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GT for Relic Hunting
- Thread starter jspoon
- Start date
deepdiger60
New member
John depends on the coil your using also some are deeper then others . Jim
Critterhunter
New member
No machine I ever owned was any deeper in All Metal than it was in disc. Mainly that's a hold over from like the 80's or older where the primative circuits in discrimation mode cost depth. Haven't played too much with All Metal FIXED on the GT yet (after setting via track, as tracking mode on any machine will cost you depth), but I can say the rumors are true of pin point mode on the GT. Blast the volume and sensitivity to full blast in PP mode, after ground balancing in the All Metal Track mode, and watch the magic.
Even without setting the ground balance via track, as I found out does indeed affect PP mode, I found PP mode was giving me PI-like depth in even bad soils or sands like some had said in the past for them. While I didn't find lowest of highest volume affected depth on my GT in disc, for sure it affects the depth of PP, and even with the volume all the way down PP has given me more depth than disc in bad ground, along with even sensitivity left at what is stable for disc.
Yet, PP will increase it's depth with full volume on the GT, and also can run at full sensitivity without instability issues at virtually 99.9% of the sites I've used it at thus far. Find a extremely deep or even not all that deep target but one in bad ground, and many times when you flip over to disc to double check that it's not iron, you'll find if you wander even an inch or two off center disc will not hear it.
This may sound like trouble, but if BBS is having trouble in disc at a bad site or at extreme depth, then imagine what other machines are having issues with. PP will sound off even nicking a target, to where you can then stop, move over it in disc, and wiggle. And, about 80% of the time now the unique traits or iron response in PP will tell me it's iron, even before flipping to disc to double check.
Far as All Metal Fixed mode, only used it here and there, but if it's like All Metal on all prior machines I owned, none of them showed me any more depth in All Metal than they did disc. Years ago that was true, and may be true with some machines these days, but I never saw it. PP mode though on the Sovereign/Excalibur...Yea, it's got something magic about it's traits and will do both PI-like depth and PI-like ability to cut through the worst of grounds that even BBS has issues with, which is saying a lot.
Even without setting the ground balance via track, as I found out does indeed affect PP mode, I found PP mode was giving me PI-like depth in even bad soils or sands like some had said in the past for them. While I didn't find lowest of highest volume affected depth on my GT in disc, for sure it affects the depth of PP, and even with the volume all the way down PP has given me more depth than disc in bad ground, along with even sensitivity left at what is stable for disc.
Yet, PP will increase it's depth with full volume on the GT, and also can run at full sensitivity without instability issues at virtually 99.9% of the sites I've used it at thus far. Find a extremely deep or even not all that deep target but one in bad ground, and many times when you flip over to disc to double check that it's not iron, you'll find if you wander even an inch or two off center disc will not hear it.
This may sound like trouble, but if BBS is having trouble in disc at a bad site or at extreme depth, then imagine what other machines are having issues with. PP will sound off even nicking a target, to where you can then stop, move over it in disc, and wiggle. And, about 80% of the time now the unique traits or iron response in PP will tell me it's iron, even before flipping to disc to double check.
Far as All Metal Fixed mode, only used it here and there, but if it's like All Metal on all prior machines I owned, none of them showed me any more depth in All Metal than they did disc. Years ago that was true, and may be true with some machines these days, but I never saw it. PP mode though on the Sovereign/Excalibur...Yea, it's got something magic about it's traits and will do both PI-like depth and PI-like ability to cut through the worst of grounds that even BBS has issues with, which is saying a lot.
I'm not concerned that AM is not deeper than Disc, I'm concerned that AM is only half the depth of Disc. I purchased the 12x10 to cover some wider areas for relic hunting and it doesn't look good. My 10" tornado is being sent in for repair so I have no way to compare. If someone could do even an air test with there 12x10 to compare and get back to me I would appreciate it. I noticed on the ground and in the air the depth was about half of what disc was as was the volume too.
