Found a dime looking for a nickel!

[Ronstar]

Not even sure how to post this……

Yesterday went to the campus and found diddly sh*t. Ok, that happens….. today jkline and I had time to attack the area known as the EMI zone again. The Legend vs the eTrac, game on.

We waltzed for a good hour and Jeff nailed two wheats and I’m behind. Decided to head out to the big lawn. Now, to be fair we were bombarded with EMI neither of us has experienced before. I was slammed even in 4khz and sometimes 15khz was better. Finally broke out to the big lawn and it started getting better. What changed? No idea.

Finally hit a decent 28 signal which for the Legend is a nickel. Says deep so hoping for a Buff or a V nickel, nope. Pulled up a ‘46 Rosie. WTF? Put the dime back in the hole (nearly 8” deep) and now no signal. Zip, zero, nada. Try different settings and still zero. Ok, call the almighty eTrac and Jeff over. “Check the plug please”. He get gets iron halo. Not even going to repeat the phrases…….
Nasty rain storm hits so 10 minute delay. Jeff wants to try Elmy’s program and Andy’s program and what the hell, try Ed Sullivan’s program. ZERO.
What just happened? What did we walk over or past? Why did two good detectors miss this? After the first monsoon we attempted a second try but this time dime was closer to 5-6”, ZERO.
Could the storm with some lightening be messing with the detectors? Ground balance? Operator error? Fate?

I will let Jeff explain the eTrac readings, I was digging a nickel and a ‘46 Rosie showed up…..

 

[jkline]

This one is a head-scratcher. Ron called me over and told me what was going on. I'm like, "hold my beer." I proceed to throw every etrac setting at this 6" dime-- nothing was detectable except for some faint iron falsing. The EMI was bad today, but I wasn't too effected at this spot. 80' away I found a Canadian silver dime at 10"...

Frustrating to find you are only detecting at 4" or less. Not sure what is going on... if it is some difficult ground in that area or if I have a problem coil... so time to bury some coins and do some testing.

 

[Ronstar]

So what did we miss or what didn’t we miss? The EMI WAS INSANE! Does the University upload/download/ transfer info in this area? Pulling the Rosie was pure luck at this point. Please someone chip in. Ok, Elmy will anoint the post with Elmyisms but please speak in English!!! Lol.
I actually watched an eTrac circle the plug and get get zilch and thats a definitive action. The Legend stayed quiet as well! What has the world come too?

 

[JimmyCT]

Maybe the air / atmosphere was electrically charged for a bit as the storm approached, hit then left, rending your electronics useless. As time went on the electrical charge dissipated. That’s my one-silver-dime-that-registered-like-a-nickel-theory.

 

[Ronstar]

Oh trust me that was dicussed!!!
I’ve never been as flummoxed as this one…..

If you abide by and trust Elmy this could not have happened…. !!!!

 

[jkline]

Did a 7" deep Rosie test later at my mtn redoubt-- none of my detectors would hit it.

The soil is completely drenched-- perhaps that impedes depth?

 

[jim tn]

The soil is completely drenched-- perhaps that impedes depth?

I've always felt coins had more of a distinct thunk to them in semi dry ground verses very wet. Perhaps even more so affected in saturated dirt. Oh, I know about the so called halo affect, but on a silver coin little to no halo comes into play, anyway. On the other hand, plenty of deep targets (I guess) are recover by beach hunters in very wet sand.

I suspect, Ron, your nickel became a dime do to some small piece of iron being decayed/rusted out in the dirt somewhere nearby the target. Don''t know why you guys couldn't hit the dime down in the hole after recovering it, but frequently a good sounding target dissipates after removing some amount of dirt and swinging back over the hole prior to recovering it. You guys have a tricky spot there, it appears. emi you know about and probably the silent emi type that one often doesn't. HH jim tn

 

[Elmy]

Oh trust me that was dicussed!!!
I’ve never been as flummoxed as this one…..

