Critterhunter
New member
Well, the Ultimate gets shipped back to it's owner in 4 days. And that will be with a sad and heavy heart, because I DO LIKE this coil. I feel it's well worthy of sitting along side my 12x10 and my 10" Tornado for certain days. The 10" Tornado is regulated to the stock shaft I use for my water rig, and the 12x10 normally stays on my light weight custom land shaft for most days. Only rarely would I take off the 12x10 to use the S-5. So why do I plan to acquire a 13" Ultimate if I already own a 12x10? Read on...
Distilled right up front the reason for that is this- The Ultimate I feel is different and unique enough in it's own way to not be replicating my 12x10 for certain land hunting situations. Where I fee the Ultimate has it's place is for large open fields or wide open beaches when I'm trying to grid out a large area faster. While the 12x10 is a nice improvement in coverage over the 10" Tornado, I find the Ultimate at 13" wide and 12 & 1/2" long makes coverage even more effortless. I find myself not having to hold back my steps to insure I cover every inch of ground in front of me without as much "thought" as I have to with the 12x10 or 10" Tornado. For that reason alone the Ultimate is a real joy to use in large open areas.
The 15x12 I owned also did that as well, but the Ultimate is lighter and feels more "right" on the end of the shaft then the 15x12 for me, even though the 15x12 is still lighter than the 10" Tornado if you remove the coil cover. Something about the round shape of the balance, even though it weighs the same as the 12x10 without a coil cover, just makes the Ultimate feel "lighter" on the end of the shaft. While I feel the 15x12 was a more stable coil, I feel it replicated the 12x10 in too many respects to where it would feel as if I'm using two of the same kinds of coils in my line up, where as the Ultimate is so distinctly different in certain ways and traits that I don't feel I'd be duplicating my 12x10 by also owning an Ultimate, while I would feel that way if I brought another 15x12 back into my line up. Hope you know what I mean here. Not saying the 15x12 isn't a good coil. Just that it'd be like owning two identical vehicles in my driveway when I'd want one for certain things (like say a truck), and another for other things (like say a car).
So of the strengths of the Ultimate? Besides it's great feel and balance on the shaft, and besides it's easy as pie coverage without as much thought at holding back my steps, the next strength would have to be that it makes targets at depth louder. Not that the 12x10 has any trouble making stuff at depth plenty loud enough to hear. Just that the Ultimate makes things louder than even that. Whether that translates into harder hits at depth than the 12x10 I'm not sure either way on, because thus far in all marked target head to head testing the Ultimate and the 12x10 have both seen targets at depth equally well to each other. I have yet to mark a target that one or the other hit better on. I would in particular recommend this coil to anybody with hearing problems, if even with the volume on your Sovereign all the way up and using good headphones, your hearing is so bad that you'd prefer even more volume. If that's the case then the Ultimate is your coil for that. The 12x10 is louder than the 10" Tornado, but the Ultimate is even a bit more so.
Now, does that translate to more depth? Haven't seen it myself yet. Not even sure if it's as deep as the 12x10 in my soil. Only thing I can offer is this depth wise- In careful repeated air testing the 12x10 time and time again showed me about a half inch more depth. And that was with both coils running stable at full blasted sensitivity, so it wasn't an issue with how high sensitivity was for either coil.
I can also add another test, where I buried a clad dime at 6 or 7" and then slowly lowered sensitivity with the 12x10 until I could no longer get ANY kind of response from the target at all. I then, without touching the dial, threw the Ultimate on and it couldn't hear it either, and as I then raised sensitivity it had to be much higher for the Ultimate to finally start sounding off in any way to the target than what it took for the 12x10.