Thaks all, John
Thaks all, John
Critterhunter
New member
Why not relic hunt in PP mode? Seems perfect for it. The 12x10 seems much more razor sharp in resolution to me in PP mode than other coils I've used that mode on, and also gets these deeper depths in PP just like for other coils.
I've only used All Metal Fixed here and there a bit so can't remark on it's depth, but as said on prior machines when I compared All Metal was never deeper than disc over the last 20 years or so of owning pretty much everything out there made since the early 90's and on.
I have heard some say the All Metal Fixed mode on the GT was the best all metal mode they ever used, and that it has some unique traits for an all metal mode like being able to tell a target's conductivity by the response passing the target. If I remember right, right around the nickel range targets above it in conductivity will do either a high/low response or a low/high response as you pass them, while stuff below nickels will do the reverse. I think Gunnar might be one of the big fans of All Metal on the GT for various reasons. Might have to do with the soil type as to if it's as deep or deeper than disc maybe. Tons of microscopic iron in the soil matrix? All Metal Fixed might see past it while disc nulls out to the target.
When setting it via Tracking, sweep around in *a clean spot* in place for a minute or so and then flip to Fixed. I use that to set the ground balance for pin point mode, and then I will pump the coil slowly in that spot to insure the threshold stays stable as the coil approaches/leaves the ground. It shouldn't go high or lower and then smooth out, as that's the SAT (self adjusting threshold) evening things out and doesn't mean the balance is right. It's the act of moving up/down that you have to pay attention to, and even if it smooths out continue to pump it and be sure it's the balance being right now and not the SAT function keeping the threshold mellow. After I do that I'll go back to sweeping in place a few more times and then flip to Fixed and the PP mode.
Why not try PP mode? It's got some unique qualities that will punch through the worst of grounds and also will find stuff at PI depths. A while back a guy having owned many top end PI units said his GT is as deep or deeper than them in PP mode. Impressive. I'm new to PP mode only having started to use it last summer at a bad beach, but am now starting to use it on land some with impressive results too. Even though I'm still learning it's traits, I can already tell iron about 80% of the time by a few unique responses to it even before flipping to disc to double check, and I hear there are about 10 other "words" or so to PP mode to judge non-ferrous targets by too.
Where I'm most excited to use it on land is where I know deep coins, beyond VLF technology in a detector, so to speak, lurk. That's when I won't care to flip to disc to double check, as it'll be out of range for disc for that given soil or sand. Just plan to go after the deep whispers in PP beyond disc's ability that don't indicate they are iron in PP. That's when I'll probably be going beyond where no man has gone before with a detector at such a land site.
PP mode does indeed show me more depth than disc even with the same sensitivity setting, but only with volume cranked to full for PP. And sensitivity in PP can be cranked to full blast even in rough grounds to get even deeper when a site is so mineralized sensitivity in disc has to be kept lower. At one beach though even with the volume lowest and sensitivity left at what was stable for disc, PP was still seeing deeper due to disc choking or nulling on targets only 5" or so deep due to the minerals, black sand, and microscopic iron in heavy amounts present.
Here's a pictorial video I did to precisely measure the depth of PP Vs Disc on the GT with highest and lowest volume, with both modes at full blast sensitivity in a low EMI environment. It shows clearly that disc, at least for me with my GT, hearing, and headphones, shows no change in depth with volume lowest or highest, while it does for PP, and also compares the depth of PP and disc against each other. I always heard the volume must be cranked to full to insure max depth in disc on the Sovereign. Appears to be true for the Excalibur, and might be true for prior Sovereign models, but I see no difference on my GT, with my headphones/hearing anyway...
http://youtu.be/G817__EOC8A
I also tested PP vs disc on the Excalibur and the old 8" BBS coil versus a GT using the Ultimate, to also see if a smaller coil would punch deeper at a badly mineralized beach. Results were interesting, as it's long been said that smaller coils will get deeper in bad ground. I've seen that to be true for my prior machines, but thus far not for my GT yet, except for when the coil gets beyond about 12 to 13" in size in my soil/sands like when I owned the 15x12.
