I own a new Fisher CZ 3D but of course it's not a 1021 !!! So I'm told that to make this unit function at peak levels it should be "retuned" by NASA Tom?? Why????? Is it not the job of the Fisher factory to send me a new detector........designed to operate at peak performance???? Are they so inept that they don't know how to tune a product that they are producing or worse yet...... that they don't care!!! I think the Dave J and the gang should bring NASA Tom into the factory to teach and give their production staff a seminar on......... how to maximize their product. I find it ridiculous that a new product should be shipped to a third party...and pay a third party to make a new detector function at "new from the factory...top notch performance level". But more and more I am finding out on this forum that it is the case.Would it be OK for a new oven or a refridgerator to have to be sent out for max tuning after it was just delivered to you from the factory....what gives???
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Fisher doesn't know what it's doing???
- Thread starter Ivan
- Start date
Frank in NH
Active member
Ivan good question, maybe it is not cost effective to do it right? Maybe Dave J. has an answer?
JASONSPAZ1
New member
I agree. This is a good question. Years ago I almost purchased a cz3d. As soon as I heard about sending it to a 3rd party to maximize performance, I disregarded the 3D.
mrwilburino
Member
Here is Dave Johnson's explanation of what happened with the CZ3D calibration process:
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?23,2247336,2247672#msg-2247672
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?23,2247336,2247672#msg-2247672
Years ago I got a CZ3D. My favorite CZ of them all was the CZ5 as I had owned three and NEVER had an issue or poor performance of what it was capable of. The first CZ I had was a CZ6 modified to CZ6a. It was OK but I liked the CZ5 better. Then I got the CZ3D and after several trips to maybe a half-dozen old big city parks, that had been very productive for older coins and trade tokens, ... time-after-time, hunt-after-hunt, the CZ3D was proving itself to be one expensive, highly touted, piece of crap!
The final straw for me with that junk unit was when I was working a park where I had pulled 'V' Nickels and Buffalo Nickels during the prior six months along with Indian Heads, early-date Wheat-Backs, and Barber Dimes and Quarters and some Mercury Dimes. My goal, after hearing all the big talk about the 3D was to concentrate on two areas where old Nickels had been found most often as I was looking specifically for them .... or anything old. Four hours and no Nickels or Pull-Tabs, and I marked several targets prior to recovery.
I then used my White's XLT and modified IDX Pro, which I had used to double-check the targets located with the CZ3D, and I searched this same area and marked targets. The CZ3D didn't give a decent audio response on them, the TID was not stable and it was inaccurate on most. I then started to recover Pull Tabs and Nickels that the mighty CZ3D wasn't giving a decent response on. I also did a few test comparisons on carefully planted Zinc Cents at the bottom of a measured 4" plug. Even my modified IDX Pro provided stellar performance when the CZ3D spit and sputtered and didn't sound good or give a TID.
I feel the same way about a manufacturer producing a quality detector by using their own quality parts and their own in-house team and formal calibration techniques. To me, if a detector maker is going to supply me and other consumers with the best performance detector, it has to be built that way from the start, and that means they should also make an excellent assortment of search coils in order to be assured they can make an excellent performing detector.
In this case I have been rather bothered by the activities at White's the last few years. They have the most versatile and adjustable detector in their top-dollar V3i, then a couple of years ago they send out the flyers to tell consumers to get improved performance and depth and make it better, you need to buy the Bulgarian-made aftermarket Detech Ultimate search coil. That was followed by them doing a terrible rush-to-market introduction of their new MX Sport with a new 10" DD coil, and you can buy their own 950 Concentric or 6X10 DD ... but no smaller-size search coil!
They develop a brand new detector, but don't make an in-house smaller coil for it? Nope, they have a new 7" coil made for them by the Bulgarian Detech coil maker. You look at their Accessories page and those two foreign-made, after-market coils are two of the first four or five items listed. To me that doesn't say much about a company's abilities to design a really good, all-purpose detector if they can't make their own all-purpose search coils.
Oh well, just rambling a bit as I agree with you about a manufacturer making things right and not having to rely on an outside source [size=small](for circuitry tweaking or search coil options)[/size].
Monte
The final straw for me with that junk unit was when I was working a park where I had pulled 'V' Nickels and Buffalo Nickels during the prior six months along with Indian Heads, early-date Wheat-Backs, and Barber Dimes and Quarters and some Mercury Dimes. My goal, after hearing all the big talk about the 3D was to concentrate on two areas where old Nickels had been found most often as I was looking specifically for them .... or anything old. Four hours and no Nickels or Pull-Tabs, and I marked several targets prior to recovery.
I then used my White's XLT and modified IDX Pro, which I had used to double-check the targets located with the CZ3D, and I searched this same area and marked targets. The CZ3D didn't give a decent audio response on them, the TID was not stable and it was inaccurate on most. I then started to recover Pull Tabs and Nickels that the mighty CZ3D wasn't giving a decent response on. I also did a few test comparisons on carefully planted Zinc Cents at the bottom of a measured 4" plug. Even my modified IDX Pro provided stellar performance when the CZ3D spit and sputtered and didn't sound good or give a TID.
