Happy New Year and FAST/DEEP

[Anonymous]

We often see the debate as to how Fast and Deep should be set. I have looked into this question and will list some considerations. When the coil is moved over the soil there is at any specific instant in time a volume of soil illuminated. If we think of that volume of soil as a bucket of soil matrix that we scoop up, throw on a table, sift through the material that includes iron minerals, contamination, good and rejected targets, then sweep the soil off the end of the table while extracting the good targets we have some idea of how the circuits work. The table is only so wide and long so will hold an amount of soil and targets that we can examine. If we throw to much dirt on the table to fast then it we cannot shift through the material properly. Some soil will fall off the table and some good targets will be covered by trash. We wnat to have a good speed of putting soil on the table, sorthing through it for good targets and sweeping the rejected tarsh and probed soil off the table.
The Explorer has a detection window and buffers that hold the volume of soil that the microprocessor sifts through looking for good targets. There is an optimum speed at which we load data into the circuits, shift through the data and then discard that data and lode up with fresh data. We control that data by how fast we sweep the coil and how we have skilled we are in using the detector and the settings. We can sweep the coil to fast and we can sweep the coil to slow. All of know there is a best sweep speed that gives us the best hit on a target.
The data we examine has some very small bits of material that are hard to see. Deep helps us to see the material like a magnifying glass. It increases the intensity by placing emphasis on the small target. This is an audio function so small pieces of material sound louder. It hurts nothng to keep it on all the time but there is one drawback. The circuits cannot tell a small piece of material close to the surface from a large target deep in the soil. A small piece of aluminum, very tiny, will have the sound increased just as the larger deep target. This can cause tick sounds in the audio from the surface to more shallow targets which further adds to the number of tones and sounds to deal with. This can be a problem for new users that are trying to get use to the Explorer. Also, in heavy trash where there is a lot of small bits of trash this can also be a bother. Also, the more bits of trash we amplify the more we need to reject if we are in discrimination so the more the threshold nulls and the more tones we need to deal with. The only thing I don't like about DEEP ON is the constant small tick sounds in heavy trash. They will sound just like a deep coin but once you get use to them then can be passed over unless the constant ticks sounds are a bother.
FAST is an internal method of adjusting how quickly the circuits recover after a piece of trash material is rejected by the threshold going silent. Fast interacts with how fast we sweep the coil. At IM-16 it makes no difference where FAST is set. In heavy trash areas in discrimination it can be of value in that the threshold is reset quicker after trash is rejected. It would seem that the best thing would be to leave it on all the time and I agree if one becomes proficient at adjusting the sweep speed depending on the amount of trash encountered.
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">However, on ultra deep target the threshold can be reset if a piece of trash is detected close to a good old deep coil so fast that you can miss the sound of the faint target</span>. <STRONG>FAST is intended to be used in heavy trash but as with Deep is up to the user.</STRONG>
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">The bottom line is that FAST/DEEP setting is not going to find deep coins no matter what the combination is.</span> If they are both ON but I have the Audio Gain low or Volume low or sensitivity lower than it should be or have those setting so high that the detector is unstable then that will far out weigh and setting of FAST/DEEP. <STRONG>This is a major reason why I think the worst advice I see is a few people that suggest they never change setting or should any user. That to me indicates a real lack of understanding of how the detector works.</STRONG>
The best advice I have see is right in the Owners Manual. If one follows the suggestions offered and works into advanced use then in the long run a lot of good finds are going to be made. It is not a case of always use IM at some setting but rather the best setting for the individual and hunting conditions. There is a place where the machine talks to the users and changes can be made to clarify that conversation. We can make fine adjustments of to do an even better job of detecting with a great detector.
Happy New Year and let me make one last suggesting. Let

 

[Anonymous]

First I hope we all have a great 2005 relative health happiness and a few nice goodies in our pouch.
Heres my opinion as I hunt deep silver..Always use fast and deep on as it works for me. Opinions are varied but here goes...Deep is just that and must be correlated with our sensitivity to maintain a stable unit, adding fast lets us hit a deep target next to trash that other units may miss.Many feel adding fast to deep when hunting deep coins costs us depth and the lock on is not as good..As in everything tradeoffs exist. Naturally if hunting in an extremely trashy area fast is a must, but depth may suffer. Explorer is a strange beast in that it works well for many with different and varied settings and if we ask some of our top people for settings would see many and varied ones that work for each individual Indeed Cody has some informative posts and wish we had more input from others as we would all learn. I read all posts with a grain of salt and have formulated settings which work for me..in addendum use what works for you as Minelab as given us the ability to pick and choose a variety of settings for our particuliar hunting area to hopefully make us better detectorists...

