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Fisher DP did horrible on rusty nail test

jerry123

Member
Placed nail and quarter side by side and ran my 3 detectors in several directions. First my Minelab xterra 70 0 discrimination. Would only pick up quarter in one direction. Garret AT pro 0 disc picked up quarter in all directions. Some signals in one direction slightly broken still digable signals. Fisher gold bug DP 0 disc would only pick up the quarter in one direction. I would have never guessed that the Garret would outperform my Minelab and fisher in this test.
Has anyone tried a similar test ?



Jerry
 
Many variables can be assumed between tests of separate machines. Did you try different sweep speeds with each machine? Many tests in this respect are on this forum in the past posts and show varying results. I will say this though I have removed several pieces of iron from several holes to find good targets beneath that the bug did not miss. but no machine is immune to masking. Try this, set your nail and quarter turn sensitivity to 50% and see what happens. Then set disc at 40 see what happens. You should get the quarter but with a skewed vdi.
HH
Digit
 
I was just reading a post by NASA Tom about head to head testing and this might be a good test case.
Zero Disc , from 3 different detectors is just a starting point of reference. .
Each one can have built in Disc and zero Disc to one might not be zero to another A better test would be to adjust each detector to peak performance against itself .
Then see how thy mach up.using similar size and type of coils.
 
I put the 5 in gold coil on the gold bug DP and did the same test I did with the 11 in DD coil, quarter with rusty nail next to it. The results were night and day. I got solid good signals all directions. A couple sweeps had a slight grunt with a high tone. In every direction the tone was a digable target. Should of put the 5 1n coil on the first test.
The 5 in coil is a killer !!!!!

Jerry
 
Through the years and decades that detectors have been around we have seen an assortment of detector 'tests' or 'comparisons' done using one nail, an assortment of nails, nails spaced ina row, and nails 'X' stacked on top of a coin. And through these many, many years we have seen more and more detectors struggle to give a 'beep' on a coin in an iron nail masking situation. Why? Technology progression and all the super-duper detector 'advancement' is one reason, and we can add increased 'digital' processing to the mix, too.

If we roll the clock back roughly 40+ years we had Compass Electronics enter the detector business and as I recall, testing detectors in and amongst iron nails seemed to start to show up more about that time. By about 1970 we saw a real surge in T/R (Transmit/Receive aka I/B or Induction/Balance) detectors beating out the BFO designs. A good old T/R detector, prior to any Discrimination circuitry, would usually do well in and around iron nails. A few might give a slight response to iron nails, many would slightly null on them, but for the most part, the good old T?R design simply 'ignored' iron nails. At the time, Compass detectors seems to excel on providing a great response to a coil in an iron nail mix.

Once we got T/T-Discriminators they seemed to work fairly well, if they adjusted low enough, but some had a little more rejection at the minimum setting and might work, just not work well enough. Then just about the mid-70's we had the first VLF (Very Low Frequency or Ground Cancelling circuitry) detectors hit the market. The beauty was that they adjust to ignore or cancel or balance the ground mineral signal. The results were that these models ignored the ground mineral but responded to ALL targets, ferrous and non-ferrous, and today we usually just call them an All Metal search mode.

If you are in All Metal accept, then you'll get a positive 'beep' to all ferrous and non-ferrous targets. Shortly after we had 'dual mode' models with a Threshold-based All Metal mode and a traditional T/R-Disc. mode. Hunt to find anything (All Metal) and switch to 'traditional' or 'conventional' T/R Discrimination to check for a rejected or accepted target. Some of the T/R-Disc. modes didn't adjust very low so as to just ignore iron nails like the straight T/R's did, and with a higher minimum Disc. setting some had difficulty with iron nails, and some other typical challenging iron trash ... such as crown-type bottle caps and small pieces of rusty tin.

Well, times change and as we progress things aren't necessarily better. Different, improved in some ways, but not always as good in other respects. When we got the VLF-Disc. (motion-based Discrimination), like we use today on virtually every make and model, other things came into play, such as difficulty rejecting some problems trash (especially those blasted bottle caps), and even iron nails. So, with those cautions to consider, here is how I reviewed or interpreted your post.:

jerry123 said:
Placed nail and quarter side by side and ran my 3 detectors in several directions.
For comparison sake, all of us here in the USA know the size and shape and consistency of the US 25
 
I just took all of my detectors out in the driveway to do some testing. I set the discrimination to just knock-out a screw cap which is in the zinc penny range. I placed a quarter in the middle of a circle of trash for the test. The test was, would I dig or not dig from the information that I got from the detector. Guess which one did the best?

Gold Bug Pro - 5 x 10 DD coil - passed
Quantum XT - 9.5 inch coil - failed
Vaquero - 8 x 9 inch coil - passed
Golden uMax - 8 x 9 inch coil - passed
Bandido II uMax - 7 inch concentric coil - passed :)
Compadre - 5.75 inch coil - passed
Omega - 10 inch elliptical coil - failed
Gamma - 11 inch DD coil - failed

I'm sure that the Omega and the Gamma would have passed if they were fitted with either the 5 inch DD coil or the 5 x 10 inch DD coil.

I'll say it again, the 5 inch DD coil and the 5 x 10 inch DD coil are must haves.

Keep in mind it's just a clad quarter in the test, but it could just as well be a prized silver quarter in the field that gets passed over.


CoinTest001.jpg


tabman
 
Tabman thanks for the test. I am surprised the compadre failed only because of the small coil used.
Where you doing this from 360 degree rotation.
I ask only because of your wide choice of detectors.
It would be interesting to see as your shrink the trash circle closer to the coin.
Who would be last machine standing.
 
gmanlight said:
Tabman thanks for the test. I am surprised the compadre failed only because of the small coil used.
Where you doing this from 360 degree rotation.
I ask only because of your wide choice of detectors.
It would be interesting to see as your shrink the trash circle closer to the coin.
Who would be last machine standing.

Yeah, I coming at the target from all different directions. If I'm still getting a repeated beep after I thumb up the discrimination to knock out a zinc penny/screw cap, I'm digging. The problem that I was having with the digital read out detectors, they beeped, but the ID number was saying it was a screw cap/pull tab.

The best thing anyone can do is to do their own testing with their own detectors. This waving a coin past a coil, sure looks impressive when the detector spits out the correct ID, but depth and trash around the coin will alter the ID greatly. The Mercury dime that I found using the Gold Bug Pro with the 5" coil was 8 inches deep and it was telling me it was a pull tab. Since the target was so faint, I dug on a hunch that it was something good.

I wanted to put the 5 inch coil on the GB and the 5 inch and 5 x 10 DD coils on the Gamma and Omega to test those combinations, but changing out coils with a broken arm is doable, but really slow going.:blink:

If I'm hitting a really trashy site, the Gold Bug Pro with its 5 inch coil attached will be in the car ready for action. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?80,1609366

tabman
 
gmanlight said:
Tabman thanks for the test. I am surprised the compadre failed only because of the small coil used.

The Compadre did pass the test.:thumbup:

tabman
 
wonder how that test would go with a zinc penny? could you tell the penny from the caps?

my main trash is not iron but caps and can slaw etc..

GBP and 5in coil is very good IMHO in modern trash site what do you guys think?

BP
 
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