First hunt for the season and 10X12 SEF.

[Ron from Michigan]

Finally got out for a hunt.The SEF looks nice mounted on my Sovereign and even air tested well.Went to a local park the last time I was there four people were searching at my favorite park.This park was worked out and now lets see what the SEF 10x12 coil will do performance wise.My Sovereign was set with the sensitivity at nine o clock position,discrimination and notch lowest setting,band 2, discrimination mode and volume control max.First I noticed the 10X12 SEF coil is quite and stable the sensitivity could have been set higher.After a couple steps I was having high tones and 180 hits on my meter to my surprise these were deep green Lincoln pennies.My worked out park was producing 8-9 inch pennies and dimes with ease.I did loose a couple of targets even with the S-1 probe.There is silver at this park but very hard to find,I got a nice round signal with a stead 180 and dug a 8 plus inch Mercury dime.My opinion,the SEF 10X12 has the separation close or better than the 800 Tornado and more depth than the 1000 Tornado.Even with out the scuff cover noticed the extra weight.Bottom line if you search on land you won't find a better coil for the Sovereign,this brings the performance to a new level with this detector for depth and target separation.I would purchase one of these before they are gone.Thanks HH Ron

 

[gear box]

Nice report Ron, you are so lucky to get out, we are still frozen in here but the weather is finally turning for the better. I got my 12x10 last fall and I got to use it a few times before winter and I agree it's an awesome coil. The soil was pretty dry last fall and I'm pretty excited to get out again with the moist soil and ideal conditions that spring usually brings.
HH Gary

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Gary,the weather was warmer here than predicted 60 degrees,nice day at the park.Critter was right about this coil.Thanks Ron

 

[Critterhunter]

Ron! Glad you seem to like your initial impressions of it. Some people might think "8 or 9 inches on a penny no big deal in my soil." Well, for *all* these Minelabs, any of their line up of machines, that kind of depth on a dime or penny in some people's soils is a big feat. For me and my FBS friends I hunt with 8 or 9" is not always an easy cake walk to wiggle up the proper ID/tone, especially in dry conditions, but for sure the 12x10 makes this more "effortless" for me at the same spots where I've pulled coins that deep with the 10" Tornado.

The weight thing...You mean you noticed the extra weight compared to your 8" Tornado, right? Because without a coil cover the 12x10 to me is noticeably lighter (and is as well on a scale) than the 10" Tornado with a coil cover still on. Next felt fatigued with the 12x10 and I use 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner on the bottom to ditch the coil cover. Only adds about 2/10ths of an ounce, as compared to several ounces using the coil cover. The S-12 without a coil cover is only a half ounce heavier than the 12x10 but feels heavier on the shaft to me due to it's more towards the back mounting point. After a few hours with the S-12 I begin to notice that, although to be fair I keep the coil cover on the S-12 since it's a loaner.

You said separation close or better than the 8" Tornado? I'd assume you mean left/right separation wise? If so, yep, the sharpness of the DD line on the 12x10 is sharper than any coil I ever used, big or small. Haven't used the 8" Tornado enough yet to tell if it's DD line is as sharp, but even if it's not the 8 and 10" Tornado have very sharp DD lines just the same. Not all DD coils are as good in that respect. Just the same, no doubt the 8" Tornado will outshine a larger coil in terms of length wise separation, and that can make all the difference in unmasking stuff surrounded by a ring of trash unless you grid from several angles with a larger coil to miss all forward/aft trash to a coin. I was not happy with the appearance *for me* of the width wise separation of the S-5 I had and that's why I wanted a 7.25" eight inch Tornado.

Did you notice the louder bark of the 12x10 and the more crisp/treble like tone it gives?

Also, just for kicks...Try swinging long over a deep fringe target and increase and decrease your speed. I find the 12x10 for me prefers a somewhat faster sweep to hit harder at max depth than the typical Minelab 4 second crawl. Might be my soil though, but I remember you saying your 8" Tornado can be swung faster for you, so maybe the 12x10 as well. And don't worry about separation, even at a what might be called approaching a medium sweep speed for a Whites the thing will separate fantastic.

Did you notice it feels like the machine has been sped up? Sharper DD line = Faster "turn the page" between say seeing the nail and seeing the coin next to it. And even though the center will separate outstandingly, if you want to inspect a mixed signal even more laser like wiggle the last 2" or so of the coil's tip at the target and it'll slice and dice with razor blade precision to inspect things.