I feel the same way about a manufacturer producing a quality detector by using their own quality parts and their own in-house team and formal calibration techniques. To me, if a detector maker is going to supply me and other consumers with the best performance detector, it has to be built that way from the start, and that means they should also make an excellent assortment of search coils in order to be assured they can make an excellent performing detector.
In this case I have been rather bothered by the activities at White's the last few years. They have the most versatile and adjustable detector in their top-dollar V3i, then a couple of years ago they send out the flyers to tell consumers to get improved performance and depth and make it better, you need to buy the Bulgarian-made aftermarket Detech Ultimate search coil. That was followed by them doing a terrible rush-to-market introduction of their new MX Sport with a new 10" DD coil, and you can buy their own 950 Concentric or 6X10 DD ... but no smaller-size search coil!
They develop a brand new detector, but don't make an in-house smaller coil for it? Nope, they have a new 7" coil made for them by the Bulgarian Detech coil maker. You look at their Accessories page and those two foreign-made, after-market coils are two of the first four or five items listed. To me that doesn't say much about a company's abilities to design a really good, all-purpose detector if they can't make their own all-purpose search coils.
Oh well, just rambling a bit as I agree with you about a manufacturer making things right and not having to rely on an outside source [size=small](for circuitry tweaking or search coil options)[/size].
Monte
Unknownroad
New member
Would a CZ-21 need to be re calibrated as well if I picked up a used one?
Dave Johnson - the guy who designed the CZ's once commented that they seldom go out of adjustment. That's not to say that every one was addjusted perfectly to begin with. The consensus seems to be that they are set up correctly at the fxtory now. The bery large number of discrete components however means tht they will vary in their performance detector to detector, even when the3y are set up per specifictions.
Sataro
Active member
I look at this in a different perspective. I just bought a used CZ3D. Depth is very good. ID seems to lock on exactly as it should. Should I pay Nasa Tom to retune it when it should have come from the factory tuned & ready to go? The original question was why should I have to retune it if Fisher did their job correctly in the first place. My simple theory is my opinion only & so take it as such....
Growing up in the 60/70's era, hotrods were the norm. You take a perfectly good running motor & yank the exhaust system out. Drop in a set of headers on the motor. Pull the four barrel carb & replace it with a larger double pumper Holley. Or replace the intake manifold & drop double carbs on the motor. Maybe drop a blower unit on the motor. Replace the factory cam woth a high performance after market cam. The original factory motor ran great before you started dropping big bucks into it. Why then did we drop all these after market parts into it? To improve upon the performance level of that motor.
This is where Nasa Tom comes into play. He will retune that detector to get it to be at its very best performance. Fisher quality control specs will not be as eact as Nasa Tom will retune it.
Growing up in the 60/70's era, hotrods were the norm. You take a perfectly good running motor & yank the exhaust system out. Drop in a set of headers on the motor. Pull the four barrel carb & replace it with a larger double pumper Holley. Or replace the intake manifold & drop double carbs on the motor. Maybe drop a blower unit on the motor. Replace the factory cam woth a high performance after market cam. The original factory motor ran great before you started dropping big bucks into it. Why then did we drop all these after market parts into it? To improve upon the performance level of that motor.
This is where Nasa Tom comes into play. He will retune that detector to get it to be at its very best performance. Fisher quality control specs will not be as eact as Nasa Tom will retune it.
WV62
Well-known member
Well I don't understand what or why, but I sent my ex CZ3D off to Nasa Tom for calibrations. I think he gave it a good work over and tried to get as much out of it as he could and he was giving me reports as the work was going on.
The end result was not very good and I ask him about that and he said some he could get to read a dime at 11+ inches and some only around 8". So if I remember right mine came back with a 8.125" sticker.
I didn't try to hide that information but I put it up for sale and you can't run fast enough to give another one.
Just my take on the CZ3D, if they can't do any better than that then they should drop that detector from their line.
Ron in WV
The end result was not very good and I ask him about that and he said some he could get to read a dime at 11+ inches and some only around 8". So if I remember right mine came back with a 8.125" sticker.
I didn't try to hide that information but I put it up for sale and you can't run fast enough to give another one.
Just my take on the CZ3D, if they can't do any better than that then they should drop that detector from their line.
Ron in WV
Factory fresh works just fine. .. Tom has the ability to tune them to perfection. Any mass produced detector has a plus and minus acceptable guide line.
Some are a little better than others. I had a CZ5 that was awesome. I had one that was average from the factory. Plus and minus factor on matching parts and settings..
Send it to Tom for max performance and you will be very happy..
Some are a little better than others. I had a CZ5 that was awesome. I had one that was average from the factory. Plus and minus factor on matching parts and settings..
Send it to Tom for max performance and you will be very happy..
Zinc Penny
Member
CZ-3D was a great machine when I owned one and probably the one machine that I regret selling as it found more gold rings and jewelry than any machine that I have owned after.