Does that mean the 12x10 is deeper? Can't say that, because it might be the Ultimate is more in tune with it's design by running the edge of stable sensitivity instead of at real low settings. Like trying to drive 50mph in first gear versus shifting to 4th. This test, combined with the air test at max sensitivity, *appear* to show the 12x10 is deeper for me, but again in the ground on undug targets it could be a very different story here. Might be the louder voice of the Ultimate begins to make a difference and hit harder on fringe stuff. I can only say that on all marked undug targets with both coils neither showed an edge, but none of this stuff was at the absolute fringe edge of detection depth where that kind of difference (if there is any) between the two coils on depth would begin to show contrast.
Another consideration on depth is sensitivity. I can say the Ultimate was able to run at full blast manual sensitivity with only slight instability at a few sites I hunted, with low EMI and better coil. That tells me it's a well designed coil, because large coils such as this are notorious for not ever having the ability to run at max sensitivity settings. The slight instability at full manual was the normal edge I ride a coil at, so it's at least well able to run at full blast depending on the levels of EMI and minerals present at a given site. That is impressive to me.
By contrast, the 12x10 often could run at higher sensitivity levels than the Ultimate, due in some situations to EMI, and in other situations due to minerals. If the coil is held still and it chatters it's an EMI issue, but if it only gets unstable or nulls when being swept around that's a mineralization issue. I have seen both reasons as to why the Ultimate could not run as high in sensitivity as the 12x10. That's not a knock on the Ultimate, because the SEFs have a reputation of being more immune to both EMI and mineralization than typical coils out there.
One final point on depth potential and contrast of the two coils- Many times I would mark a target at depth with the Ultimate that I was pretty confident was going to be a deep wheat as it gave a solid hit from any direction. But when I checked the target with the 12x10 it was then obvious to me it was an iron coin spike, or it was a piece of junk, due to the 12x10 showing an unstable ID from various directions that roamed a bit, thus telling me it was probably an odd shaped piece of junk, or in the case of a false coin hit from iron I could hear the ghostly traits and various distinct sound offs other than "coin" that told me what I had here. Now, could be the Ultimate just has a different language I haven't learned yet to watch for trash versus treasure, and I didn't find it's occasional being fooled to be a real big issue to me. Most of the time it would tell me a target was junk with no problem.
And, we can flip that "problem" on it's head and look at the potential advantages it might have. How so? It could be that at fringe depth a coin will be more easily IDed as "all coin" on the Ultimate, where as on the 12x10 it might be a bit more iffy on the hit. That is total and complete speculation. I'm just saying that what you might consider a small weakness of the Ultimate might in some ways turn out to be an advantage in some situations.
Another small/minor negative to the Ultimate? It doesn't slide over field stubble as well as the 12x10. For sure I'd need to use a solid home made coil cover from corruplast for field or woods hunting with it. Not a big deal. Ten minutes cutting out and zip tying on a piece of corruplast and we're in business.
I didn't compare it to the 12x10 in this one respect, but I can relate that the Ultimate might be one heck of a cache or large relic hunter. One day I was using pin point mode to PP a target, which I never really had done much before, and when I laid the detector down I found the Ultimate was sounding off easily in PP mode to my digger, pointed at the coil to present less of a target, and from well behind the end of the detector shaft. That impressed the heck out of me, but as said I didn't compare that to the 12x10 so I am not saying the Ultimate is better at it. Just that I could see myself popping some targets larger than coins at some pretty shocking depths with this thing using PP mode.
Another small negative point about the Ultimate? I hate the white color. Even though I've babied this coil since it's a loaner, it's looking rather worse for wear. I understand Detech makes versions in black too now, but I don't know if Kellyco has those in stock. Not really a big issue, because when I get my Ultimate if it's a white one I'm painting it top and bottom with spray on bed liner. I saw a WOT coil done that way to hide it's orange color and it was one outstanding looking coil. I always ditch the coil covers on my coils anyway and use 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner on the bottom/sides to protect it and save several ounces of weight, plus the hassle of cleaning under coil covers.