Wiggling up a target ID/tone at depth- Takes a slightly different "rhythm" than typical DD coils do to the sharper DD line. Like strumming a guitar with a pic versus your thumb. Not harder. Easier in fact, just a bit different timing and length to your short "strumming" with it.

If PPing is giving you issues using the center of the coil due to nearby trash or iron, wiggle the tip forward while in disc and soon as you hear the coin response it'll be right at the base of the "V" shape at the edge of the coil. Doing this at two angles you are pretty much dead on.

I'm telling you, this coil I feel pushes these Minelabs that last little bit to the edge of what VLF technology has to offer in terms of depth and unmasking (separation). Unless another detector comes out based on some totally new non-VLF technology I don't see how it can get any better for the most part. In a discriminating detector, that is. Those Deeptech units look interesting in terms of depth for what they are but I'm suspecting PP mode on the GT might pretty much offer the same abilities for me, other than the fine gold chain sensitivity thing.

So hey Ron....That ain't good enough. Here's hoping you've got many more future field reports on this coil, and I'm waiting eagerly to read Rick's opinion and anybody elses as well. Reading this stuff is the next best thing to hunting to me. Much better than what's on TV, and also no spit shine put on things like in detecting magazines sometimes. I like to hear it all, good or bad.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here's an excellent post from Bryce on the depth of Minelabs in various soils. He's talking of his Explorer of course but it goes to show that 8 or 9" isn't always a sure thing for some of us in our soils. Just thought it would be useful input for those who might think "8 or 9 inches on a penny or dime isn't a big deal for me". Maybe in other people's soils but in many of ours that's not always a sure thing.

I have dug coins deeper than 8 or 9" in my soil with the GT but those are the exceptions rather than the rule at many of my sites, and usually when I get a dime or penny beyond 9" it's in good moisture conditions. I've got one site I dug a indian and a V in two separate holes with the GT and stock 10" Tornado at around 11 inches plus deep. They both hit hard and ID'ed easily.

Same site in dry conditions 8 or 9" takes some effort. Still been meaning to hit this site with the 12x10 in ideal wet conditions, but it's popping me 8 or 9" wheats there in bone dry conditions easier than the 10" Tornado did. I've found though too wet of soil can have just as bad impact on depth as too dry. Washes out the halo I suspect. This is all in relation to soil here. In the sand depth limitations in wet or dry sand tend to increase in depth ranges for me.

Here's that re-quote of Bryce's excellent depth realities for even our Minelabs, but keep in mind if our Minelabs are running into brick walls in some respects depth wise in certain soils, then imagine what issues other brands might be having at the same sites. I know only a few of the best non-Minelabs I've owned or used over the years could reach about 7.5" max on a silver dime in my soil. Never could get past that barrier until owning my Minelabs (Explorers or now my GT)...

Rayski....for starters....Explorers HATE disturbed ground

I would estimate that 50% of the silver dimes, wheaties, and Injuns' I have found in the last 4 years have come from the 8" to 10" depth range.

I would also estimate that about 20% have come from the 10" to 11" depth range in cleaner ground. (I have found plenty at a true measured 11" depth)

The other 30% I have found are either mixed in with trash....under trash...on trash...mixed in with iron...under iron....laying on iron....on edge....etc...at depths anywhere from 2" to 11". I actually found a barber dime on edge one time that was next to a bottle cap at only 4" deep...honestly. You just never know.

I found countless deep silver and injuns' in the 8" to as deep as 9" range (plenty of 9" ones" with the 6" Excelerator).

All the 10"+ deep coins came with the 10 x 12 SEF, Minelb Pro, 12" Sunray...etc....and a few 10" ones with the 6 x 8 SEF.

Most ANY good coin hit in the 9" to 11" depth range WILL NOT have that textbook sweet, consistent sound. They WILL be broken and chattery BUT with time you will be able to recognize that sound.

Just this year alone I dug at least 100 keeper coins (silver, injuns', and wheaties) that were in excess of 10" deep and probably closer to 11".

The other several hundres keeper coins were found in the range and conditions I stated here in my IL soil.

In the last few years I have found a handful of wheaties and silver dimes at a true measured 12" depth...and 1 silver dollar....but those depths are VERY rare and happen for me maybe 2 to 3 times each year.