If you abide by and trust Elmy this could not have happened…. !!!!

If you would have not disturbed the soil on and around the target, as discussed before, you could have did numerous accurate testing with every detector ever made.
When you removed the target, and put it back in the hole, did you really think it would sound the same on your detector? You moved the dirt, you broke the target's signal.
Bury a fresh silver dime 8 inches deep in your yard and get a dime hit on it using the almighty NEW LEGEND and TRUTHFULLY let us all know your result.

 

[fwcrawford]

If you would have not disturbed the soil on and around the target, as discussed before, you could have did numerous accurate testing with every detector ever made.
When you removed the target, and put it back in the hole, did you really think it would sound the same on your detector? You moved the dirt, you broke the target's signal.
Bury a fresh silver dime 8 inches deep in your yard and get a dime hit on it using the almighty NEW LEGEND and TRUTHFULLY let us all know your result.

How does the dime read out of the hole?
Whoops …wrong person… meant for Ronstar.

 

[Picketwire]

I suspect, Ron, your nickel became a dime do to some small piece of iron being decayed/rusted out in the dirt somewhere nearby the target.

+1 I have seen this on my garage floor with a paper clip near the dime.

On not seeing it in an empty hole--your detector is ground balanced to the soil. There is no mineralization in the hole so unless you are in a tracking mode with vey fast response, your detector is extremely negatively ground balanced, which, as Monte has explained in many post on different forums, will cause you to miss high conductivity targets like silver.

Thunderstorm and military planes in the area can cause massive EMI.

 

[Ronstar]

Ok, checked dime on surface and 46 as it should be. Interesting next two events…..
Ground/dirt is very wet. When I swept in 20 and 40 khz value upped to 48, either way Legend identified as full non ferrous. Buried dime at 7-8” range and detected. Legend pulled the dime but VDI was 22 (tab range) and was consistent but no ferrocheck reading.
Tried F75: surface was 74-75 as normal but no response when buried.

Tried both detectors at max Sens and in default settings. Both tried in all metal modes too, Legend still hitting at 22 so that at least consistent.
Yes we had electrical storm nearby but no military planes known or observed. If that dime had registered as 22 yesterday I probably would have passed as experience shows thats been a folded beavertail tab (so far and yes I know it could be a ring but usually not a solid hit, more chirpy).
Leaving coin buried and will try again when dirt drier and again when mainly dry.

Elmy says wont sound off in disturbed ground, ie putting back in hole and replacing the plug. Question that brings up is how do the guys detecting fields after farmer plows finding coins/relics that come up from discing the fields? Items are not primarily surface and most reports are anything from surface to various depths.

 

[still looking 52]

There has to be another piece of metal close by where you found your dime, this will cause the dime to get crazy signals, even completely cancel out your dime completely.
I've even had the reverse happen to me, start out with a dime signal and find a nickel.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[JimmyCT]

Ok, checked dime on surface and 46 as it should be. Interesting next two events…..
Ground/dirt is very wet. When I swept in 20 and 40 khz value upped to 48, either way Legend identified as full non ferrous. Buried dime at 7-8” range and detected. Legend pulled the dime but VDI was 22 (tab range) and was consistent but no ferrocheck reading.
Tried F75: surface was 74-75 as normal but no response when buried.

Tried both detectors at max Sens and in default settings. Both tried in all metal modes too, Legend still hitting at 22 so that at least consistent.
Yes we had electrical storm nearby but no military planes known or observed. If that dime had registered as 22 yesterday I probably would have passed as experience shows thats been a folded beavertail tab (so far and yes I know it could be a ring but usually not a solid hit, more chirpy).
Leaving coin buried and will try again when dirt drier and again when mainly dry.

Elmy says wont sound off in disturbed ground, ie putting back in hole and replacing the plug. Question that brings up is how do the guys detecting fields after farmer plows finding coins/relics that come up from discing the fields? Items are not primarily surface and most reports are anything from surface to various depths.