Speaking of coil covers, that's another tiny complaint here. The Ultimate's coil cover is not very sturdy looking. It has a distinct lip too halfway up the side of the coil with a large gap that easily lets dirt get in. I also noticed the bottom of the coil isn't covered completely by it. A few of the spokes on the coil are not covered, and they contain empty chambers on the bottom I can see wet sand or dirt caking up into. Before I paint the bottom of mine with spray on bed liner, I plan to fill those gaps with Gorilla Glue, which is a light weight glue that foams up when mixed with water so it's very light. Then I'll paint over that with the spray on bed liner. Problem solved.
One final very small complaint about the Ultimate. It's not rated waterproof, which I suspect means it's not epoxy filled and reason why it's so light for a coil of it's size? For that reason, even though I have read of a few Excalibur users using it in the water, I would be very afraid to to so myself. If I did though, I'd be sure to seal under the coil cable nut with silicone and tighten down that nut just a bit beyond hand tight. One pin hole leak in that coil and it might be the end of it.
While on the subject of water hunting, a few beach hunters have noted it isn't as stable as the 12x10 on some salt water beaches. Again, the SEFs are a hard standard to beat in terms of stability in bad soil, so that doesn't necessarily mean the Ultimate isn't a very stable coil. At least in my mineralized beaches and soil sites, the Ultimate impresses me with it's stability. Just that it's not quite as stable as the 12x10. I've also noticed the 12x10 seems to ride in and out of bad EMI or ground patches without as much of a "harsh ride" through a slight bout of instability, where as the Ultimate seems to get a little more upset when it hits such an issue and bangs you around a little more while getting, I guess you could say, back on the road so to speak, but in no way am I saying it's not a very stable coil. Just a little rougher around the edges in terms of stability compared to the 12x10 in certain situations.
As for pin pointing. The center of the coil is easy in PP or disc mode with the Ultimate, just like the SEFs, but using the tip of the coil at least right now is much easier with the SEFs. The Ultimate, as somebody has already said before, has a much more broad response across the entire span of the front of the coil. Could be though that this too would become much easier once I got to know the coil.
So my recommendation? If you already own a 12x10 then I'd add this coil to your line up for covering larger areas such as open fields or large beaches. You'll feel a little more "free" and faster in your coverage. If I already has a 15x12 though I wouldn't add the Ultimate too, but still they ARE different beasts all together so you might still want one in your line up. For heavier trash areas I'll stick with the 12x10, but for areas I suspect deep coins...Well, can't say if the Ultimate is deeper or not, but I'll be sure to bring it out on those days, if only to have a different feel of a coil on a different day. Like eating the same kind of sandwich every day, everybody gets bored with that, so I found it very refreshing to use the Ultimate as being "different" in feel and function somewhat, even if I don't know what it might or might not do better yet.
Which reminds me...The Ultimate already had a reputation among FBS guys to hitting coins on edge well, just like the 12x10 and 15x12 do. I found this to be true for myself as well. The Ultimate is at least as good as the 12x10 at banging hard at coins on edge IMO. Better? Again, that would be a hard hurdle to jump, so I'm not going to say that until I see some kind of contrast on undug targets head to head. Don't see how it could get any better than the SEFs in that respect, so even if the Ultimate was slightly better at coins on edge, would I even be able to notice much of a difference?
I asked the owner of the Ultimate if they'd be willing to trade me my S-5 for it. Never heard back so I assume that's a big "NO!" No matter, as I plan to get my hands on one before Kellyco runs out of current stock by perhaps Christmas or something. I'll do what I have to do to come up with the cash, because I want this coil in my line up for days I'm in the mood, and want to continue to explore it's comparisons in depth and unmasking and on edge ability to my 12x10. In closing, I'll just say that the Ultimate just "feels right" on the shaft and puts you in a "let's do this!" type of mood when you hunt. For that reason alone it's kind of an emotional boost which might give you an edge in some ways. Perception and attitude is everything IMO in success in the field. Don't get me wrong once again, the 12x10 is a wicked looking coil and really makes you feel armed for bear with it on the end of the shaft, but the Ultimate gives you a different kind of feeling too. Like pulling the big white Cadillac out of the garage when the weather is right.
