swing. I have tried all kinds of things and this is the ONLY way to get goodies on these sites.Big Boys Hobbies said:
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
Goes4ever said:
Agreed Goes4ever! You created a great program!
I didn't say it didn't work. It works very very well. Just said I don't like it. My way works for me, your TTF works for 99.99% of everyone else. I told you I am odd! lol
In fact I point customers to your program often.
Great advice from everyone - I've used TTF in heavily iron infested areas and love it - you have to get used to the constant bombardment of iron grunts, but it will pick out the good stuff that other machines have missed. It's a lot harder to use when there is a lot of conductive trash around - but I've found that turning the volume gain down to about 17 helps to hear the softer, deeper good targets audibly.
rewmarshall
New member
i have been using two tone for a while and i wasnt doing well with it i am hunting sites with a ton of iron and a buddy of mine tried my detector and noticed i had it on long response so it was a constant low hum becouse of all the iron i turned it off it worked much better for me and i wanted to add my buddy i detect with is using a wot coil in ghost towns i told him there is no way your going to find anything in all this iron he proved me wrong he is doing great with it it blows my mind he says he will get a small signal and then hone in on it with the center strip of the coil at an old house he found three time the amount of coins as i did using the stock coil at about the same depth we bolth use two tone and love it