That’s a big difference in TID!! I wonder what else the machine is leaving behind as good targets ?

 

[Elmy]

Ok, checked dime on surface and 46 as it should be. Interesting next two events…..
Ground/dirt is very wet. When I swept in 20 and 40 khz value upped to 48, either way Legend identified as full non ferrous. Buried dime at 7-8” range and detected. Legend pulled the dime but VDI was 22 (tab range) and was consistent but no ferrocheck reading.
Tried F75: surface was 74-75 as normal but no response when buried.

Tried both detectors at max Sens and in default settings. Both tried in all metal modes too, Legend still hitting at 22 so that at least consistent.
Yes we had electrical storm nearby but no military planes known or observed. If that dime had registered as 22 yesterday I probably would have passed as experience shows thats been a folded beavertail tab (so far and yes I know it could be a ring but usually not a solid hit, more chirpy).
Leaving coin buried and will try again when dirt drier and again when mainly dry.

Elmy says wont sound off in disturbed ground, ie putting back in hole and replacing the plug. Question that brings up is how do the guys detecting fields after farmer plows finding coins/relics that come up from discing the fields? Items are not primarily surface and most reports are anything from surface to various depths.

Elmy says wont sound off in disturbed ground, ie putting back in hole and replacing the plug....

Nope did not say that....said this...
When you removed the target, and put it back in the hole, did you really think it would sound the same on your detector? You could not even hit it nor could the etrac of Jklines.

Did you expect to bury a fresh dime 7-8 inches deep and have it read a dime signal ?
This is what I asked....Bury a fresh silver dime 8 inches deep in your yard and get a dime hit on it using the almighty NEW LEGEND and TRUTHFULLY let us all know your result. Dime hit equals what on a legend ? Certainly not a pull tab of 22.

 

[fwcrawford]

Ok, checked dime on surface and 46 as it should be. Interesting next two events…..
Ground/dirt is very wet. When I swept in 20 and 40 khz value upped to 48, either way Legend identified as full non ferrous. Buried dime at 7-8” range and detected. Legend pulled the dime but VDI was 22 (tab range) and was consistent but no ferrocheck reading.
Tried F75: surface was 74-75 as normal but no response when buried.

Tried both detectors at max Sens and in default settings. Both tried in all metal modes too, Legend still hitting at 22 so that at least consistent.
Yes we had electrical storm nearby but no military planes known or observed. If that dime had registered as 22 yesterday I probably would have passed as experience shows thats been a folded beavertail tab (so far and yes I know it could be a ring but usually not a solid hit, more chirpy).
Leaving coin buried and will try again when dirt drier and again when mainly dry.

Elmy says wont sound off in disturbed ground, ie putting back in hole and replacing the plug. Question that brings up is how do the guys detecting fields after farmer plows finding coins/relics that come up from discing the fields? Items are not primarily surface and most reports are anything from surface to various depths.

That last question is an interesting one.... While I have watched folks recheck the hole after digging a plug to see it the target is still in the hole verses the plug, I have seldom been able to do this.. Once I dig the plug, I usually do not get anymore signals if the target is still in the hole... this is with several detectors I use, but if I replace the plug, most of the time I will get a response.
I agree with Still lookng 52.. something else in the ground close to the dime.
I have found quite a few coins that sure did not give the reading they should have, but have no explanation for it.

 

[fwcrawford]

Did a 7" deep Rosie test later at my mtn redoubt-- none of my detectors would hit it.

The soil is completely drenched-- perhaps that impedes depth?

I think in red clay, water sure has a negative effect on signals and depth from my experience.
Some years ago while searching a schoolyard, I found several deep silver coins and wheat pennies during about a 5 week dry spell.. after we got some rain I never found anymore.

 

[Ronstar]

We have had an unusually wet spring and now another large rain storm tomorrow with a high temp forecast as 50. I dont think I’ve ever had the experience of detecting saturated ground like this and so maybe something learned. I dont remember reading anything regarding this tho either.