The key is for you to learn that "broken" yet sweet sound over an 8" to 10" deep silver coin.

The next step will be for you to learn that same sweet sound...BUT learning that sound when the coin is mixed in with trash or iron.

That's a whole different ballgame..and it just takes time. Give it some time and a LOT of practice.

The explorers are GREAT machines.

The thread it came from is a good read and can be found here...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?10,1587451,1588219#msg-1588219

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Critter,the sweep speed is faster than I expected with the 10X12 SEF and yes the wiggle seems to work different.The small 800 Tornado coil has been my main coil so the weight comparison is made with this coil.The SEF hits very hard on small targets and was surprised with my sweep speed increased it didn't lag or null like the 10 inch Tornado performance actually seem to get better.Looking forward to more time in the field.At this point I see the SEF coil as a keeper with the 800 coil and will be used a lot in my worked out parks.Thanks Ron

 

[Critterhunter]

Ron, that's my game plan too- 12x10 for most land use with the 8" Tornado in super heavy trash. I'm amazed and completely confident with the 12x10's ability to sniff coins out of heavy iron or other trash, but no doubt the 8" Tornado's shorter DD length will unmask some stuff without as much need to work a spot from different angles in some situations. 13" Ultimate for big wide open areas on days I want to grid even faster than the 12x10's nice improvement over stock in that respect. 10" Tornado stays on my water rig (stock shaft) as I don't care for the drag of the SEFs in the water.

Might replace my loaner S-12 with a good cheap used price on one to use on my water rig for more coverage, but at this point I'm not even sure if the S-12 is as deep as the 10" Tornado in my soil/sands. Extra coverage in the water on some days would be a nice improvement though, even if *maybe* (not sure yet) it's not getting the depth for me of the Tornado. All depends on the minerals for people. Even if the S-12 appears not as deep for me in my soil/sands it might be deeper for others than the 10" Tornado. Not saying otherwise. It's a fine coil in all respects.

Less lag or nulling even with increased sweep speed- I think the super sharp DD line of the 12x10 for all intensive purposes speeds up the reaction time of the Sovereign. It'll more cleanly see the trash, then not see the trash as it moves, and so be ready to see a coin alone faster in some respects. Like cleanly turning the page in a book to be ready to read the next page is the way I think of it. That's the deal with lowering iron rejection on some machines to unmask coins in iron better IMO. It's mainly lowering the lag time of rejection mode of the iron and so more ready to accept the coin.

Seen this with my own eyes comparing hits on badly masked coins in the field for a few years here. The GT with it's built in iron rejection but using the 12x10, versus another flag ship silver killer using very minimal iron rejection and otherwise no other discrimination. Not once did either machine hit these coins better than the other. A few years back I would have laid money on either a faster recovery speed or lowering iron rejection as the only two paths to better unmasking.

Now I see there is another way to skin that unmasking cat. Recovery speed is a non-issue so long as you aren't launching golf balls with the coil, and just as important a machine can't see what a coil can't see separately. The coil's ability to sharply see one thing and not another next to it is the foundation where it all begins IMO.

Won't argue which paths are more important than the others, just that the end result seems to be a wash unmasking wise from what I've seen in the field when comparisons have been made. Besides, Iron Mask ON on the GT seems to work some wonders for me in sounding off to non-ferrous stuff in iron even when not using the 12x10 with it's ultra sharp DD line. The Sovereign tries very hard to sound off to any non-ferrous aspects of a mixed signal by the looks of it IMO.

 

[deepdiger60]

That 12x10 kicks ass it really goes deep even better on beaches . Good hunt Jim

 

[Maxwedge]

GREAT HUNT RON. KEEP IT UP-MARK

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Second search same park got deep green Lincolns,clad and a 1962 Roosevelt dime.The SEF coil seems to find coins on their edge better, but this is a guess at this point.Didn't notice the weight as much.My first two searches in the same worked out park is a good start for the season.HH Ron

 

[deepdiger60]

Ron when i got the SEF a few weeks ago i hunted my small front grass area that has been hunted for years and i pulled out 2 nice green wheats deeper then the rest of the precious coins . Jim

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Jim,so far very impressed with this coil.Yelp we all know there is on such thing as a worked out park.Thanks Ron

 

[Critterhunter]

Ron, glad to hear you seem to like it so far. Two hunts- two silvers. Not bad at all for a "dead" park, as this coil will bring them back to life.

