General Detecting Post./ First Texas Information

[Elton]

I don't know if everyone reads the posts on boards other than their specific brand forum, and maybe this forum.

If you do not..may I suggest you go to Fisher F Series forum and read Mike Scotts review of how they choose FIeld Testers at First Texas.

It's buried a little in the F75 LTD field test by BuckeyeBrad. Look it up Under Mike Scott.......... You just have to appreciate the fresh approach by First Texas.

First Texas is building good quality equipment............ They want a fair and honest report on their products. Bravo First Texas, and Mike Scott for posting your thoughts. I would copy it here, but, I do not have Mike's permission. Check it out.

 

[JB(MS)]

From reading that post the boost mode on the F75 Ltd sounds a lot like the DeepSearch mode George Payne put in the version 2.2 chip for the Cointrax Treasure Baron back in 2005. Kind of surprising it took four years for another mfg to come up with something like the DeepSearch mode, I thought it would happen sooner, but it the boost mode works as well on the F75 as the DeepSearch mode does on the Baron it will open up some of the older, supposedly hunted out sites again.

 

[Shambler]

I have this sickening feeling that "boost" mode means you not only pick up the power lines and cell towers nearby, but the ones even in the next county also.

I would've spent $2000 on a new F75 that had taken care of the EMI issues when operating at '0' disc

 

[Elton]

BuckeyeBrads test of the machine didn't seem to indictae there was a great abundance.
So I myself am hoping for the best. But like you..Sure I would pay more for a machine that didn't have EMI..But they all do really..Some just hide it and call it something else..

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[marcomo]

I don't know if everyone reads the posts on boards other than their specific brand forum, and maybe this forum.

If you do not..may I suggest you go to Fisher F Series forum and read Mike Scotts review of how they choose FIeld Testers at First Texas.

It's buried a little in the F75 LTD field test by BuckeyeBrad. Look it up Under Mike Scott.......... You just have to appreciate the fresh approach by First Texas.

First Texas is building good quality equipment............ They want a fair and honest report on their products. Bravo First Texas, and Mike Scott for posting your thoughts. I would copy it here, but, I do not have Mike's permission. Check it out.

Agreed 100%! Mike Scott's upfront honesty and willingness to share about how FT does the field tests is a breath of fresh air.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Shambler

Running at "0" zero Disc. does not cause it to have EMI issues. Contrary that's far from what's happing. There's a little boo boo in the programming that they can't find, so that's why it get's a tad bit unstable when the Disc. is set to zero.

If you like running there, my suggestion would be to put the unit back into factory base start up mode, Set tones at #1, set sensitivity to #90+, Ground balance. Yes you will hear a lot of noise, but they will be no doubt in your mind when you pass your coil over a deep good target.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Mr. Bill,

Has that boo boo been corrected?

I don't know if you recall when someone, not me, mapped the Disc vs Sensitivity and posted a nice graph.

[attachment 139474 F75Discrim.gif]

Long ago(~2 years) when I saw the graph I made a post stating that there was something wrong with that code. Of course with 20+ years of developing microprocessor based products I'm just an idiot & don't know squat. Certain individuals got their panties all in a knot. But the end result was that the boo boo has caused all sorts of problems for end users and soured many on the F75. It has hurt their sales, but this was completely self inflicted and foreseeable + correctable.

So have they taken the time to correct it? If they have it may actually be a more stable detector than the original F75.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Mr.Bill]

Hi Bill

No I didn't see that chart you did. If I didn't I don't remember.

It was Ralph at SunRay in a conversation I had with him lately that brought it to the front of my mind. He had discovered it when first developing his probe for the F75. He had phoned Fisher, and had spoke to both John & Dave about it. Fishers work around was to set the default, notching out the lower segment of the discriminating range.

Yes, it has caused a lot of problems. We'll compound it with the fact they had a batch of flunky coils in the beginning that just added to the mysterious, (perceived to some degree), electrical interference problem. Lets not forget about user error.

The coil thing is behind them. Users should do a little reading, educating themselves about the lower discriminating thing. If they operate the F75 with a tad bit of common sense, they will discover it's a good unit. Now I'm not trying to say the F75 is going to fit every ones need, and your not never going to have any bad moments with it, but overall it's a good unit.

 

[Mr.Bill]

I'm sure the principal behind it is George's. They received a lot of George's paper when they purchased Bounty Hunter.

 

[Elton]

I think we have to remember the T2/F75 was a totally new detector platform. I think the LTD's are an improved version of the F75 and T2 thats become the LTD Versions. That said, I do not have the knowledge you have Mr.Bill..and you may be perfectly correct in your assesment. Myself I think First Texas Engineers are the top Designers & Engineers in the present world of Metal Detectors that use their knowledge, and their knowledge alone. Again Mr. Bill no insult intended Sir, your a very knowlegeable man...I only wish I knew what you know.

 

[Shambler]

why it get's a tad bit unstable

That is a perfect chart BB - I tried to explain that on another forum and was told I wasn't using it correctly (of course). It's whacked out at anything below disc 6 and at a disc of 6 it gets similar depth to an F4 with a DD (at a $500 savings). As far as souring goes - what's soured me most is the "user error" garbage amongst the crowd. You don't hear that in other forums - on much more complex machines.

Set tones at 1? Unfortunately, you're not the first person to tell me to reduce the tones on my $999 machine to gain stability.

I'm going to have to start carrying a video camera and post the mess this machine can become on youtube. If you're hunting 1800's inner-city houses or inner-city parks, it's only somewhat usable AND it's maddening. I keep it around with the 4X6 on it for iron carpets - somehow that coil can handle everything maxed out.

