Foil and Rings

[Nick A]

Confirm or deny this. When you get a foil hit on the CZ you can hear the depth... I mean, shallow sound shallow i.e. louder, and deeper ones sound softer.

Sometimes I get a deeper sounding foil hit and when I go to pinpoint it becomes loud and obviously shallow yet the meter shows a greater depth. So it SOUNDS like a piece of can slaw at 1" but the meter says it's at 4 or 5".

Am I correct in thinking that if the foil signal behaves erratically that it is *most likely* trash, and that a ring would give a cleaner hit and more accurate (or more expected, or maybe more "coin like") response?

Interested in hearing what others think on this one.

 

[AllenOK]

I've learned to tell the difference in size of targets while in Auto-Tune. A thin, soft sound that comes and goes REALLY fast is a small, shallow target, usually foil, but sometimes other things.

HH from Allen in OK

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Gold rings just hit harder as they are many times heavier than a piece of foil or can slaw..As far as depth and foil for some reason on most machines I have used they show several inches in depth and are basically 1/2 or so in actual depth and don't ask me to explain as I can't while a thin gold ring will show actual depth in most cases...for your info from Fisher research approx. 1/3 of gold rings found with a CZ come in in the foil facet...

 

[JM]

the thin ring I found sounded different to foil yet came in just above with a clear deep tone sound .

 

[Jackpine Savage]

It all depends on the foil shape. Flat unfolded thin foil can be loud if the piece is big enough but so can waded up chewing gum wrappers. One time while hunting a ballfield my very first target hit was foil and I dug a thin mans wedding band. The next 20 or so identical sounding foil hits were, you guessed it, waded up chewing gum wrappers.

Tom

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Some of the old units especially Tesoro's didn't have all the bells and whistles but they had better audio variances..I actually prefer regular pinpoint as gold rings usually hold a tone longer to some degree to cut down the odds. However with a CZ and VCO no chance of sizing however VCO properly used is deadly at pinpointing especially deep targets..There is more lost jewelry in parks that one thinks as due to the junk(foil, can slaw, multiple tabs) and the like most are missed. If your in an area where nickles are prevalent without much higher coins bet your boots some gold rings are around as those that have swung before you discriminated high and missed the gold signals.
If someone invents a unit that can tell gold rings would be a hot seller, but parks would be quickly cleaned out and may be a minus rather than a plus for the hobby...

 

[jim tn]

You are right about the audio variances of some machines. One of the best gold ring machines I've ever had was a Tesoro Golden Sabre 11. Gold hits were just a little softer and mellower then the tabs, foil and slaw. I do, though, dig all foil hits with my cz3d. The majority, of course, are just that but, almost all of the gold rings I've found with the cz3d hit as foil. Hh jim tn

 

[Jackpine Savage]

is not so overly sensitive to the small foil bits that they waste your time helps. Also, a good TID comes in handy, one that locks well on rings that fall in the mid to upper foil range is a god send.
Mens bands that fall in the tab range above nickels are a real crapshoot for park hunters.
I keep promoting the ID Edge as a good all around hunter... but, it just does Sooo many things well!

Tom

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Personally when I hunt a park for clad and gold rings I use a digital CZ and accept foil, nickle and coins all and dig all which gives me all the coins except Zinc pennies, small thin gold womans rings with good stones, larger sterling rings in the area from tabs to zinc so much junk my CZ would sound like a machine gun..Thats the plus of a digital CZ over a analog..for pure silver hunting its a toss up which unit you wish to use..I am sure every individual who has used his unit for any period of time has his own way of cutting down the odds and some time its just the sound of the target or perhaps a gut feeling..however you do it try to cut down the odds as digging every target is insanity at least in my neck of the woods and imagine similiar situations in your area. Will I miss gold rings using the above method, sure will but then again look at all the junk I will have to dig in that tabs to Zinc area...amd still get close to half of the gold rings in the area if my coil goes over one..Company that comes out with a unit that can tell a gold ring( if thats possible) at a reasonable price will sure have a hot seller

 

[jmaryt]

not possible dan!..at least for now!..always will have a "dead nuts" exact electronic signal!..maybe with digital technology,and dealing in nano second recovery speeds,perhaps being able to alter the detector's response to the different metals MAY be possible,only time and research will tell!

(h.h!)
j.t

 

[Dan-Pa.]

If such a unit was possible our local parks would be cleaned of gold rings just like silver coins are, sort of first one to hit a local park would really put a dent in the gold ring population and would probably hurt the hobby rather than enhance it. In any case due to different size rings and above all what metals they are mixed with surely presents a challenge for the powers to be..

 

[jmaryt]

yes that's true dan,but isn't it nice to dream?

 

[jmaryt]

i agree,and to add that the ONLY help you get is when you check depth,and determine that the target HAS some depth to it,because GENERALLY as we all know,gold is a heavier metal and will be found at a deeper depth than aluminum trash,USUALLY,but NOT always!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

I don't know why but on every unit I ever used small pieces of foil even an inch or so deep show them to be much deeper which certainly adds to how hard gold rings are to find. Good rule of thumb surely is a deep tab signal is more likely to be a gold ring but I have found more than one 5-6 inch tab..Don't fool yourself some learned individuals that know their units well can cut down the odds thru sizing, harmonics, audio variances and one west coast dealer was actually invited to a major manufacturer and proved the point he could cut down the odds using the above but the manufacturer sort of downplayed it as it was under lab conditions, but did mention it in one of their publications. I would advise anyone who is looking for gold rings to do some experimenting and perhaps find that little edge.
I know after many years of hunting using some machines, harmonic, sizing and audio variances do cut down the odds but of course no method is 100 percent but even if its 50 percent you have increased your odds. Surprising what you can come up with using a handful of gold rings and junk that imitates them on a cold snowy winter days thru experimentation. I have heard many learned detectorist say there is no way to tell even partially and digging all is the only way. Either they don't want to give away trade secrets or just can't but indeed I know one can cut down the odds using the above even though still haven't figured it out 100 percent.Remember it takes a good ear and good headphones and some determination but some differences although slight are there as lets face it a gold ring might weigh 20 plus times the junk that imitates it and sure a key or fishing lead weight can fool you but its all part of the hobby...

 

[captainbottletop]

I think their must be a way to somehow electronically tell a gold ring from a pull tab or foil or a bottle top. many have said it impossible to do. . . Having a target shape display feature would be a start.. My own guess is that some kind of computer analyser circuit would be needed that accurately measures the targets size ,thickness, shape , and conductivity and inductance , and some how computes all this information from a pre programmed set of data that is tested from buried rings and tabs and foil. My own guess is that no one has done any research into the subject of rings vs pull tab and foil discrimination. I believe it will one day be possible to tell a ring from a pull tab or foil.. Not for another 100 years maybe though!!

 

[Dan-Pa.]

I think such a project would be cost prohibitive and may take something out of the hobby..Heck I don't know if I have 10 years left not alone a hundred at least to enjoy hobby...I imagine climbing hill and and dale at 80 or so would be a chore more than a hobby...
Different size rings, different kt. ratings and above all what is mixed with gold all add to the mystery...Am sure everyone has their way to cut down the odds thru, sizing, harmonics and audio variances to name a few so get to know your machine...

 

[jackintexas]

Most of the older detectors like the Golden Sabre and some others did not have the power output as most of todays detectors. It was easier to tell the difference between different metals than todays detectors which strive for more and more depth.