Yep, it will bang coins on edge better. The GT and stock 10" Tornado were fantastic at coins on edge like I never seen in machines I owned before, but the 12x10 I feel makes it even better at it. The Ultimate too I was loaned found me a coin or two on edge, and so did the 15x12 when I had it, but the 12x10 has found me tons of those since I bought it a few years ago. The Sovereign seems to have a very distinct up and down "warble" to coins on edge that to me is very distinct from trash. Rarely when I hear that sound does it turn out to be trash. And as I work my way around the coin many times I hit a few angles where the ID and tone are perfect as a coin should be, but then as I rotate it goes back to that high/low or up/down warble thing.

Best I can decribe it besides a video/pictorial I did trying to demonstrate the unique sound to a coin on edge, but being that the coin was staged and had no halo I found it went dead from some angles, which I rarely see with a coin on edge in the ground, and I would assume it's due to the halo that is generating a better image of it from some angles.

Also, I couldn't quite get the warble effect perfect with the staged coin to demonstrate, or at least not with the Sovereign's built in external speaker I needed to use so the camera could hear it. I'm rigging up a direct link of audio to the camera so I can wear headphones and also improve it's audio for future filming, and when I come across the next undug coin on edge I plan to film it and post the video so people can hear one of two unique sound traits they can have.

I've hunted "dead" pounded spots by people that I've also gridded in certain areas and knew I had dug any halfway decent coin signal with various machines over the years, and yet when I heard that warble I knew what it was going to be at several of these sites.

And many of these silvers or wheats weren't even deep, like say 2 or 3", but being on edge everybody including me had missed them in the past. Just the other day with the 12x10 I dug a standing liberty that was completely on end at about 7 to maybe 8" but it gave a perfect ID from all angles. Not all old coins will, some will warble at some angles over even from all angles sometimes but that sound is so distinct I know what it usually means.

 

[jspoon]

I got my 12x10 today, I haven't done any hunting yet except a little in my yard and I can tell already this coil will be a keeper. It ran real smooth and air tested with a coin on the ground appears to have better depth than my 10" stock. I'm going to take it to our city park and hopefully snag some old silver. I had rotator cuff surgery Mar 25th and my swinging arm/shoulder has to stay in a sling for 6 weeks, they tell me it can take 6-12 mos. to return to 100% ouch!
I'll just have to take it real easy and by June hopefully I should be up to speed. I'll keep you posted.
HH John

 

[GroundScanner]

j spoon when did you order the 12x10 ? I tried ordering one but was told there on order . Thanks

 

[jspoon]

j spoon when did you order the 12x10 ? I tried ordering one but was told there on order . Thanks

Last thurs. and I got the free shipping.

 

[GroundScanner]

I asked about the free shipping , i talked to jw and he said that the free shipping is over . He said there is some 12x10 coils on order.

 

[Critterhunter]

Second search same park got deep green Lincolns,clad and a 1962 Roosevelt dime.The SEF coil seems to find coins on their edge better, but this is a guess at this point.Didn't notice the weight as much.My first two searches in the same worked out park is a good start for the season.HH Ron

Ron, here's a mini-update from a while back concerning the S-12 I have on loan from somebody in comparison to the 12x10 and other coil's in it's size class. I also listed the exacte exact weight of my new 7.25" eight inch Tornado for contrast, as prior you had mentioned you could feel the weight of the 12x10 compared to your 8" Tornado. All weight is perspective I guess, because I find the 12x10 one heck of a light coil, but I haven't swung my 8" Tornado around enough yet to get spoiled with it... Just one hour testing hunt so far with that thing...

More weights of various coils and true sizes are in the coil sticky thread first page with a link to a coil weight/size chart. All weights are with the coil cable included on the scale. I keep putting off updating that size/weight/info chart in that thread, as it's a bear to re-do it with the added content and data I want to include in the next one, but the odds and ends of true coil weights done by owners through out that thread need re-organized into one easy updated chart to contrast...

Below I've listed some coil weights of coils in the size class of the 12x10 for comparison. These weights are ones by actual users, as we all know manufacturing specs can be somewhat "off" what the reality is.