 

[Anonymous]

Cody,
You stated
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">FAST is an internal method of adjusting how quickly the circuits recover after a piece of trash material is rejected by the threshold going silent.</span>
My interpretation of the Explorer manual is that Fast On allows the circuits to recovery from a target signal more quickly than in the Fast Off mode. This is true of all targets whether discriminated out or not. This means that, when there are two targets that are close together, then the detector circuits will be more likely to see each target separately. This is true whether both targets are good, both targets are rejected or there is one good and one rejected target.
Do you agree with this assessment?
HH,
Glenn

 

[Anonymous]

On your first two paragraphs you make the point of there being a best speed to swing whether that be fast or slow, what you fail to realize (or mention) is that the length of your swing in iron trash plays a huge role in being successful. I agree with your table analogy, but remember in trash we are going after one target and the best method to get that target. Think of it this way, if you are throwing the dirt on the table and only have one target in mind, and this target is much more noticeable with special glasses to highlight the color, it will be easier to pick it out. Well that's the idea of using really short swings in iron, it lets you isolate the target much better than a longer swing no matter how fast or slow you swing. This of course is also known as the wiggle method of pinpointing, but it is also the best way to work through iron. Many of my targets I sometimes only catch enough on the return swing to stop me enough to recheck them. I have hunted several different ways with the XS and the swing length is every bit as important as the settings. I was taught this and trust me it wasn't a fun lesson cuz I got my butt whooped pretty bad. It was frustrating then, but I'm much better for it now.
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">"The circuits cannot tell a small piece of material close to the surface from a large target deep in the soil."</span>
Maybe the circuits can't but I sure can. <img src="/metal/html/wink.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> I hunt with my gain at ten and there is an obvious difference between deep and shallow targets whether they are in trash, or not. I can also go into a park with my gain at 10 and easily cheery pick only deep targets, that is not a problem. Furthermore, to prove my point the EX2 I had hit harder on coins. I don't now if it was deeper but in every hole I dug the target was about 1" deeper than what I was expecting. To me says that my brain is obviously guaged to how deep a target is by the sound. You make many posts in reference to screen readings which is likely why you are not near the level I am on sound. I need the screen for nothing in the way of ID readings.
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;"> Also, the more bits of trash we amplify the more we need to reject if we are in discrimination so the more the threshold nulls and the more tones we need to deal with.</span>
Why do we have to reject more? I don't, it's called knowing your detector. The last part makes no sense. (not to me anyway)
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;"> Fast interacts with how fast we sweep the coil. At IM-16 it makes no difference where FAST is set. </span>
So you are saying that if you have several coins in close proximity fast on will not make the processor react quicker between them? That doesn't seem right to me but I really don't know for sure.
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;"> This is a major reason why I think the worst advice I see is a few people that suggest they never change setting or should any user. That to me indicates a real lack of understanding of how the detector works.
</span>
I'm one of the people who don't change settings because I have been there and done that. It's called 4 years of steady experience on one detector, and not several. My sites generally don't change much, and if I can run high sens. with low disc. and it works very well, why would I want to change. I tend to think you have to adjust the explorer much more than I do because you don't have the ears I do. What I see as being the worst advice (or actions) is jumping from detector to detector without ever knowing one inside out.
Even more simple... Basically my settings don't have to change because they are what work well in the tough conditions. When things get easier, than it's really a cake walk.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree completely and thought of going into that but stayed away thinking it might be more confusing. Anyhow, you are exactly correct. It does seem to imply in materail I have read that an experienced used can get past this problem with good hearing if the threshold increases instead of going into null. I cannot and feel the recover is just as importnat in rejection or acceptance.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