If anybody has any questions I didn't address feel free to ask, and if you are shy about public postings feel free to shoot me a PM, as I've seen plenty of that from people over the years and understand wanting to fly under the radar...
Distilled right up front the reason for that is this- The Ultimate I feel is different and unique enough in it's own way to not be replicating my 12x10 for certain land hunting situations. Where I fee the Ultimate has it's place is for large open fields or wide open beaches when I'm trying to grid out a large area faster. While the 12x10 is a nice improvement in coverage over the 10" Tornado, I find the Ultimate at 13" wide and 12 & 1/2" long makes coverage even more effortless. I find myself not having to hold back my steps to insure I cover every inch of ground in front of me without as much "thought" as I have to with the 12x10 or 10" Tornado. For that reason alone the Ultimate is a real joy to use in large open areas.
The 15x12 I owned also did that as well, but the Ultimate is lighter and feels more "right" on the end of the shaft then the 15x12 for me, even though the 15x12 is still lighter than the 10" Tornado if you remove the coil cover. Something about the round shape of the balance, even though it weighs the same as the 12x10 without a coil cover, just makes the Ultimate feel "lighter" on the end of the shaft. While I feel the 15x12 was a more stable coil, I feel it replicated the 12x10 in too many respects to where it would feel as if I'm using two of the same kinds of coils in my line up, where as the Ultimate is so distinctly different in certain ways and traits that I don't feel I'd be duplicating my 12x10 by also owning an Ultimate, while I would feel that way if I brought another 15x12 back into my line up. Hope you know what I mean here. Not saying the 15x12 isn't a good coil. Just that it'd be like owning two identical vehicles in my driveway when I'd want one for certain things (like say a truck), and another for other things (like say a car).
So of the strengths of the Ultimate? Besides it's great feel and balance on the shaft, and besides it's easy as pie coverage without as much thought at holding back my steps, the next strength would have to be that it makes targets at depth louder. Not that the 12x10 has any trouble making stuff at depth plenty loud enough to hear. Just that the Ultimate makes things louder than even that. Whether that translates into harder hits at depth than the 12x10 I'm not sure either way on, because thus far in all marked target head to head testing the Ultimate and the 12x10 have both seen targets at depth equally well to each other. I have yet to mark a target that one or the other hit better on. I would in particular recommend this coil to anybody with hearing problems, if even with the volume on your Sovereign all the way up and using good headphones, your hearing is so bad that you'd prefer even more volume. If that's the case then the Ultimate is your coil for that. The 12x10 is louder than the 10" Tornado, but the Ultimate is even a bit more so.
Now, does that translate to more depth? Haven't seen it myself yet. Not even sure if it's as deep as the 12x10 in my soil. Only thing I can offer is this depth wise- In careful repeated air testing the 12x10 time and time again showed me about a half inch more depth. And that was with both coils running stable at full blasted sensitivity, so it wasn't an issue with how high sensitivity was for either coil.
I can also add another test, where I buried a clad dime at 6 or 7" and then slowly lowered sensitivity with the 12x10 until I could no longer get ANY kind of response from the target at all. I then, without touching the dial, threw the Ultimate on and it couldn't hear it either, and as I then raised sensitivity it had to be much higher for the Ultimate to finally start sounding off in any way to the target than what it took for the 12x10.
Does that mean the 12x10 is deeper? Can't say that, because it might be the Ultimate is more in tune with it's design by running the edge of stable sensitivity instead of at real low settings. Like trying to drive 50mph in first gear versus shifting to 4th. This test, combined with the air test at max sensitivity, *appear* to show the 12x10 is deeper for me, but again in the ground on undug targets it could be a very different story here. Might be the louder voice of the Ultimate begins to make a difference and hit harder on fringe stuff. I can only say that on all marked undug targets with both coils neither showed an edge, but none of this stuff was at the absolute fringe edge of detection depth where that kind of difference (if there is any) between the two coils on depth would begin to show contrast.