Most likely there is other metals around where this was and Jeff was getting a falsing signal nearby. That old lawn has seen a lot of human traffic and events over a 130 yrs. In all metal mode I didnt even get a hint of anything around the plug. I suppose the wet ground could hide that too? May have to wait these conditions out and let it dry out before making an effort again.
Meanwhile I am going to ask what is causing the EMI in that one area, gotta be a couple thousand Engineers getting their degrees here and some of those have to be EE’s…..
Next storm coming in this afternoon so if I hear thunder I might run out and turn the Legend on for a bit and see if she’s chatty (distant thunder like yesterday)
BTW, no other metals in the ground where I buried the dime so just wondering about the 22 VDI, and trying to remember where I hit those numbers.
Last observation. I did recover a few zincolns that VDI’d correctly and were in the 5”+ range, but no clad or other like items. Just my luck nothing affects zinc….
Stupid hobby

 

[JimmyCT]

We have had an unusually wet spring and now another large rain storm tomorrow with a high temp forecast as 50. I dont think I’ve ever had the experience of detecting saturated ground like this and so maybe something learned. I dont remember reading anything regarding this tho either.

Most likely there is other metals in and around where this was and Jeff was getting a falsing signal nearby. That old lawn has seen a lot of human traffic and events over a 130 yrs. In all metal mode I didnt even get a hint of anything around the plug. I suppose the wet ground could hide that too? May have to wait these conditions out and let it dry out before making an effort again.
Meanwhile I am going to ask what is causing the EMI in that one area, gotta be a couple thousand Engineers getting their degrees here and some of those have to be EE’s…..
Next storm coming in this afternoon so if I hear thunder I might run out and turn the Legend on for a bit and see if she’s chatty (distant thunder like yesterday)
BTW, no other metals in the ground where I buried the dime so just wondering about the 22 VDI, and trying to remember where I hit those numbers at.
Stupid hobby

Whatever you do, don’t hold your detector up towards the sky as you will make yourself a grounding rod

 

[Elmy]

That last question is an interesting one.... While I have watched folks recheck the hole after digging a plug to see it the target is still in the hole verses the plug, I have seldom been able to do this.. Once I dig the plug, I usually do not get anymore signals if the target is still in the hole... this is with several detectors I use, but if I replace the plug, most of the time I will get a response.
I agree with Still lookng 52.. something else in the ground close to the dime.
I have found quite a few coins that sure did not give the reading they should have, but have no explanation for it.

One thing to try would be stomping the target area with your heel to compact the soil over the target area.
You might be surprised at the outcome.

 

[Elmy]

Ok, checked dime on surface and 46 as it should be. Interesting next two events…..
Ground/dirt is very wet. When I swept in 20 and 40 khz value upped to 48, either way Legend identified as full non ferrous. Buried dime at 7-8” range and detected. Legend pulled the dime but VDI was 22 (tab range) and was consistent but no ferrocheck reading.
Tried F75: surface was 74-75 as normal but no response when buried.

Tried both detectors at max Sens and in default settings. Both tried in all metal modes too, Legend still hitting at 22 so that at least consistent.
Yes we had electrical storm nearby but no military planes known or observed. If that dime had registered as 22 yesterday I probably would have passed as experience shows thats been a folded beavertail tab (so far and yes I know it could be a ring but usually not a solid hit, more chirpy).
Leaving coin buried and will try again when dirt drier and again when mainly dry.

Elmy says wont sound off in disturbed ground, ie putting back in hole and replacing the plug. Question that brings up is how do the guys detecting fields after farmer plows finding coins/relics that come up from discing the fields? Items are not primarily surface and most reports are anything from surface to various depths.

Change the ground setting to neutral for disturbed/moved dirt, disc'd or plowed fields. If your detector has that setting or similar feature.