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Groundbalancing question for XT-50 and XT-70

D

dfwdetector

New member
Ground balancing on these machines is accomplished while in the ALL METAL MODE. So my question now is, since you pinpoint in the all metal mode AND that is where the ground balance is set, when you switch to either one of the two discriminate modes the XTERRA must then use a PRESET FIXED ground balance setting from the factory while in discriminate modes, correct?

TIA.

:)
 
The Ground Balance of both the X-50 and X-70 is adjustable by the user. And, the settings are applied to the all metal mode and the discrimination patterns. (X-30 is preset in both modes) Personally, I prefer to set my GB while in the all metal mode, simply because I want to make sure that there is nothing metallic in the area that I am using to set the GB with. However, you can use one of the Pattern modes to set either machine, with good results. Again, the only reason I use the all metal mode is to make sure there is nothing in the ground at the spot I am using to properly set my GB. I know many folks set their GB while in a Pattern. If you do that, just make sure that there are no "rejected" targets in the area you are bobbing the coil. HH Randy
 
Ok, but does it make any difference? I mean when you push the Ground Balance button does'nt that automatically shfit the unit into ALL METAL MODE for the duration. If not then how does it let you hear a threshold in the DISC mode when you can't normally hear a threshold in the discriminate mode when you hunt using it? I think I'm confused.. still...

TIA.
 
Are you trying to manual GB or to just GB? It seems that you are afraid you won't hear any sound when GBing because you normally hunt in disc with no threshold. Is this correct? The reason most people GB in all metal is because they used all metal to see if the ground is clear. If you know the ground is clear, you can GB in disc. I always run with a threshold. When you GB, do you hear sound and do you set for a min sound, balance position, or null point?
 
Wayne, first let's look at your question here and down this thread a little and address the terminology used.

"Ground balancing on these machines is accomplished while in the ALL METAL MODE."... Actually, that's incorrect. Ground Balance is accomplished when in the Ground Balance adjust function, regardless of the operating mode you're in.

 
I will put this aside until I am not so tired...then read it again. For some reason, I am having a problem comprehending totally what you are saying. Are you saying that the X-Terra 70 uses an "motion all metal accept mode" in the discrimination patterns and uses a "true all metal motion mode" while in the prospecting mode? What is the difference from an motion all metal accept mode and a motion true all metal mode? Kelley (Texas) :)
 
Perhaps the best way is to respond to your post itself:

"I will put this aside until I am not so tired...then read it again."... That's a good idea. Sometimes I wonder if I have been a bit tired when I write some of the stuff I post. :D

"For some reason, I am having a problem comprehending totally what you are saying."... I don't think you're alone in that corner. Sorry.

"... and uses a "true all metal motion mode" while in the prospecting mode?"... No, not really.

Let's first look at the discriminate mode question: "Are you saying that the X-Terra 70 uses an "motion all metal accept mode" in the discrimination patterns?"... Yes. The Discriminate mode with the X-Terra series, just like every other modern detector which operates in a ground-compensated discriminate mode, requires some degree of [motion' in order to function. Some require an ultra-slow sweep, some a moderate sweep and others in between. Some are more forgiving that others with regard to the sweep speed, but ALL modern types (OK, virtually all) are referred to as "motion based" discriminators. The search coil must be swept and as you do so you're feeding in the ground signal and target signal. The circuitry deals with the ground signal and passes along the target signal. The X-Terra series are slow-motion based discriminators.

With the X-T 30 you have 1 custom 'Pattern' program or mode, and with the X-T 50 you have 2 and the X-Terra 30 you have 3 Pattern program modes you can customize. With all three models you can opt, at the press of the button, to shift to what is essentially a Zero Discriminate mode, which Minelab chose to call All Metal, and is actually nothing more than a motion Discriminate mode that is set at about '0' or no target rejection.

The other part of your question was: "... and uses a "true all metal motion mode" while in the prospecting mode?"... The Prospecting mode uses what would be considered a true, All Metal mode. A 'traditional' or 'conventional' All Metal mode that would NOT require motion EXCEPT FOR THE FAT that if there is a autotune circuitry in use, then some degree of coil motion is required and the coil can not be held static over a target w/o autotuning to the threshold setting.

The other issue with the Prospecting mode is that while it is basically a true All Metal mode, it also provides a very, very. very low-end adjustment to deal with some iron, which Minelab refers to as "Iron Mask."

"What is the difference from an motion all metal accept mode and a motion true all metal mode?"... I hope I have explained it a little better above. If not, shoot me an E-mail: MonteVB@comcast.net

Monte
 
It appears that I do understand what you are saying, but for some reason I had a mental block when I originally read your original post.

Am I correct in assuming that the X-Terra 70 when in a discrimination pattern, and you elect to not discriminate out any metal targets, would you not have the same complete range of detection of all metals just as you would have in the true all metal mode? Or would the accept all metal discrimination pattern be similar to the 120 or 180 discrimination set up that Tesoro used?

This may not be the correct forum to be asking this type of question, but I am trying to learn why the X-Terra 70 operates the way that it does.

I will be glad when Minelab comes out with the smaller coil. Kelley (Texas) :)
 
"It appears that I do understand what you are saying, but for some reason I had a mental block when I originally read your original post."... Okay! :)

"Am I correct in assuming that the X-Terra 70 when in a discrimination pattern, and you elect to not discriminate out any metal targets, would you not have the same complete range of detection of all metals just as you would have in the true all metal mode?".... Yes, I guess, it would be just about the same, except for the fact that with the X-Terra 70 the Prospecting (All Metal) mode has much greater depth and sensitivity than the Coin & Treasure Pattern (motion Discriminate) mode.

"Or would the accept all metal discrimination pattern be similar to the 120 or 180 discrimination set up that Tesoro used?"... Okay, this will be a little more interesting. That is, comparing the lingo used for other makes and models to what Minelab is doing with the X-Terra 70.

If you are in a C&T Pattern mode and you only reject -8, -6 and perhaps -4, it would be at about the point where most iron nails are rejected and that would be similar to the Tesoro models with the ED-120 Discriminate circuitry when set at the minimum rejection setting. If you press the "All Metal" touch-pad to opt for no metal target rejection in a C&T Pattern program, that would be very similar to a good Tesoro model with ED-180 Discrimination set at the minimum setting. There are many other makes and models that can provide similar all-metal accept performance in the motion Disc. mode, such as the Classic III SL & IDX Pro when toggled to Black Sand and set at minimum Disc., the MXT or XL Pro when the Disc. is set at a minimum point, Garrett's Scorpion Gold Stinger can do it, the Troy Shadow X5, Tesoro Compadre, Eldroado (
 
n/t
 
Some of us have found that the X-Terra all metal mode actually detects a wider range of targets than when a Pattern mode is set to accept all notches. All of them to a certain degree. But most notibly on the X-30. My theory is that notches are just that..... Segments of target values that can either be accepted or rejected. To either accept or reject any specific target, the target value must fall into the category of the notches you have available. Not higher or lower. If a target has a value that does not match up with one of the preprogrammed notches, you will not detect it when you are in a Pattern mode. Even with all the notches accepted. Having notches and using all metal is much different than having variable discrimination circuitry and setting it at minimum.
If you search back a few pages, you will find several posts that were made concerning these tests, using ferrite as a sample. HH Randy
 
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