Another consideration on depth is sensitivity. I can say the Ultimate was able to run at full blast manual sensitivity with only slight instability at a few sites I hunted, with low EMI and better coil. That tells me it's a well designed coil, because large coils such as this are notorious for not ever having the ability to run at max sensitivity settings. The slight instability at full manual was the normal edge I ride a coil at, so it's at least well able to run at full blast depending on the levels of EMI and minerals present at a given site. That is impressive to me.
By contrast, the 12x10 often could run at higher sensitivity levels than the Ultimate, due in some situations to EMI, and in other situations due to minerals. If the coil is held still and it chatters it's an EMI issue, but if it only gets unstable or nulls when being swept around that's a mineralization issue. I have seen both reasons as to why the Ultimate could not run as high in sensitivity as the 12x10. That's not a knock on the Ultimate, because the SEFs have a reputation of being more immune to both EMI and mineralization than typical coils out there.
One final point on depth potential and contrast of the two coils- Many times I would mark a target at depth with the Ultimate that I was pretty confident was going to be a deep wheat as it gave a solid hit from any direction. But when I checked the target with the 12x10 it was then obvious to me it was an iron coin spike, or it was a piece of junk, due to the 12x10 showing an unstable ID from various directions that roamed a bit, thus telling me it was probably an odd shaped piece of junk, or in the case of a false coin hit from iron I could hear the ghostly traits and various distinct sound offs other than "coin" that told me what I had here. Now, could be the Ultimate just has a different language I haven't learned yet to watch for trash versus treasure, and I didn't find it's occasional being fooled to be a real big issue to me. Most of the time it would tell me a target was junk with no problem.
And, we can flip that "problem" on it's head and look at the potential advantages it might have. How so? It could be that at fringe depth a coin will be more easily IDed as "all coin" on the Ultimate, where as on the 12x10 it might be a bit more iffy on the hit. That is total and complete speculation. I'm just saying that what you might consider a small weakness of the Ultimate might in some ways turn out to be an advantage in some situations.
Another small/minor negative to the Ultimate? It doesn't slide over field stubble as well as the 12x10. For sure I'd need to use a solid home made coil cover from corruplast for field or woods hunting with it. Not a big deal. Ten minutes cutting out and zip tying on a piece of corruplast and we're in business.
I didn't compare it to the 12x10 in this one respect, but I can relate that the Ultimate might be one heck of a cache or large relic hunter. One day I was using pin point mode to PP a target, which I never really had done much before, and when I laid the detector down I found the Ultimate was sounding off easily in PP mode to my digger, pointed at the coil to present less of a target, and from well behind the end of the detector shaft. That impressed the heck out of me, but as said I didn't compare that to the 12x10 so I am not saying the Ultimate is better at it. Just that I could see myself popping some targets larger than coins at some pretty shocking depths with this thing using PP mode.
Another small negative point about the Ultimate? I hate the white color. Even though I've babied this coil since it's a loaner, it's looking rather worse for wear. I understand Detech makes versions in black too now, but I don't know if Kellyco has those in stock. Not really a big issue, because when I get my Ultimate if it's a white one I'm painting it top and bottom with spray on bed liner. I saw a WOT coil done that way to hide it's orange color and it was one outstanding looking coil. I always ditch the coil covers on my coils anyway and use 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner on the bottom/sides to protect it and save several ounces of weight, plus the hassle of cleaning under coil covers.
Speaking of coil covers, that's another tiny complaint here. The Ultimate's coil cover is not very sturdy looking. It has a distinct lip too halfway up the side of the coil with a large gap that easily lets dirt get in. I also noticed the bottom of the coil isn't covered completely by it. A few of the spokes on the coil are not covered, and they contain empty chambers on the bottom I can see wet sand or dirt caking up into. Before I paint the bottom of mine with spray on bed liner, I plan to fill those gaps with Gorilla Glue, which is a light weight glue that foams up when mixed with water so it's very light. Then I'll paint over that with the spray on bed liner. Problem solved.