I agree completely again. It is all of us working together to learn how to get the most from the detectors we enjoy using. I confess to not having any interest in bashing other machines or post that are more interested in promoting setting that someone likes best. Once we say we how we like FAST and DEEP set there is no reason to constantly say it over and over. That does not do anyone much good. If we understand what FAST and DEEP does then we can we can find out whre we like them set.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

What I posted are observation based on 40 years of use and about 10 with the Explorer series. I can understand always using the same setting if the conditions never change. The only problem in this area is I have never hunted an area where the conditions never change. The conditons change from day to day as far as dam to dry air and soil.
But, my post are not to tell anyone how to set the detector but instead to input data to consider. I think were we lock horns with others is in that it looks as if we are saying the settings they use are wrong. If I feed data in, Glenn and yourself and others do the same then we can all see what works for us.
The only way I would say to a person that the setting could be improved is if I hunted with that person in the very same area they hunt. Even then I would think that their preferences are best. It has never been my style to tell people what to do but rather to make suggestions.
My guess is you like how the detector works with your setting and will never change them. Why should that be any bother to me? It is your detector, your time and money so if you have found what you like and enjoy then that is what this is all about. There has never been any interest on my part of getting anyone to set FAST and DEEP in any specific way. My interest is in saying this is what each setting does now it is up to the individual to find the settings they like best.
I firmly agree with you that knowing the machine is very important. That however takes a lot of time and use. I am not sure the hard working guys that only can get out once a week or so want to take years to learn the machine when some help can be given to get to the better finds more quickly. I post to a classroom forum because of these very reasons. There is really nothing I have to offer a professional user other than good luck and happy hunting.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

Does Increasing gain have a similar function as turning on the the deep setting? If I read the first post right, deep has an audio function to increase response of deep targets, I thought increasing gain did this as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Audio Gain increases the amplification of all targets and might be better thought of as preamplifier gain. Deep enhances faint or weak signals but does not enhnace strong signals.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

Even if you are only offering these posts to new uses they should be right, and some of what you say I know is not.
"What I posted are observation based on 40 years of use and <span style="background-color:#ffff00;">about 10 with the Explorer series. </span>I can understand always using the same setting if the conditions never change?
I guess you meant a little over 5 years?

 

[Anonymous]

Well if Audio gain gives a relative increase on all targets, why not just up it, keep deep off, fast on. end of contraversy.

 

[Anonymous]

Because we use both to get max. depth in our area while keeping a stable detector. Seems like most that hunt deep targets always use deep which you cannot vary...but some excell with the Sens in low twenties while others can run it much higher all a matter of matching your sensitivity to the conditions in your area..

 

[Anonymous]

Good response and where external noise is concerend increasing or decreasing Audio Gain and Semi-auto sensitivity will have dramatic results. However, DEEP is not going to make much difference. Deep is to place emphasis on faint targets and not to deal with external noise. In areas where there is a lot external noise you can decrease sensitivity or use Semi-auto and then turn DEEP on to enhance the weak signals so get nice depth even with less Audio gain to kill external noise.
IF we really look at FAST I think we would find that this is digital filtering like the different sounds that can be selected. A very experienced user can do pretty much get by with no FAST function by adjusting sweep speed. Many detector use filters in a way that does not provided and way for the user to adjust the recovery other than sweep faster or slower. This is an extra feature on the Explorer and one reason why it cost more money. However, that only confuses it further and takes some explanation to get into mechanical and digital filters and sweep speeds.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

NO, I started with the Sovereign and included this in the time which actually has been since 1990. This was what became the Explorer series of machines. However, since I could not recall the first time I used multiple frequency technology that evolved into the Explorer11 I just said 10 years since I knew it was longer than that. I got my first one back in 1990.
However, as usual we jump off the topic when we have nothing constructive to contribute. You know CC you seem like a nice person and make some really good post so accepth this as honest as I mean it. I would be reluctant to have a little flock of "yes" guys that follow me around to back me up. I respect your posts and you as the person I know on the forum but I wonder about the little flock that just jump in to agree with anything you say as you go from one forum to another. You make good points and don't need that.
HH, Cody