I've only used All Metal Fixed here and there a bit so can't remark on it's depth, but as said on prior machines when I compared All Metal was never deeper than disc over the last 20 years or so of owning pretty much everything out there made since the early 90's and on.
I have heard some say the All Metal Fixed mode on the GT was the best all metal mode they ever used, and that it has some unique traits for an all metal mode like being able to tell a target's conductivity by the response passing the target. If I remember right, right around the nickel range targets above it in conductivity will do either a high/low response or a low/high response as you pass them, while stuff below nickels will do the reverse. I think Gunnar might be one of the big fans of All Metal on the GT for various reasons. Might have to do with the soil type as to if it's as deep or deeper than disc maybe. Tons of microscopic iron in the soil matrix? All Metal Fixed might see past it while disc nulls out to the target.
When setting it via Tracking, sweep around in *a clean spot* in place for a minute or so and then flip to Fixed. I use that to set the ground balance for pin point mode, and then I will pump the coil slowly in that spot to insure the threshold stays stable as the coil approaches/leaves the ground. It shouldn't go high or lower and then smooth out, as that's the SAT (self adjusting threshold) evening things out and doesn't mean the balance is right. It's the act of moving up/down that you have to pay attention to, and even if it smooths out continue to pump it and be sure it's the balance being right now and not the SAT function keeping the threshold mellow. After I do that I'll go back to sweeping in place a few more times and then flip to Fixed and the PP mode.
Why not try PP mode? It's got some unique qualities that will punch through the worst of grounds and also will find stuff at PI depths. A while back a guy having owned many top end PI units said his GT is as deep or deeper than them in PP mode. Impressive. I'm new to PP mode only having started to use it last summer at a bad beach, but am now starting to use it on land some with impressive results too. Even though I'm still learning it's traits, I can already tell iron about 80% of the time by a few unique responses to it even before flipping to disc to double check, and I hear there are about 10 other "words" or so to PP mode to judge non-ferrous targets by too.
Where I'm most excited to use it on land is where I know deep coins, beyond VLF technology in a detector, so to speak, lurk. That's when I won't care to flip to disc to double check, as it'll be out of range for disc for that given soil or sand. Just plan to go after the deep whispers in PP beyond disc's ability that don't indicate they are iron in PP. That's when I'll probably be going beyond where no man has gone before with a detector at such a land site.
PP mode does indeed show me more depth than disc even with the same sensitivity setting, but only with volume cranked to full for PP. And sensitivity in PP can be cranked to full blast even in rough grounds to get even deeper when a site is so mineralized sensitivity in disc has to be kept lower. At one beach though even with the volume lowest and sensitivity left at what was stable for disc, PP was still seeing deeper due to disc choking or nulling on targets only 5" or so deep due to the minerals, black sand, and microscopic iron in heavy amounts present.
Here's a pictorial video I did to precisely measure the depth of PP Vs Disc on the GT with highest and lowest volume, with both modes at full blast sensitivity in a low EMI environment. It shows clearly that disc, at least for me with my GT, hearing, and headphones, shows no change in depth with volume lowest or highest, while it does for PP, and also compares the depth of PP and disc against each other. I always heard the volume must be cranked to full to insure max depth in disc on the Sovereign. Appears to be true for the Excalibur, and might be true for prior Sovereign models, but I see no difference on my GT, with my headphones/hearing anyway...
http://youtu.be/G817__EOC8A
I also tested PP vs disc on the Excalibur and the old 8" BBS coil versus a GT using the Ultimate, to also see if a smaller coil would punch deeper at a badly mineralized beach. Results were interesting, as it's long been said that smaller coils will get deeper in bad ground. I've seen that to be true for my prior machines, but thus far not for my GT yet, except for when the coil gets beyond about 12 to 13" in size in my soil/sands like when I owned the 15x12.