One final very small complaint about the Ultimate. It's not rated waterproof, which I suspect means it's not epoxy filled and reason why it's so light for a coil of it's size? For that reason, even though I have read of a few Excalibur users using it in the water, I would be very afraid to to so myself. If I did though, I'd be sure to seal under the coil cable nut with silicone and tighten down that nut just a bit beyond hand tight. One pin hole leak in that coil and it might be the end of it.
While on the subject of water hunting, a few beach hunters have noted it isn't as stable as the 12x10 on some salt water beaches. Again, the SEFs are a hard standard to beat in terms of stability in bad soil, so that doesn't necessarily mean the Ultimate isn't a very stable coil. At least in my mineralized beaches and soil sites, the Ultimate impresses me with it's stability. Just that it's not quite as stable as the 12x10. I've also noticed the 12x10 seems to ride in and out of bad EMI or ground patches without as much of a "harsh ride" through a slight bout of instability, where as the Ultimate seems to get a little more upset when it hits such an issue and bangs you around a little more while getting, I guess you could say, back on the road so to speak, but in no way am I saying it's not a very stable coil. Just a little rougher around the edges in terms of stability compared to the 12x10 in certain situations.
As for pin pointing. The center of the coil is easy in PP or disc mode with the Ultimate, just like the SEFs, but using the tip of the coil at least right now is much easier with the SEFs. The Ultimate, as somebody has already said before, has a much more broad response across the entire span of the front of the coil. Could be though that this too would become much easier once I got to know the coil.
So my recommendation? If you already own a 12x10 then I'd add this coil to your line up for covering larger areas such as open fields or large beaches. You'll feel a little more "free" and faster in your coverage. If I already has a 15x12 though I wouldn't add the Ultimate too, but still they ARE different beasts all together so you might still want one in your line up. For heavier trash areas I'll stick with the 12x10, but for areas I suspect deep coins...Well, can't say if the Ultimate is deeper or not, but I'll be sure to bring it out on those days, if only to have a different feel of a coil on a different day. Like eating the same kind of sandwich every day, everybody gets bored with that, so I found it very refreshing to use the Ultimate as being "different" in feel and function somewhat, even if I don't know what it might or might not do better yet.
Which reminds me...The Ultimate already had a reputation among FBS guys to hitting coins on edge well, just like the 12x10 and 15x12 do. I found this to be true for myself as well. The Ultimate is at least as good as the 12x10 at banging hard at coins on edge IMO. Better? Again, that would be a hard hurdle to jump, so I'm not going to say that until I see some kind of contrast on undug targets head to head. Don't see how it could get any better than the SEFs in that respect, so even if the Ultimate was slightly better at coins on edge, would I even be able to notice much of a difference?
I asked the owner of the Ultimate if they'd be willing to trade me my S-5 for it. Never heard back so I assume that's a big "NO!"
No matter, as I plan to get my hands on one before Kellyco runs out of current stock by perhaps Christmas or something. I'll do what I have to do to come up with the cash, because I want this coil in my line up for days I'm in the mood, and want to continue to explore it's comparisons in depth and unmasking and on edge ability to my 12x10. In closing, I'll just say that the Ultimate just "feels right" on the shaft and puts you in a "let's do this!" type of mood when you hunt. For that reason alone it's kind of an emotional boost which might give you an edge in some ways. Perception and attitude is everything IMO in success in the field. Don't get me wrong once again, the 12x10 is a wicked looking coil and really makes you feel armed for bear with it on the end of the shaft, but the Ultimate gives you a different kind of feeling too. Like pulling the big white Cadillac out of the garage when the weather is right. If anybody has any questions I didn't address feel free to ask, and if you are shy about public postings feel free to shoot me a PM, as I've seen plenty of that from people over the years and understand wanting to fly under the radar...