(perceived to some degree), electrical interference problem.

I think it's odd that this is even mentioned as a perception issue when they include a warning paper in the box (with big font and bold letters), a section in the manual, and the first thing they blame instability on is EMI. When the numbers change (not moving the coil) at imperceptible speed and the tones sound like a Star Wars laser fight scene - there's not a lot of ways to perceive it differently.


If they fixed this issue, I'll take one. If not, it's just more of the same from FT.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Hi Elton

You very well may be correct.

About George Payne, we owe things like ground balance/ground tracking, target ID, discrimination, and the basic VLF detector to him.

This Deep Boost mode is not a new idea as it has been utilized in other detector designs for a while. George's designed Cointrax circuit incorporates a deep search mode into it. They are weak enough signals that your detector picks up that are not strong enough for the circuit to process into a usable audio tone or target ID. These Deep Boost aids, enhance the ability of your detector to process the target so you can hear it. I suspect that the F75 & T2's are using that sort of design to enhance the signal with the LTD's. Both George's design & the F75/T2 are microprocessor controlled.

This is just speculation on my part with the F75/T2 platforms.

 

[Mr.Bill]

I have no idea what's up with yours. I do know that I have not experienced the problems your explaining, with the many F75's I have sold & delivered. With the F75's I have sold all over the country, it hasn't been a issue.

Just for your info: they do shield the F75 from outside interference

You may be stretching the issue of the interference note they put into the box. All metal detectors can & do experience some sort of electrical interference from time to time. If yours is giving you fits, and it happens at most places you hunt, I would take a second look at what's going on with you & your detector.This may sound like a redundant statement, but perhaps it needs to go back to Fisher for them to check it out ???? I'm surrounded by high powered military electronics, I hunt in the city, I hunt everywhere. It just hasn't been a problem. Do I get bothered by it sometimes, sure I do, we all do at times with anything we use.

When you put the smaller coil on, what affect does it have on your problem ? You may a problem with your stock coil.

Running at 0 discrimination will cause you some greif giving you a very un-stable unit. Perhaps that's what your calling electrial interference ??? On the other hand you could be 100% correct, and it just doesn't work there for you under your style of hunting conditions. The option on that is to change out the detector.

Have a nice day.

PS: If you send me your phone number I would be willing to phone you, and try to see if I can help you out with this. PM me.

.

 

[grumpyolman]

Mr. Bill...You are one high class gentleman. Jim

 

[BarnacleBill]

Ain't it amazing with what he has to put up with? He's been very tolerant! Maybe I should send him a jar of Tums for the indigestion I cause him.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Elton]

I didn't mean to imply that nothing Mr.Payne Engineered wasn't incorporated. He has invented many aspects of the modern detector.That being said, it does stand to reason that something in every detector has a little of all previous machines. No matter who made or improved on the workings. The basic concept is "It's a metal detector"..LOL If it didn't have some things from prior units..who knows what we would call it.

I just hope you will always step in and give us your wisdom, and thoughts on detecting and detectors.

 

[Shambler]

Running at 0 discrimination will cause you some greif giving you a very un-stable unit. Perhaps that's what your calling electrial interference ???

That's what Mike Scott called it - I assumed that was it since in a few places "0" disc works perfectly. The only difference appears to be location.

All metal detectors can & do experience some sort of electrical interference from time to time

Oddly enough, I've never gotten a big note in a box with other detectors (or even heard of it). But, I've never had a detector (or heard of one) as unstable as this one.


The first one I had was sent back to Fisher three times. They had suggestions like less tones, more discrimination, and different filters. They also swapped out the coil two of those times My issue has always been, the depth is poor with "more discrimination" and less tones is well, less tones (read: not good in a trashy environment). You just can't with a clear conscience market a $1000 device as full notch and discrimination with 4 tones and then state you can hardly ever use those features. AND in coin shooting environments you get the depth of a much lesser unit.

I sold the damn thing. 6 months later I picked up another one that seemed much more stable and I thought I was finally seeing what everyone was talking about. The joke was on me however - it seems the the planets were just right that day (or the power lines were wet ????? as Tom D says).

Forcing the user to add discrimination and lessen depth to provide a stable unit when 3 other detectors in the same area have no problems indicates to me an issue with engineering.

I keep it with the 4X6 on it and that's how it's gotten used this season. And, this season I'm not hearing 80's video game sounds in my sleep while showing my wife dirty pieces of junk that no one can identify. The 11" goes on it when I'm in the middle of a corn or bean field in the fall. All other times, I happily use a different manufacturer where I show shiny pieces of silver to anyone that will listen

I'm telling you the F4 I owned was a better all-around detector than the F75. That's unfortunate for FT.

Somone go to the inner-city and put the LTD at '0' disc and let me know what happens. I'd buy one if it's quiet in that environment.

many more potential field testers

I'm confident I'm not in that pool

 

[Mr.Bill]

Shambler

Well you did keep me laughing reading this post. Sorry, no disrespect meant. I do understand the frustration you must have gone threw.

I do agree on the F4 thing. I had the only prototype they made, (still do), and I was a bit impressed. I am surrounded by salt beach's, and it did real well on them including the salt water. (One needs to keep it in discriminate, and not try to use pinpoint.) It was a good coin shooter also.

You have a nice day, it won't be long and we will all know what the LTD will or will not do.

Later
Bill

 

[Shambler]

Sorry, no disrespect meant.

Why would I feel disrespected when I post a bunchy of funny sheeeet and you, well, laughed ...... hmmm ....

It's almost time for the crops to come in - what settings should I use?