Critterhunter
New member
I suspect the PP mode remark about it lacking a ground balance was a hold over from prior models or perhaps the Excalibur, because I recently received an email in inqiuriy from several Minelab sources, which one responded and said that PP mode on the GT was indeed deriving it's ground balance from the all metal track mode, just like all metal fixed mode was.
Now, that aside, many say PP mode on prior Sovereigns or the Excalibur, which lack All Metal Track on the GT, are said to also get depths or better of the best of the PI units. So, where does that stand? Well, before getting this email, I never set the ground balance for PP via All Metal Track mode, and yet was finding my GT stable and very deep in PP, even with volume and sensitivity cranked to full.
So where does that lay? Not sure, but I'll at least say now, after receiving that Email, that I do hunt in PP after setting the ground balance in track, and PERHAPS it seems even a tad more "stable" to me in PP while hunting, but that impressions can be just that with no substance behind it, because 90% of detecting is belief IMO, so take it where I leave it, and I couldn't imageine PP getting any more stable than it already was before using Track to set a supposed balance for PP.
I'll not say for sure, for that reason, that I've seen PP perform even more stable or deeper with a ground balance set via track, but regardless of that I will say PP on the GT, set either way, for sure will punch deep through the worst of minerals even gives BBS issues, and that's saying a lot, because BBS is legendary of punching through the worst of grounds that would bring other machines (As I have experience myself and also read for others) to their knees in both rough soils and sands.
One of the things that I think makes BBS extremely deep and smooth as warm butter in my soils/sands, is that it seems to bias it's BBS span into the lower span of frequencies, and for years I've always read (and experienced) that lower freqs penetrating certain mineralizations better than higher ones in general. Not to mention hitting copper or silver coins deep too, but the unique aspect of BBS is that it also seems to "light up" low and mid conductors better than some low freq machines, providing extreme depth on those where you wouldn't otherwise feel it would.
Yea, a Minelab won't hit on thin gold chains or tiny gold earrings as well as some other units, but in terms of even the thinnest of gold rings, being an intact loop, they present a pretty much "solid" image to a Minelab much like a solid silver coin will, and so (from experience and also other comparison opinions) will bang on those at jaw dropping depths as welll....
Now, that aside, many say PP mode on prior Sovereigns or the Excalibur, which lack All Metal Track on the GT, are said to also get depths or better of the best of the PI units. So, where does that stand? Well, before getting this email, I never set the ground balance for PP via All Metal Track mode, and yet was finding my GT stable and very deep in PP, even with volume and sensitivity cranked to full.
So where does that lay? Not sure, but I'll at least say now, after receiving that Email, that I do hunt in PP after setting the ground balance in track, and PERHAPS it seems even a tad more "stable" to me in PP while hunting, but that impressions can be just that with no substance behind it, because 90% of detecting is belief IMO, so take it where I leave it, and I couldn't imageine PP getting any more stable than it already was before using Track to set a supposed balance for PP.
I'll not say for sure, for that reason, that I've seen PP perform even more stable or deeper with a ground balance set via track, but regardless of that I will say PP on the GT, set either way, for sure will punch deep through the worst of minerals even gives BBS issues, and that's saying a lot, because BBS is legendary of punching through the worst of grounds that would bring other machines (As I have experience myself and also read for others) to their knees in both rough soils and sands.
One of the things that I think makes BBS extremely deep and smooth as warm butter in my soils/sands, is that it seems to bias it's BBS span into the lower span of frequencies, and for years I've always read (and experienced) that lower freqs penetrating certain mineralizations better than higher ones in general. Not to mention hitting copper or silver coins deep too, but the unique aspect of BBS is that it also seems to "light up" low and mid conductors better than some low freq machines, providing extreme depth on those where you wouldn't otherwise feel it would.
Yea, a Minelab won't hit on thin gold chains or tiny gold earrings as well as some other units, but in terms of even the thinnest of gold rings, being an intact loop, they present a pretty much "solid" image to a Minelab much like a solid silver coin will, and so (from experience and also other comparison opinions) will bang on those at jaw dropping depths as welll....