One of the stellar things about the S-12's reputation, is that it is a very light coil, so we can finally put to rest any debate as to if it's lighter than the 12x10. Remember this- The FBS versions of the SEF coils appear to be a good bit heavier than the BBS versions, as is noted in the coil picture chart previously. The below coil weights are the BBS versions, except for of course the Pro Coil, which they don't make for the Sovereign or Excalibur. However, the Pro Coil has a reputation as being a fantastically light coil, so I'm listing it below as a rule of thumb reference in comparison to the others. All weights are in ounces. Remember, there are 16 ounces in a pound. If the actual size of the coil differs from it's name then I make note of that...

Eight Inch (7.25") Tornado...

With coil cover- 19.2 ounces
Without cover - 17.4 ounces
Coil cover alone- 1.8 ounces

11" FBS Pro Coil with coil cover................................19.75
12x10 without coil cover.............................................20
13" (12 & 1/2 x 13" wide) Ultimate without coil cover 20.2
Sun Ray S-12 (12.5") without coil cover.....................20.5
13" Ultimate with coil cover.........................................22.2
Sun Ray S-12 with coil cover......................................22.7
12x10 with coil cover..................................................22.8
10" Tornado without coil cover...................................23.1
15x12 without coil cover.............................................25
10" Tornado with coil cover........................................25.6
Old BBS 10" Coil with no coil cover...........................27.55
15x12 with coil cover.................................................28.7
WOT Coil (14.25") without coil cover.........................29.2
WOT Coil (List weight. With Cover?).........................32

As you can see, the 12x10 with coil cover is pretty much a dead match in weight to the S-12 with coil cover, but without a coil cover the 12x10 is a full half ounce lighter than the S-12 without a coil cover. These weights should finally put to rest the debate as to which coil is king of the hill in terms of weight, but regardless when we are talking weights these low, the Ultimate, 12x10, and S-12 are all VERY light coils. Look how close they come to the Pro Coil. Almost not worth mentioning weight wise!

I would suspect the Excelerator 14, 16, and 18" coils would be among the high end in weights along the lines of the WOT coil if not heavier, but far as I know nobody has ever weighed those. I think I posted some weights in the coil chart that I ran across that somebody weighed for those coils, but don't know if they the FBS or BBS versions, and I don't know if they were with the coil cable and coil cover on or off the scale.

Note: I deducted .2 (point 2) ounces from the weight of the 12x10 with and without coil cover, because it already had 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner on it to eliminate need of a coil cover. How did I arrive at that number? If you look in the coil weight chart thread I had weighed the 10" Tornado before and after applying the same amount of coats of spray on bed liner to it's bottom and sides like I did the 12x10, and found the Tornado picked up .2 ounces in weight because of that.

You might think that an few ounces saved by ditching a coil cover and using spray on bed liner is not really important, but I can tell you that even a couple ounces saved at the end of the shaft will make a big difference by the end of a long day's hunt. Not to mention it's so less hassle not having to clean under coil covers, and if you don't clean under them it CAN cause performance and stability issues.

Incidently, I already noted it but I'm going to mention it again real quick. If you notice in the pictures, the SEFs have the coil mount hole directly in the center of them, where as it appears the 10" Tornado and the S-12 have them more towards the back of the coil? Balance on a shaft can have as much to do with how good a coil feels on the shaft.

The Ultimate has it's shaft mounting hole dead center, like the 12x10, and though the 12x10 and Ultimate are dead matches in weight (just about), and although the 12x10 feels great on the end of the shaft, for some odd reason the Ultimate feels even better and lighter. I suspect it has something to do with the round shape of the Ultimate, equally balancing/distrubuting the weight of the coil all the way around the shaft.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Critter,thanks for the information,even though the stats show the weight is close, to me the SEF feels a lot heavier than the small 800 Tornado.HH Ron

 

[Critterhunter]

Ron, probably because the 8" Tornado's mass is more closer to the shaft. The bigger the coil, the more leverage with the same weight as it moves further from the shaft to feel that weight. Like trying to hold a yard stick at one end with two fingers for a few minutes, sooner or later it starts to feel pretty heavy.

The 8" Tornado has it's mounting point towards the back end of the coil, which should make the shaft nose heavy. Probably too small of a coil to feel that, but I can say that even though the Sun Ray S-12 is only slightly heavier than the 12x10 or 13" Ultimate, due to them both having center mounting points while the S-12 has it's more towards the back, the S-12 feels much heavier to me after a hour or two of hunting, more so than the above weight differences show between them.