Has anybody tried planting "Surf Salt?"

[harvdog42]

Hello all,

I hunt the wet sand between the water line and the dry sand primarily, so the following experiment really only applies to wet sand hunting.

About ten years ago I made a little mold to cast lead rings. I made the mold to cast rings that I considered to be of "average" size, weight and shape. Then I threw about 200 of them out in the surf all across one beach I hunt pretty heavy which is Seal Beach in S. Ca. In the month following that "planting" I found about four of those rings in the wet sand which meant they had been swept up there by wave action or whatever. Since that first month, I have never found another one of those lead rings.

This last summer I tried the same experiment but since I couldn't find my mold, I cut up a 3/4" copper tubing water pipe into "rings" of varying widths from about 1/16" to 1/4". I'm a machinist by trade so this was fairly easy for me to do. Again I threw about 200 of these new copper "rings' out into the surf all across the beach at a distance from shore where most people swim. I have only found one of those copper rings since that "planting."

The fact that I have found so very few of my planted rings surprises me. I have probably found close to hundred rings on that beach of varying degrees of shape, worth and weight since that first planting ten years ago...and I have probably found a dozen rings on that beach since my planting this last summer.

What conclusions can I draw from this experiment?

What I think is...there is more stuff out there than we can imagine but only a very tiny percentage of it is within detector range at any given time.

Has anybody ever tried this experiment before? What results did you get?

Harvdog

 

[brobox]

a bunch of ticked off other beach hunters that have been finding those bogus rings you made

 

[DrJoeprime]

I've just finished talking with the California EPA. They said that purposeful discarding of lead and copper is a serious offense of EPA's rules. They will contact Find's Treasure Forum to locate this offender.

Yikes, Joe

 

[Bence]

I could see this comming.

 

[Tony]

n/t

 

[DrJoeprime]

Sorry Tony, that's also not allowed. Illegal dumping of gold.


HH Joe.

 

[Tony]

n/t

 

[harvdog42]

I can see that my ideas and input are not too welcome here...so I'll just bow out.

Have fun.

James Harvey
Author: Machine Shop Trade Secrets

 

[Tony]

James,

Not at all......I find your experiment most interesting. It tells us a lot about the dynamics of oceans.
I think some of us were adding just a bit of humor into the topic but it certainly wasn't mocking what you did, well at least not from me.

Could the copper "rings" have corroded or have been worn down to nothing (not rusted as ferrous/iron).....many of our old copper Australian coins that were lost in the saltwater are so thin that you can easily fold them in half.
Copper is a soft metal, will corrode eventually (old copper water pipes turn green just in fresh water) and are subject to the constant forces of the sea.

As for the lead rings......hmmmmm, this one is strange. I would have thought that they would last for a long time in the ocean. It is possible that they are well beyond the reach of detectors but if you're finding rings then some of the lead ones should be turning up (assuming you have reached the hardpan)? Finding the rings may have been recent losses and these haven't worked their way down to maybe where the leads rings are sitting?

When was the last time a major storm cut away most of the lower beach?
I guess you would have had many in the past 10 years. Seriously big storms can rip away huge areas of lower beach and depending on timings with high tides, all of this sand and everything in it can be taken a good distance out to sea and may never be recovered?

I enjoyed your post......I apologise if my "200 gold rings" was misinterpreted the wrong way.

Regards,
Tony

 

[king-ghidorah]

n/t

 

[DrJoeprime]

James,

That's actually an interesting idea. I do detect the wet sand of Seal Beach also since about 2 months now with an older Surfmaster PI+. I haven't encountered any of your "rings" yet. How are they salted? I imagine about the pier north and south? My experience with Seal has been from summer of 2007 but mostly in the dry sand. (If you threw those 200 rings into the dry sand...well I would REALLY call the EPA)

Intuitively, I'd expect it very rare to have a ring travel shoreward. Gold, Silver as well as copper and lead would tend to go deeper into the sand until encountering a rocky or muddy bottom. This coming just from the difference in specific gravity of sand to those metals. When a storm and rough seas strip away some of the covering sand then we might have a chance of recovery. Well, that's my humble opinion anyway. Does anybody have more info?

HH Joe

 

[Bernie]

Interesting idea... I wonder how many other guys are detecting on that beach and how many of the rings were found by others. Maybe you could conduct your experiment in a little better controlled section of beach and let us all know your results.

 

[JoeSWFLA]

I wish it was researched even farther than it was.Movement of metals in the sand
and sea is of great interest to me.I have known people who have tied a string on
a ring and tossed it in the surf to see how it moved.I think the string and float
might taint the results.The author never said if he waded out to different levels
to see if they went seaward.Keep experimenting and post the results.I like
it.HH Joe

 

[bdahunter]

I agree completely, Joe. Any surf hunter will tell you that to be successful takes more than luck, it takes skill too. A scientific approach is another technique to be used to get more loot in your scoop.

JMHO,

BDA

 

[Narthoniel]

This is an excellent expriment, and I like the research you are doing. My question is this:

You said that you only hunt the wet sand at low tide, and that you threw the rings into the water during low tide. Have you tried throwing rings into the water during High tide? It is possible that while some of the rings will travel in with sand and water currents, but most would likely go down first I would think.

It is difficult to scientifically master the beach. There are so many variable factors that affect the way sand and water move. Tides, winds, wave intervals, currents, seasons, and who knows what else. Depending on how these and any ther factors are affecting the beach at the time of the expiriment would affect the results.

Anthony

 

[JoeSWFLA]

There is a lot of gold still out there hidden under the sand.The question is where, and
does it concentrate in certain wave or tidal areas under the sand.Kind of like when
certain holes open up and you find a few pieces of gold in one area.Whoever finds
where the gold goes to die(like old elephants),could prosper rather well.Just a
thought(and wish).HH Joe

 

[ziphius]

harvdog42, I applaud and appreciate your willingness to experiment and hope you jump back in on this post! Notwithstanding the lead/copper introduction into the environment issue. One efficient way to conduct this kind of experiment would be to create tags with a reward offered for their return. Just like they do in ocean sport fisheries. The material would have to be something other than lead or copper, but you could create, say, aluminum tags, like the ones you can customize in pet stores. Each tag could be numbered and say something like "METAL DETECTING STUDY: $10 REWARD FOR RETURN. CALL 555-2222." In biology, we call this a "mark-recapture" study. That would give you a better chance of determining what percentage of your study tags are found by other detectorists. Of course, there is the matter of coming up with the reward money.......

 

[therover]

I feel just the attempt to try and do this for researching is amazing. Then, to try and document your findings and come up with quanatative results is just as amazing. Good job Harvdog.

My question would be, did you try to document the weather/conditions each time you found one of the rings. It could be possible that you would need a nice storm to uncover some of them. Also, what detectors were used...did you use your PI ?

Nice experiment.

JC

 

[bdahunter]

I've felt for a long time that most of the gold we find is found in windows to the majority of the targets. The Lane and the Mine being the main source of those windows. Finding a bigger window would really increase the number of finds.

Cheers,

BDA